Bible Back In Schools

[dakini]

My reply was to Becpa. Did I post incorrectly? I think that the Bible has historical value and is worthy to be studied. My joke was that the schools have time for all kinds of other social engineering...
I have no problem with homosexuals recieving an education. I do not wish for my tax money to teach children that this is a "healthy lifestyle choice". I used to work in a high school. The administration had a policy of allowing students to leave to go to planned parenthood and rides were provide if needed. This was all done without parental consent. Public schools are anti-God. That is why they are turning into such hell holes.

Thank you for clarifying your post. Becba has a point however. Just as you point out that some schools go overboard in condoning free access to planned parenthood services she is aware of some over kill of teachers inappropriately offering to pray for her in a condescending way. No one wants to be pushed around I think is the common ground we all share.

It does not interest me that homosexuality be taught in the schools as a "healthy lifestyle choice" unless the child is a gay child. If I were the parent of a gay child then you can bet I would make sure the school system would treat my child fairly and I would make sure my child was not treated as "less than" or "mentally ill" because some Christians feel that way. I would not want my child to be bullied of my child were "different" in some fundamental way.

The school system has a serious problem with bullying and it is not just gay children who are targeted. I would feel the same way that a child who is a Christian in a predominantly Muslim school or vice versa be safe from harm.

I have mixed feelings about the idea of the Bible being taught in school. If the climate were more cooperative instead of it being about who can dominate or overpower the other side I would be very wholehearted about the idea that the bible be included in study for its historical contribution to civilization.

The idea that public schools are anti-god "hell holes" seems exaggerated to me. When parents are actively involved in the public schools and work cooperatively with the school board and teachers the schools function healthier.

I have great interest personally in religion, spirituality, reason and learning to respect our citizens with equanimity. This is a very interesting topic that I haven't made my mind up on yet.

 

[reb]

becba & mabel-- RIGHT ON!! thank you for keeping alive the voice of reason.

what makes me sick about religion is that EVERYONE thinks their religion is "the" RIGHT religion. and their god is "the" RIGHT god. and religions end up spending more time argruing about whose god is the "one" god, and whose way is the "right" way, and next thing you know we have a world full of wars. (oops-- looks like we do!)

in this country where schools can barely get enough money to keep running water and heat going, and they can't even pay teachers a living wage... why in the heck do we think that there is room to be teaching religion??? again, HELLO----- THAT IS WHAT CHURCH (AND HOME, IF THAT IS YOUR CHOICE)--- IS FOR. we have a country full of kids who can't spell, can't speak english, can't add, don't know jack about history, and we are going to start squeezing in RELIGION?? give me a break. school is the ONE neutral place where kids can be without having this or that religion shoved down their throat. plus, you start teaching the bible, and you're going to have to start teaching the koran, kabbalah scriptures, the book of mormon, or the divine church of the flying spaghetti monster, etc. etc. etc... and how you christians feel about that? and, where does it end??

even inside christianty alone-- i can see it now-- all the different sects and splinter groups will just end up arguing and bickering about "whose version of christianity is the right one"-- baptists against methodists, pentecostals against catholics, church of christ against the new church of christ.. etc. etc. etc... it will just be pure insanity.
and public schools are the ONE place people can go to get away from all that.

no one is depriving or denying anyone from learning about religion in their own free time if they want to. but school is for READING, WRITING, MATH, HISTORY, SCIENCE, ART, MUSIC, etc. etc. you wanna study religion?? go to a PRIVATE religious school, or take theological classes in college, or do it in your spare time.

please, keep your religion in your private life and you can do whatever you want. but DO NOT impose it upon others!!!!!!!!!

 

[IrishMist]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Reb!!
:woohoo:

 

[reb]

ella, there are countless other reasons that a lot of public schools are turning into such "hellholes" besides being "anti-god". our society has changed drastically in the past 100 years or so and there are many complex reasons-- social, psychological, economical, etc. etc... that our world as we knew it has disintegrated. it's it's not as simple as so many people think- that we've "turned away from god".

and again, WHICH "god" are you referring to, anyway....???

 

[Ella]

I wonder what you think we should teach homosexuals? That they are abnormal? Bad? What should they do with their future? Suicide?

Now, that is a subject I believe should be taught at home. I am not anti-homosexual. But it is a life style that is any thing but healthy. I would promote abstinence for all students. Sexuality should be a private thing. I really do not appreciate anyone who wants to be defined by who they have sex with.

 

[dakini]

It might be that I have lived in states that do not require parental consent for abortions. I would rather not give the name of the districts. These are small towns, with open secrets they like to keep. I know that teens could bring in a note that they had signed, saying they had been to planned parenthood. I know many students used this excuse for excused absences. I remember planned parenthood coming into my high school and teaching us how to put a condom on a cucumber. I was underage and I can guarantee you my parents would have hit the roof had they known.

Ella,

Some parents are signing the notes for their teenagers to go to Planned Parenthood. And you may be interested to know that for someone who cannot afford to get gynecological services due to income they see women wholistically for their healthcare.

As a teen, I did have medical cause to see a Gyn/MD and it was not for contraception. Because I was raised by my single father, I was not comfortable discussing such needs with him.

Luckily I was referred by a school nurse. In those days, I was pretty repressed and these were not easy health needs to discuss. I would not wish the suffering of that experience or those times on any other teenage girl.

As a young woman I found my way to PP and was always treated respectfully by Planned Parenthood. Just wanted to give them a positive plug because they take alot of heat.

If I had a sexually active teenager inspite of having educated the child to wait until adulthood I would be damn happy he or she learned how to put a condom on in order to be protected from STD's.

Welcome to WS by the way.

 

[Ella]

Dakini,
I am glad your experiences were positive ones. I am a pro-lifer. But that is not my reason for being opposed to planned parenthood and for parental consent laws. Many abortions are performed on minors who have been impregnated by an adult male. People like you, want to protect kids, but not everyone is so concened. I think Planned Parenthood, being the largest abortion provider in the US and making millions from abortions, has a conflict of interest when it comes to protecting children.

 

[reb]

dakini, bravo.... and yes planned parenthood is a lifesaver for so many people... especially when you grow up in a conservative religious home where these things are just not "discussed" and parents think it's OK to keep their children ignorant.

how can parents think that sex ed is a bad thing?? if they were doing their job at home like they were supposed to, then school health teachers wouldn't have to pick up the slack, and they wouldn't have to teach it at school. teaching religion is NOT going to stop kids from having sex.. and not much else is, unfortunately. but education and knowledge will at least give them a chance to make smarter decisions and protect themselves, their health, and prevent a pregnancy before they are ready. WHY is that such a horrible thing.....?

 

[concernedperson]

The bible is a great source for stories and much a part of history. Planned parenthood has done more for this country than most organizations.

 

[deanws]

:clap:

It's about time...

Amen :blowkiss:

 

[dakini]

Planned Parenthood does not provide abortions. They do counsel women and they may refer a woman if she chooses.

 

[deanws]

The crusades are taught and my son did learn about different religions in school as did I.
We were both taught to identify the beliefs of different religions which I think everyone should learn. Yes religion and war go hand in hand.
But I was actually reffering to the original posts article saying:

"But in recent years, as evangelical Christians have grown in numbers and gained political clout in the United States, Bible studies have been creeping back into schools."

That kind of stuff has no place in schools. It is personal and I and my 2 sons both were occassionallly set out from others in school due to our beliefs. Teachers condescendingly saying "I'll pray for you" because you are not Christian is a form of predejuice. (sp)
And for the one who said not all kids can get a ride to church. Specific Bible studies can be taught at home and churchs are always giving bus rides to pick up kids for church.
Aside from history which should focus equally and without judgement on all religions, church and school are seperate and 2 very different things.

I don't see anything wrong with having someone tell you they will pray for you. Doesn't harm you in anyway. I pray for people all the time. Just because they say that to you, doesn't mean you have to believe what they believe. If you say you don't believe, that doesn't harm me either.

 

[deanws]

And who will ensure that this is the basis on which it is taught? President Bush?

:slap:

 

[dakini]

:slap:

hello my friend

there is nothing wrong with it but the fact that someone is telling you its offensive to them and if you continue you are being insensitive and disrespectful which does not sound like you

 

[reb]

deandanielle,

i hear what you're saying- however-- unfortunately, most christians seem to use the "i'll pray for you" thing as another way to make themselves feel superior to everyone else. it's pretty much an insult or a putdown, more than a genuine statement of caring. what they really are saying is, "i'll pray for you to see the error of your ways so you can become a christian like me".

so, it's clear they really are not unconditionally loving like they say their god is, nor do they see themselves on the same plane as everyone else. they are more interested in having a superiority complex.

 

[concernedperson]

deandanielle,

i hear what you're saying- however-- unfortunately, most christians seem to use the "i'll pray for you" thing as another way to make themselves feel superior to everyone else. it's pretty much an insult or a putdown, more than a genuine statement of caring. what they really are saying is, "i'll pray for you to see the error of your ways so you can become a christian like me".

so, it's clear they really are not unconditionally loving like they say their god is, nor do they see themselves on the same plane as everyone else. they are more interested in having a superiority complex.

Reb, that is a pretty rough statement. I so hope you are wrong.

 

[deanws]

hello my friend

there is nothing wrong with it but the fact that someone is telling you its offensive to them and if you continue you are being insensitive and disrespectful which does not sound like you

I agree. If someone says to me "no thank you" I get the message. I don't think prayer should be used as a way of making someone who does not believe feel shame. If that is the case, then of course, that is just acting like a bully. As for some religions who say they are the "only ones" going to heaven......:laugh::laugh:. I think there will be plenty room for all. JMO. :innocent:

 

[deanws]

deandanielle,

i hear what you're saying- however-- unfortunately, most christians seem to use the "i'll pray for you" thing as another way to make themselves feel superior to everyone else. it's pretty much an insult or a putdown, more than a genuine statement of caring. what they really are saying is, "i'll pray for you to see the error of your ways so you can become a christian like me".

so, it's clear they really are not unconditionally loving like they say their god is, nor do they see themselves on the same plane as everyone else. they are more interested in having a superiority complex.

If that is the game they are playing....then it is a joke. If I say I will pray for you, I mean that I will pray for you. I DON'T pray....Dear God...make them see life as I see it. I pray more along the lines.....Dear God, please keep my friend safe, take care of their needs, bless them and give them joy, health, and peace of mind. Something along those lines. If a person is hiding behind the word "CHRISTIAN" just to act superior...then they don't have a clue about what that word really means. :blushing:

 

[dakini]

I agree. If someone says to me "no thank you" I get the message. I don't think prayer should be used as a way of making someone who does not believe feel shame. If that is the case, then of course, that is just acting like a bully. As for some religions who say they are the "only ones" going to heaven......:laugh::laugh:. I think there will be plenty room for all. JMO. :innocent:

I thought that was your feeling dee, just had to check.

Sometimes its best to just pray silently and not to announce it, if it will cause a problem for someone. Its more important to have a positive intention towards another being.

IMO.

Some do use the gesture "I'll pray for you" as an arrogant putdown, and they have no Christlike qualities in evidence. Just a big fat ego with alot of judgment. Others say I'll pray for you and I know I am loved for who I am and its just a very sweet and kind gesture of unconditional friendship.

You know how it is. I am sure you know "Christians" with no qualities, that you would prefer not pray for you, but maybe pray for themselves, that they "get it" about what Christ really taught.

 

[Cypros]

I agree with teaching ABOUT the Bible and the role of Judeo-Christian religion in the world ALONG WITH other ancient literature, mythologies and religions. Students today are lacking in their awareness of the great classical literature, including the Bible, and this is reflected in their lack of understanding of history and our cultural roots in the Mediterranean and the Middle East. If the Bible is being taught as one aspect of all of these traditions and influences then I am all for it. If they are only interested in teaching the Bible and Christianity, then tell the kids to go to church!