Bosma Murder Trial 05.12.16 - Day 48

[Errrr]

I wonder if the Bobcat owner ever got it back.

I hope it belonged to the mafia.

 

[Wondergirl]

Yes, he is. And there's enough evidence that they're also going directly to trial. This murder was 10 months before Tim's. That's a long time for "scared, confused" MS to develop a closer and closer bond with DM.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...-to-trial-in-death-of-laura-babcock-1.3225820

Thank-you. I somehow missed this detail. That's what I get for not hanging out on WS much anymore! Geez.

Is the jury privy to the fact that MS is charged in LB's murder? I'm assuming no. Of course he's innocent until proven guilty, and charges do not indicate guilt.

I wonder what evidence LE has on him in that case?

MS has admitted to being involved in death of TB. Like TM in VS case - I see both accused guilty - although I admit I do see MS in a lesser degree of pure evil than DM. But on the other hand - evil is evil and wrong is wrong.

So many people involved in covering up this crime. Wtf. Why didn't MS sister call LE? DM's mother involved in wiping prints? These people should be haunted the rest of their natural lives with their inaction.

Shame on them.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

Thank goodness for Schlatmans father. Good grief.

JMO

WG

 

[Ontario_girl]

Yes. DM is easy, I won't even explain that.

MS is guilty. I would dismiss most of his testimony, because I think it is untruthful and self-serving
That leaves me with:
-him posing with guns
-knowledge of the mission
-told to bring a change of clothes
-referring to the mission as "fireworks"
-texting fireside furniture and sausages to DM in the middle of mission discussion
-celebratory (or happy) mood of DM and MS per MM following the mission
-direct participation in a great deal of the cleanup
-not going to police at any time
-asking for the drugs and "the other thing" and then getting rid of the gun


I'm sure there's more. Some of those things can be explained, but it becomes unreasonable to find an explanation for each one. Put them all together and I firmly believe that MS knew that murdering and incinerating Tim was the plan and was a willing participant, even if he didn't do the shooting.

MOO

Dont forget that MS also has admitted to being there when it all went down which can also be used against him.

Another thought... Isn't that considered an admission of fact to the court? And if so, it's new evidence which may allow DM the chance to open his case again. No?

 

[CJPRINCESS]

I have a question for you. Or anyone here who believes MS story (personally I'm on the fence right now until after cross etc so I'm not judging your stance in any way)

But, if DM had've got on the stand first, and recited the jailhouse letters as he rehearsed, would your feeling be the same about MS?

Yes I would still feel the same because his letter literature wouldn't have changed even if he was to recite them himself.

 

[Georgeo]

Trial on for 15 minutes on Monday, no court on Tuesday, full day on Wednesday (10 am - 4 pm with breaks and lunch), 15 minutes on Thursday, and done for the week !?!? At this rate, it will drag on for another 4 months....

 

[meterclicks]

That will change when DM gets on the stand and tells the jury that MS carried the gun into the truck. DM had no place to conceal it. SB already testified he wasn't wearing a man purse.

DM will maybe say that MS had the gun in the Yukon and when they stopped he went up to the truck's driver's window. DM rolled it down. MS raised the gun and shot TB, the bullet passing in front of DM. That is the only way that I can see TB wouldn't have been able to reach at the gun and try to get it away.

TD stopped the story short. He didn't question MS about what went on between burying the gun and getting arrested. He didn't ask him about what was said during the famous call from CN. TD planned to ask more questions, but didn't. Something changed. I wonder if the Crown was offering a lesser sentence AATF, but they withdrew it because MS's testimony didn't offer enough new evidence.

Implying that TB did or didn't attempt to reach for the gun is way too much. Do we need to even go there?

 

[JuneBug67]

I wonder if the City of Oakville ever got their woodchipper back.

Serious point for a sec...the litany of theft evidence yesterday gave me one of my occasional surges of sadness and empathy for DM. When you're a privileged person stealing things you can't even identify you're probably sick with something. It was one of those times when I imagined a really difficult emotional history for DM as a child. It won't surprise me at all if we eventually find out there was something there in his past, something sad and destructive.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Trial on for 15 minutes on Monday, no court on Tuesday, full day on Wednesday (10 am - 4 pm with breaks and lunch), 15 minutes on Thursday, and done for the week !?!? At this rate, it will drag on for another 4 months....

Where did you get this information?

 

[don_quixote]

I understand it as he no longer has that option because he declined to present any evidence or testify when it was his turn. Not that his testimony won't do him any good (although I don't believe it could.....) MOO


ETA - if you check out SC's twitter she explains to a question about why Crown/Dungey say DM won't be allowed to testify (I know I can't post it here....but it's specific and cites a case)

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 7m7 minutes ago

I guess we'll see. Not sure any "unexpected" evidence came from Smich's testimony. That's the test. #Bosma

Of course there is a lot of new evidence. Not that all are necessarily truthful and credible. But they will be considered. Among them are

1. That MS was not planning a homicide
2. That there was no 3rd person
3. That no restraints were applied to the victim at least until after they picked up the Yukon (that may help MS avoid 1st degree and get AATF)
4. That DM left the keys in Yukon (could indicate that DM planned this scenario)
5. That there was at least one shot fired in the truck (that hit the window)
6. That DM was in the truck when the shooting happened
7. That Tim Bosma died or was severely injured during the time he was in the truck with DM
8. That DM was in possession of a handgun soon after the shooting
9. That ultimately Tim Bosma died at their hands.
10. That DM owned guns in general and Walther PPK in particular
11. That it was DM who was operating the incinerator (and this is extremely important, as it completes the possible causes of death, IMO)
12. That MS and DM did dispose of some evidence

And there is more to come, such as,
a. Did MS help to clean out the incinerator and what happened to the ashes
b. What was the tape for
c. What is "the orange guy"
d. What was the "sausage evidence" about
e. What happened to Tim Bosma's wallet and documents
f. Why was there blood on the trailer walls
g. Why was there blood in the truck bed
h. Specifics of the wound that he may have seen
i. Details of conversations with Tim Bosma
etc

 

[RandomName479]

I have a question for you. Or anyone here who believes MS story (personally I'm on the fence right now until after cross etc so I'm not judging your stance in any way)

But, if DM had've got on the stand first, and recited the jailhouse letters as he rehearsed, would your feeling be the same about MS?

I honestly don't think that I would give any credence to anything DM had to say....I will admit to being biased by the jailhouse letters.....his planning and plotting have made me not prepared to believe anything out of his mouth. Even if he testifies now, I will see it as a last ditch attempt because of what MS has testified to.

Before MS took the stand I would have found him guilty of 1st degree murder. For me, MS seems to be credible....his story mostly rings true to me, it lines up with evidence (I know it can be argued conveniently so.....but he has added details that we had not heard before....that don't help him in any way - like swapping the plates on the Ram). I honestly don't know what to think. MS's testimony today DID NOT ring true to me.....so I'm firmly seated on the fence....hopefully the cross will help me decide one way or another.....but right now I have enough doubt of his guilt that I would have a hard time finding for first degree.

All MOO.

 

[cckp72]

Serious point for a sec...the litany of theft evidence yesterday gave me one of my occasional surges of sadness and empathy for DM. When you're a privileged person stealing things you can't even identify you're probably sick with something. It was one of those times when I imagined a really difficult emotional history for DM as a child. It won't surprise me at all if we eventually find out there was something there in his past, something sad and destructive.

No doubt something happened to him. If his father was a big shot, probably was absent a lot and I read somewhere he was very stern. The mother - as far as we can tell - has no integrity and is possibly an alcoholic. My personal guess is that he didn't get a lot of love and nurturing as child. The whole eating dog treats at school really has me believing he was looking for attention and to 'stand out'.

With this bunch of losers he hung around with, he must have felt powerful, likeable. The harsh reality is that noone liked him - they liked his money and drugs and what DM could provide.

How a person - even with a troublesome childhood - turns into a cold blooded murderer is beyond my comprehension.

MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

But, THIS



Nice summary redheart.

But, IMHO, it's not just good enough to say the guy is lying- a Juror has to make that call. MS did address the change of cloths- that was usually a precursor to a theft. To paraphrase his evidence, he said that you didn't want to wear the same thing during and after the theft. It was just something they did. Missions? Those were the thieving missions he assisted DM with- and lots of those didn't involve DM's other pals, IIRC, just MS and DM were involved. The fireworks and the fireside furniture is the most interesting. IMHO, TD didn't touch on these things for a reason- I'm thinking he's fully aware of what they relate to. Perhaps the fireside furniture was something that MS had scoped out for DM and maybe they always lit fireworks off after a successful mission or something. Whatever it is, the fact that TD didn't touch on it and left it open for the Crown and DM's D, gives me reason to think that there's a legit reason behind both of these things. TD doesn't seem to be the type of lawyer who would leave loose ends like that. Now, it's just another hurry up and wait until next Monday!! arghhh MOO

 

[ArianeEmory]

Where did you get this information?

I think the poster is referring to this week.

 

[JuneBug67]

Yes I would still feel the same because his letter literature wouldn't have changed even if he was to recite them himself.

Totally agree. My own fairly certain conviction that DM is psychopathic came from his own words to Molly Hayes about jail house visits being "precious" and "might as well accuse me of going to the moon, there's nothing real about it", along with his letter to 'D'. It's all so textbook manipulative psychopath right down to the big, showy egregious lie. Hearing his own words delivered by him would surely simply deepen the impression because psychopaths can't maintain the correct emotional tone of a situation over time because they don't really understand emotion other than to recognize and manipulate it in others.

 

[Elisabeth]

That was a lot of lead up to nothing. Odd place to leave off.

Maybe Dungey wanted to split the testimony into (1) yesterday - longer day and a lot of people here believed him and (2) today, very short day, but a lot of people here find him not believable..

Will (1) stay in jurors minds?

 

[Georgeo]

I think they wanted to give the legal interns a chance to read WS to find out what issues might need to be addressed before closing.
WS is a great resource for lawyers to gauge the mindset of a theoretical jury.

And the parking lots are getting lots of revenue for these 15-minute court sessions, as I'm sure people have to pay minimum charge even if it is only a short stay.

What prevented court from moving along on Monday and Tuesday? MS team knew they were calling witnesses obviously, and it's not like Dungey didn't have 3 years to prepare for the trial!!!

And why only 15 minutes today? Pillay surely knew his turn at cross-exam was coming up, and MS didn't really come out with any whoppers of testimony this morning in the 15 minutes he was on the stand!!!!

 

[RandomName479]

Thank-you. I somehow missed this detail. That's what I get for not hanging out on WS much anymore! Geez.

Is the jury privy to the fact that MS is charged in LB's murder? I'm assuming no. Of course he's innocent until proven guilty, and charges do not indicate guilt.

I wonder what evidence LE has on him in that case?

MS has admitted to being involved in death of TB. Like TM in VS case - I see both accused guilty - although I admit I do see MS in a lesser degree of pure evil than DM. But on the other hand - evil is evil and wrong is wrong.

So many people involved in covering up this crime. Wtf. Why didn't MS sister call LE? DM's mother involved in wiping prints? These people should be haunted the rest of their natural lives with their inaction.

Shame on them.

It's never too late to do the right thing.

Thank goodness for Schlatmans father. Good grief.

JMO

WG

I agree with you on many things....the number of people who knew what happened and did NOTHING is beyond my comprehension....

BBM - was actually his father in law (not that it really matters....) BUT he only called CrimeStoppers and WOULD NOT disclose the location of the truck. From what I understand it was the Lucas Bate phone which led LE to Igor, which led to the tattoo description, which led to DM. AJ only went to the police AFTER the police came to the hangar.....I understand he was scared for his family, but I'm not giving him a gold star for honesty. MOO

 

[cckp72]

I agree with you on many things....the number of people who knew what happened and did NOTHING is beyond my comprehension....

BBM - was actually his father in law (not that it really matters....) BUT he only called CrimeStoppers and WOULD NOT disclose the location of the truck. From what I understand it was the Lucas Bate phone which led LE to Igor, which led to the tattoo description, which led to DM. AJ only went to the police AFTER the police came to the hangar.....I understand he was scared for his family, but I'm not giving him a gold star for honesty. MOO

Riddle me this - we have been told time and again that LE wasn't familiar with DM previously. How were they able to track him down via the tattoo?

 

[ArianeEmory]

But, IMHO, it's not just good enough to say the guy is lying- a Juror has to make that call. MS did address the change of cloths- that was usually a precursor to a theft. To paraphrase his evidence, he said that you didn't want to wear the same thing during and after the theft. It was just something they did. Missions? Those were the thieving missions he assisted DM with- and lots of those didn't involve DM's other pals, IIRC, just MS and DM were involved. The fireworks and the fireside furniture is the most interesting. IMHO, TD didn't touch on these things for a reason- I'm thinking he's fully aware of what they relate to. Perhaps the fireside furniture was something that MS had scoped out for DM and maybe they always lit fireworks off after a successful mission or something. Whatever it is, the fact that TD didn't touch on it and left it open for the Crown and DM's D, gives me reason to think that there's a legit reason behind both of these things. TD doesn't seem to be the type of lawyer who would leave loose ends like that. Now, it's just another hurry up and wait until next Monday!! arghhh MOO

Yeah, I'm really curious how the fireside furniture and MM's report of their morning behavior will be addressed. No way it doesn't come up. And those are the two big sticking points for me.

As far as their mood being 'happy' the next day, unfortunately with the way she changed her word choice I don't know what to picture. I could picture DM being celebratory that he had a truck--and I could picture MS being punch-drunk from a night of no sleep and weed and adrenaline burnout and horror, the latter assuming he has a conscience. The two texts, however, are a problem (for me, and I assume for his defense).

 

[Georgeo]

Where did you get this information?

Twitter feed from all the media that has been tweeting.....