Bosma Murder Trial 05.12.16 - Day 48

[Arnie M]

Brendan Daly testified Smich was normal until Thursday night. Likewise Marlena. And then there was the celebration in the car, Marlena described. I don't remember offhand who has given WEdnesday May 8 as the moving date . They were still at Smich's mother's house on Thursday when Smich ran past Daly and didn't speak to him. Smich supposedly had doctor's appointments Wednesday. Also the money for the lawyer came after Millard's arrest.

You bring out a very good point that if MS' demeanor was "normal" in the days immediately after May 6 it ruins his testimony of being shocked and afraid

 

[JuneBug67]

Same page, and I also agree I wish we knew more about the LB case. People have speculated that he might have ended up with an item belonging to LB. Would they have charged him on something that thin? Did DM throw him under the bus? MS seems to have split a lot of us regulars right down the middle, so I imagine it's having a similar effect on the jury.

(Still unsure. I'm going on gut instinct as well, but I generally prefer to use my brain if at all possible. I can't quite separate out my near-hatred of DM and his supporters after all these years, which makes anyone else look so much better by comparison. But that's no way to make an objective decision, and I'm not sure how much that bias is affecting my "gut" feeling about MS not being a psychopath.)

Clearly none or almost none of us are actually qualified to diagnose anybody as a psychopath or anything else, but that hasn't stopped me from calling DM one 8 million times. It does come from a reasonable lay background of extensive reading and interest in the subject over the years though, and for what any of it is worth (maybe not much) I don't think there is a basis to think MS is psychopathic. It's a very specific constellation of behaviours and things that are absent that should be present and MS just doesn't fit that profile, while DM is literally a textbook case in my mind. MS may have been a low-life, doped out criminal willing to kill for money or a brotherly bond, but there is very little to suggest psychopathy. I think it's probably more than gut you're going on, and I think it naturally translates to a willingness to believe, if the evidence were to fit, that Mark Smich may have not have been culpable in the same way as DM.

 

[canadiangirl]

Just to add to this and I'm in no way defending either party. People, especially ones who are used to lying a lot, tend to believe their own stories.

It is quite possible to convince yourself something is fact when it really isn't.

All comments are JMO unless stated otherwise

 

[CJPRINCESS]

And this is why people need to remember media are normal people like everyone else and are not experts. Although they have sat in on probably way more cases then any average person has the time for, at the end of the day they have their own versions and not everything they say is gospel.

Yes I understand that and I'd sure would suck at being a Journalist. BUT there was absolutely NO version in this trial that ever said "SS removed the window". We also know, it was the passenger side window that was shattered (or bullet hole as per MS) NOT the windshield. We have heard that SS tried to remove the windshield from the RED Ram but didn't know how and gave up. TB'S trucks windshield WAS intact when LE found it.

I sometimes wondered if some people are following this trial because I've been seeing so many misinformed posts lately. I followed AC only for the first week but since I was missing a lot of information, I started following the other tweets here on the trial threads. But AP, I find myself skipping as she seems to make more mistakes the the rest and without correction.

 

[JuneBug67]

Mild satchel confusion: was DM wearing the satchel at his arrest, or did they find it in a washer? I think I'm conflating some memories of Jodi Arias here.

There was one in his washer (for sure) and one somewhere else, I think in the Yukon. The one with the trace amount of blood on it wasn't the one that was in the washer (I think), and I think perhaps not the one video suggests he was wearing in the hangar video. I may be garbling this, but my memory of all that testimony from here without checking for accuracy was that the one he was wearing was in the washer and the one with the unidentifiable trace amount of blood was found in the Yukon.

 

[ArianeEmory]

There was one in his washer (for sure) and one somewhere else, I think in the Yukon. The one with the trace amount of blood on it wasn't the one that was in the washer (I think), and I think perhaps not the one video suggests he was wearing in the hangar video. I may be garbling this, but my memory of all that testimony from here without checking for accuracy was that the one he was wearing was in the washer and the one with the unidentifiable trace amount of blood was found in the Yukon.

Wow, this is a third option I hadn't considered, and apparently passed me by in those testimony days.

Hmm, actually, one of these memories of DM grabbing his satchel when approached by LE must have been when they first spoke to him--not when he was arrested.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

There was one in his washer (for sure) and one somewhere else, I think in the Yukon. The one with the trace amount of blood on it wasn't the one that was in the washer (I think), and I think perhaps not the one video suggests he was wearing in the hangar video. I may be garbling this, but my memory of all that testimony from here without checking for accuracy was that the one he was wearing was in the washer and the one with the unidentifiable trace amount of blood was found in the Yukon.

I'd have to look it up again as well. I remember it the opposite way. 2 satchels, 1 in washer with blood stain, looked to be washed, so DNA was too diluted. The second satchel was on DM when he was arrested.

In regards to the satchel found at Maplegate. I believe this was the one in the washer.

Adam Carter
Feb 29 2016 4:11 PM

Court now seeing a canvas diesel shoulder bag that was seized from 5 maplegate drive in Etobicoke. A blood stain was found on the bag.

Adam Carter

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Wow, this is a third option I hadn't considered, and apparently passed me by in those testimony days.

Hmm, actually, one of these memories of DM grabbing his satchel when approached by LE must have been when they first spoke to him--not when he was arrested.

Yes, that was at the hanger when LE questioned him then SS.

 

[Arnie M]

I've always had issues with this scenario myself. Surely TB would have been suspicious from the moment they pulled into the field (assuming they did) and how would DM have persuaded him to go on such a long drive (if he did)?

A possibility that did occur to me (and it's only that) is that with his famous charm and persuasiveness that we know from other testimony DM has when he chooses to turn it on, he expressed genuine interest in the truck, said something about taking it for a longer spin to be sure (I can see TB being keen on such a possible resolution to his truck issue!) and then, maybe well before they got to Brantford but while en route, perhaps on a back road, TB pulled out his phone to text SB that he'd be late and DM overreacted with the consequences we know of. Then he waited to do something about the situation till they got to the Brantford site, which he was probably familiar with.

There would be no reason for TB to agree to an irregular process unless he was convinced a sale was in the works. That could have been the "hook."

So much of what you said is what I have been thinking too .... DM could easily have told TB he liked the truck , wanted to buy it , and wanted to extend the test drive (maybe even to the farm) and I bet TB would not object because he was anxious to get it sold.

And just like you suggested , TB would most likely want to call his wife to let her know he would be late .... and at that moment DM realized he could not let the call go through and kaboom !!!

I have no doubt DM planned to harm TB , but not while they were driving , that would also fit with the panic pullover on Oak Point road to change plates and shut off TB's phone

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'd have to look it up again as well. I remember it the opposite way. 2 satchels, 1 in washer with blood stain, looked to be washed, so DNA was too diluted. The second satchel was on DM when he was arrested.

Ah, so he falls back to an alternate satchel because he got blood and maybe GSR on the primary.

 

[JuneBug67]

You bring out a very good point that if MS' demeanor was "normal" in the days immediately after May 6 it ruins his testimony of being shocked and afraid

It's consistent with his testimony of trying to act normal and trying not to tell MM what he didn't have to. Shocked and afraid can be an internal experience, until something externalizes it like a sudden fear of discovery and arrest. It's about witness memory and perception as well. Witnesses may have been more attuned to MS once they became actively aware of trouble brewing.

 

[ArianeEmory]

So much of what you said is what I have been thinking too .... DM could easily have told TB he liked the truck , wanted to buy it , and wanted to extend the test drive (maybe even to the farm) and I bet TB would not object because he was anxious to get it sold.

And just like you suggested , TB would most likely want to call his wife to let her know he would be late .... and at that moment DM realized he could not let the call go through and kaboom !!!

I have no doubt DM planned to harm TB , but not while they were driving , that would also fit with the panic pullover on Oak Point road to change plates and shut off TB's phone

Thanks for pulling this post up to the top. This definitely "clicks".

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Aftwr all that MS has admitted to on the stand, what does he benefit by not telling where the gun is?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

 

[flipflop]

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden Übersetzung anzeigen
"Do you know where today that gun would be?" Dungey says. "No, I don't," Smich says. #TimBosma #Bosma

bbm
At the moment I read his/this answer I was convinced MS was lying. Too short, too explizit for an answer of him who yesterday answered in another form somehow. That "No, I don't" disappointed me.

Yesterday, MS had me convinced, I found him believable. Today, I'm not sure why or what, but something has changed. Everything seemed like a coverup or a lie. His answer about the gun location was very quick. Even saying, exactly where he buried it along the creek somewhere off of Speers Road (or whatever the closest road was) would have been better than "no I don't". Does this mean he didn't bury it, did he sell it?????

 

[ArianeEmory]

Aftwr all that MS has admitted to on the stand, what does he benefit by not telling where the gun is?

Sent from my SM-A500W using Tapatalk

Can't think of a reason. Since he already admitted handling it, doesn't seem like it would be about fingerprints or DNA.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Things to consider IMO:
MS has turned his life around & got his GED while incarcerated & is going to college. MS's mom has cancer and he had no father . MS was afraid of DM because he looked like a lunatic so went along with it all. MS was so traumatized by it all that he now has post traumatic stress disorder. The PTSD is what is causing him to have memory lapses and his bum shoulder made it impossible to help DM physically with the "mission". DM is a lunatic and was temporarily insane and MS was afraid of him. DM & MS were under the influence of drugs and not themselves most of the time which all contributed to their murderous crime spree. MS couldn't go to police because he had a criminal record and didn't think he would be believed. Bleeding hearts can go ahead and bleed. I choose to focus on the Bosmas who lost their everything.

Most of what MS said in his testimony does sound believable. That doesn't make anyone a bleeding heart, nor does it negate the hell the Bosma family went through (and will continue to go through for the rest of their lives). It is actually possible MS is telling the truth about how it went down that night.

moo.

 

[Elisabeth]

Aftwr all that MS has admitted to on the stand, what does he benefit by not telling where the gun is?

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he benefits by not pissing off the seller.

 

[JuneBug67]

I'd have to look it up again as well. I remember it the opposite way. 2 satchels, 1 in washer with blood stain, looked to be washed, so DNA was too diluted. The second satchel was on DM when he was arrested.

In regards to the satchel found at Maplegate. I believe this was the one in the washer.

Adam Carter
Feb 29 2016 4:11 PM

Court now seeing a canvas diesel shoulder bag that was seized from 5 maplegate drive in Etobicoke. A blood stain was found on the bag.

Adam Carter

Yes, dug back as well and found that you were correct. The bag recovered in the washer had no DNA, and trace blood on it of an indeterminate source (not definitively human) and no GSR. Testimony was that washing could remove some or all DNA and GSR. The bag: https://twitter.com/AdamCarterCBC/status/704677689513385984/photo/1

The satchel recovered in the Yukon was described as 'beige' and yielded nothing in testing. I remember there being some discussion here that media has misidentified the bags in some way - called the one that was not the Diesel the Diesel or something like that. Also, I found no testimony that the one he was wearing in the hangar video was either one or the other, so maybe that was something proposed on WS but not testified to.

ETA: Beige satchel on front seat of Yukon...not sure if there is a better pic...http://images.scribblelive.com/2016/2/17/1c4ba80c-ef35-4720-925f-62e63c230bf7_800.png

 

[canadiangirl]

Most of what MS said in his testimony does sound believable. That doesn't make anyone a bleeding heart, nor does it negate the hell the Bosma family went through. It is actually possible MS is telling the truth about how it went down that night.

moo.

There is just so many holes and questions left unanswered at this point I find it difficult to see how <modsnip> suddenly believes a man who didn't come forward until yesterday. I am doubtful he found it in his heart to do the right thing at this point in time. He's trying to save himself. JMO

 

[canadiangirl]

he benefits by not pissing off the seller.

The buyer?