Bobbi Kristina Brown found unresponsive in bathtub. #2

[K_Z]

Yes, doctors know what her body temp was when she was brought in. Even from before that - from when EMT began treating her.
Yes, blood would have been drawn and immediately analyzed.
Yes, they would know if there were drugs present - what kind and how much.
Yes, they would know if there was water in her lungs at the time of initial intubation. Or from anecdotal accounts of those who performed CPR on her.
Yes, they would have performed EEGs on her. Many of them by now.
YES, they would have performed numerous other tests on her to determine brain functionality.

Regarding family members seeing "signs" of improvement, this is a common phenomenon with families of comatose patients. There are reflex body movements and eye movements that can happen with a comatose patient. Family members who come to visit and talk to the comatose patient often mistake these reflex movements as a "response" from the patient. Unfortunately that is not what is going on.

Respectfully snipped.

Agree quite strongly with all of this.

BK has had every possible test that is relevant to her care and situation, at this tertiary care university hospital filled with specialists, IMO.

Doctors know EXACTLY what her condition is at this moment in time. They know what multiple EEGs have shown, her intracranial pressure, Doppler studies, her MRIs, her cerebral blood flow studies, whether drugs were involved in her presentation, how long CPR was in progress from time of arrival, presenting rhythms, and much, much more.

They have not been standing around wringing their hands for 3 weeks while the ventilator pumps away, "wondering" what's going on, and how damaged neurologically she is. And I am equally sure that everything they know has been shared with family. This is a tertiary care university medical center with highly specialized ICUs, and at least TWO neuro ICU's.

http://whsc.emory.edu/home/multimedia/videos/neuro-icu.html

I'd like to correct some misinformation above about the oral endotracheal tube she had. It's extremely unlikely that she has had "the same, original" endotracheal tube this entire time. It's probably been exchanged at least once or twice-- not uncommon at all. The cuffs sometimes develop a leak, other plastic parts deteriorate, etc.

As far as the tracheostomy-- I think it only signals that they are going to keep on going with her care at this point. Many patients in her condition get a trach in the first week, as it becomes evident that they will not be extubatable in any brief amount of time. That it was placed relatively late in her ICU course is actually not a good sign, or a sign of improvement, IMO. There are a LOT of wildly inaccurate comments in earlier media articles today-- yeesh! I think they probably also placed a permanent g-tube as well-- trach and g-tube are often placed simultaneously. If her gut is functioning, not infarcted or anything, they can probably begin tube feeding, if they haven't already.

My prediction is that she will be moved out of ICU very soon.

 

[Gracenote]

When they told me my mother was dead after her open heart surgery, I asked if they could put her back on the heart/lung machine. (no) I would have done anything, anything to have her still with me, even as a nearly lifeless pet. I was not ready to let go but the decision was out of my hands. I understand if Bobby feels that he can't lose his daughter. It's quite possible that he simply loves her.

 

[K_Z]

My opinion, and I know it isn't popular, is that she is, unfortunately, permanently and irreversibly neurologically damaged to at least a PVS state, if not brain dead. I don't think she will ever recover to any significant degree, even to getting off a ventilator. Sadly, there is really very little realistic hope of any kind of recovery here, IMO.

All the commentators are being "soooooo careful" to not say anything realistic about what's going on. Sometimes I wonder if Sanjay Gupta is really even a doc-- because he does not talk like any medical specialist I have ever met. He sugar coats EVERYTHING, IMO. Maybe because of liability issues for CNN or something, or maybe just minimizing what he knows to be true, out of respect. He downplays everything serious he comments on, not just in this situation, IMO.

BK is in a devastating, dire situation. I'm sorry to be that blunt, but anyone with a serious amount of health care and ICU experience will agree. Drowning, arrest at the scene, 3 weeks of coma-- there is just nothing at all about this situation that should prompt false hope in people who are not her closest loved ones. They are devastated, and in denial, and that is completely understandable. I have great compassion for any family in that situation. But those of us much further removed from the emotion, and the exquisitely painful circumstances of her situation, can be more objective about what's going on.

I agree with Katydid's ICU friend above-- they have "brought her out of" whatever medically depressed state she has been in-- probably several times.

The specialists know exactly what her situation is right now.

It's a hard, hard truth, but sometimes people are more broken than we are able to fix.

 

[shana]

Even someone withOUT health care and ICU experience agrees with your take, K_Z...and that would be me.

Based on what I could glean from the timetable of events from the beginning, I have felt persistently sad and sorry that the outcome for BK was and still is grim.

Thank you again for your info and insight, so valuable and necessary for my understanding to endorse why I felt as I did from the gate.

~jmo~

 

[AlwaysShocked]

"When they told me my mother was dead after her open heart surgery, I asked if they could put her back on the heart/lung machine. (no) I would have done anything, anything to have her still with me, even as a nearly lifeless pet. I was not ready to let go but the decision was out of my hands. I understand if Bobby feels that he can't lose his daughter. It's quite possible that he simply loves her. "

First of all, gracenote, my condolences for your loss. And thank you for your honestly in writing this.


I don't know how long it has been since your mother passed, but could you please comment about how you feel now about keeping a loved one on machines as "an almost lifeless pet"? I wonder what you would have to say to the Brown family if you had the opportunity to talk with them.

IMO each of us has the right to live and the right to die with dignity. Keeping someone hooked up to various machines with a body that has ceased to function is really not very respectful of that loved one, IMO.

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I agree about Dr. Gupta. When he first started I really respected him and watched for his reports. But nowadays, he has been "media-ized".

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Another peeve of mine: The National Enquirer bashing that goes on. Yet everyone reads their articles, don't they? In this case they have presented an exclusive interview with someone who brought forth relevant information about this case. They are well known for vetting their sources pretty thoroughly, including administering lie detector tests at times. (I don't know that they did that for this story, but they have done it for other stories and have included the information within the story that the person passed the lie detector test.)

NE has been accurate with many, many of their stories over the years. Do I believe every single thing they say is gospel truth? No, not always. But I don't think it is because they want to print lies, I think it is due to faulty source information.

 

[Elley Mae]

My opinion, and I know it isn't popular, is that she is, unfortunately, permanently and irreversibly neurologically damaged to at least a PVS state, if not brain dead. I don't think she will ever recover to any significant degree, even to getting off a ventilator. Sadly, there is really very little realistic hope of any kind of recovery here, IMO.

All the commentators are being "soooooo careful" to not say anything realistic about what's going on. Sometimes I wonder if Sanjay Gupta is really even a doc-- because he does not talk like any medical specialist I have ever met. He sugar coats EVERYTHING, IMO. Maybe because of liability issues for CNN or something, or maybe just minimizing what he knows to be true, out of respect. He downplays everything serious he comments on, not just in this situation, IMO.

BK is in a devastating, dire situation. I'm sorry to be that blunt, but anyone with a serious amount of health care and ICU experience will agree. Drowning, arrest at the scene, 3 weeks of coma-- there is just nothing at all about this situation that should prompt false hope in people who are not her closest loved ones. They are devastated, and in denial, and that is completely understandable. I have great compassion for any family in that situation. But those of us much further removed from the emotion, and the exquisitely painful circumstances of her situation, can be more objective about what's going on.

I agree with Katydid's ICU friend above-- they have "brought her out of" whatever medically depressed state she has been in-- probably several times.

The specialists know exactly what her situation is right now.

It's a hard, hard truth, but sometimes people are more broken than we are able to fix.

bbm, It's popular in my neck of the woods, I value honest knowledgeable answers in these situations, Thanks for your contributions here.

 

[Coldpizza]

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