Bosma Murder Trial 05.16.16 - Day 49

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
iveyguy said:
My theory is that CN & DM were talking/texting around the time of his arrest (conversations not referenced in this trial as they are evidence in CN's trial) and CN knew first hand that DM had been stopped by police -- and after not hearing from him for ~90 minutes, CN correctly assumed that DM had been arrested (rather than just pulled over for a traffic violation) and sounded the alarm bells. But she wasn't 100% sure of the arrest because she still tried calling his phone about an hour after she "told MS" that DM was arrested. No one was 100% sure he was arrested, but connected the dots after learning that he has been stopped by police and hadn't been heard from since. Therefore the question of "when did X find out DM had been arrested?" is murky... does it mean when did you suspect he was arrested or when did you find out officially? That's why I think no one has a straight answer here.

A quick refresh of timeline to support my theory:
7:35 pm Approx. time Millard's vehicle boxed in by police
8:04 pm Noudga messages Millard: "hellooooo?"
9:09 pm Noudga messages Smich.
9:10 pm Noudga messages Millard: "call me."
9:12 pm Noudga calls Millard. No answer.
9:13 pm Smich (Meneses phone) calls Noudga. Call lasts 245 seconds. Noudga claims he told her, "**** went down."
9:20 pm Smich (Meneses phone) calls Michalski.
9:20 to 10:50 pm Voice calls b/w Smich and Michalski about Millard's arrest, Smich tells Michalski to get drugs out of Maple Gate.
9:22 pm Noudga calls Michalski.
10:07 pm Noudga calls Millard. No answer.
10:23 pm Michalski calls Noudga.
10:28 pm M. Burns calls Noudga.
10:33 pm Noudga calls M. Burns.

Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml#
Click to expand...

Did MM testify that she talked to Noudga? I can't remember her ever saying she talked to CN. That would be pretty relevant would it not? I searched in her testimony but could not find anything.
 
FromGermany said:
I want to see a pic of him!
Click to expand...

On the left...

11gq5ah.jpg

Defence lawyers representing Dellen Millard, Nadir Sachak, left, and Ravin Pillay, arrive at the John Sopinka Courthouse in Hamilton, Tuesday.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...nts-match-thumb-print-found-in-bosma-s-truck/
 
Gibson67 said:
Did MM testify that she talked to Noudga? I can't remember her ever saying she talked to CN. That would be pretty relevant would it not? I searched in her testimony but could not find anything.
Click to expand...
She did not. On Day 38, she said that MS found out about DM's arrest and starting frantically making phone calls on her (MM's) phone. The 9:13 pm call (~4 minutes long) could have involved CN & MS discussing & concluding that DM had been arrested... and thus both CN & MS could technically claim that the other person "told them" about the arrest if you take their words out of context.
 
Gibson67 said:
sorry but Smich is lying..he has been writing down everyone's testimony and listening carefully throughout the trial and knows what evidence they have against him, he is just concocting a story to go with what he has heard in this trial..funny he has a story for I ****ed up and now says that Dell was the ? pfft come on!!!!
Click to expand...
I can only guess he meant "'s coming to get me", not in the plural sense. His grammar hasn't been impeccable so it's anyone's guess. IMO.
 
Kamille said:
If his lawyer believed in his story 3 years ago, he would have recommended that he co-operate with and speak with LE, including the truth about the gun, to avoid the 1st degree charge and try to plea out to a lesser charge.

Instead, they waited for discovery and then the trial to tell his "story". That does not indicate that either a) MS is telling the truth or that b) TD acted in his best interests 3 years ago. I personally would go with a).

And I have defended MS in the past. Gave him the benefit of the doubt that he got caught up in something that was DM's plan gone wrong. I was expecting a very truthful "story" from him with a no holds barred cross. Not just a regurgitation of only the facts that are in evidence and a lapse of memory for everything that isn't. His testimony is not working for me. While I think he probably was not the shooter, I think he knew what was going to go down that night and that he was a lot more involved in the planning and the aftermath.

We still have not heard what the dollar figure was that DM had promised him for this mission. MM testified that he'd already received a "down payment" of sorts...of $300. But I believe that she testified that he was expecting more than that. Hence the quick grab for all the drugs after his arrest I suppose? To get his "payment" one way or the other? And this testimony, about an amount promised for this mission, is the one thing that makes me question whether MS may actually have been a "hired hitman" to take care of the truck owner during the theft.

MOO
Click to expand...

Had to step away this afternoon to actually work, so just catching up now. ^^^^^^^^^ Totally agree with this take in things, Kamille and I'm glad you had the energy to write it! I'm too tired to say much after reading all the tweets and comments. I wonder how much longer DM's defence counsel will drag out their cross?

One thing I will say about MS, whatever the truth is about his involvement in this crime, I do get the impression that he deeply regrets it now. It's too bad he didn't serve any time before in jail (that I know of) for his other more minor crimes because had he spent some time behind bars he may have had second thoughts about risking his freedom again.

All MOO.
 
Arnie M said:
He is doing it on purpose because he knows MS will not tell the truth where the gun is.

And the questioning is not designed to find the gun , it is designed to ruin MS credibility as a witness , and that is exactly how it is working out.

The questions may sound stupid but they are clever .... for example ....

Sachak asks if Smich camped out in the forest that night and roasted Marshmallows. "No I didn't bring any marshmallows with me," Smich says.

Notice how easily MS can recall he did not bring marshmallows to the forest .... yet he keeps saying he doesn't remember anything because he was stoned and drunk. This is a good lawyer and he is just getting stared. If he can undermine MS credibility it undermines MS testimony that DM did everything. That is the whole purpose.
Click to expand...

100% in agreement. By the time Sachak finishes, MS will have zero credibility. And after that, the crown will take MS's credibility further down, reaching negative credibility.

The risk of an accused taking the stand is on full display. Esp a lying accused. IMO
 
Gibson67 said:
Did MM testify that she talked to Noudga? I can't remember her ever saying she talked to CN. That would be pretty relevant would it not? I searched in her testimony but could not find anything.
Click to expand...

Lol, she said she was riding her bicycle while talking to MS. But couldn't remember much of anything else! I think she was lying.

I'm going though the testimonies, I'm sure someone will find it before me. But im pretty sure I remeber someone saying CN talked to MM and it wasn't MS'S testimony. I could be wrong but I'll keep looking.
 
meterclicks said:
Smich says they probably hung out, and he might have given him a couple of smokes. "He was prepared to do illegal errands for you," Sachak says. "If I asked him to go get me a pick of cigarettes he'd go do that too," Smich says.
by Adam Carter 4:01 PM

Smich says Arthur was a "good kid" without many friends, so he let him hang around. "You did him a favour to bring drugs to you?" Sachak says.
by Adam Carter 4:02 PM

Sachak says Smich must have said he was surprised to get the toolbox. Smich says that wasn't his reaction.
by Adam Carter 4:03 PM
Click to expand...

Why do all of these men keep referring to themselves as kids?
 
So this is MOO only. I believe MS. If it was dark and I wasn't looking for landmarks to find the gun again, I could understand why he can't remember where it is. All trees and paths look the same in the dark esp if he walked a bit into the forest. I truly believed he was guilty at the beginning of the trial but I am having some serous doubts. Some one who is lying trips up, but he is being very consistent in his testimony, which makes me feel like he is telling the truth.

A few weeks ago I posted that they said "hey look there is my buddy, do you mind dropping MS off and they can follow for a bit? and then when they got to the bobcat dealership MS saw that DM killed TB." I was having doubts then and after his testimony I believe he is more guilty of AATF. If I am having doubts I am sure some on the jury are as well. Again all MOO
 
CJPRINCESS said:
Lol, she said she was riding her bicycle while talking to MS. But couldn't remember much of anything else! I think she was lying.

I'm going though the testimonies, I'm sure someone will find it before me. But im pretty sure I remeber someone saying CN talked to MM and it wasn't MS'S testimony. I could be wrong but I'll keep looking.
Click to expand...

From billandrew's spreadsheet:

"May 10 9:13 pm Smich (Meneses phone) calls Noudga. Call lasts 245 seconds. Noudga claims he told her, "**** went down."

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml
 
CJPRINCESS said:
Lol, she said she was riding her bicycle while talking to MS. But couldn't remember much of anything else! I think she was lying.

I'm going though the testimonies, I'm sure someone will find it before me. But im pretty sure I remeber someone saying CN talked to MM and it wasn't MS'S testimony. I could be wrong but I'll keep looking.
Click to expand...

well CN testified she talked to MS
MS testified he did not talk to CN and that CN talked to MM
MM did not testify that she talked to CN (why would she not say she had if she did)
I tend to believe MS did call CN back on MM's phone.
IMO
 
Trying to just post some thoughts, not a reply.
Per testimony today from DM Lawyer Sachat, MS has never given a full statement to LE on what occured during the murder other than to state lawyer advice to remain silent. Is this the first time courst has been told no full statement by MS?
And I guess, DM also did not give a full statement?

So, in DM letters to CN when he called MS, traiturous (or something), it is actually because of what MM said in her LE interview that MS disclosed to her? And DM during discovery would of seen this? As MS would of seen in discovery before trial testimony of witness.
-- Sorry, I have only been following WS on this trial since early March or so. Was TD always the lawyer of record for MS.

I am still on the fence as to MS guilt of first degree. I am of the opinion, it was planned by DM, but something unexpected occured and that shooting TB in the truck was not part of original plan. Two of the dumbest criminals in court history, which IMO is a good thing for the crown.
 
redheart said:
I think Sachak's questioning that involves MS not getting "permission" from Millard or something similar, is to show that MS was not in fear of DM. I think. Sachak really has me scratching my head at times. MOO
Click to expand...

Yes, how could the so called N***a come and get him from behind bars?
 
I think DM's defence did make a good point today with MS about the decision to ask AM to bring all the drugs to him. It suggests to me that if that was truly MM's first concern after DM's arrest to get the weed to smoke, and if MS felt comfortable asking AM to get the drugs from DM's house and bring them to MS, they are all a lot cosier and closer (and lacking conscience) than any of them want the jury to believe. If MS had been really afraid of DM at that time (May 10th) MS had the perfect opportunity to lie low and not get involved further as DM was in custody. They all did get invoked though and they all worked together to get the weed and the toolbox to MS. Was this to protect DM? Maybe MS didn't expect the toolbox with gun(s) inside, but if its contents could only implicate DM in TB's murder, why not hide it (somewhere safe where it could later be found) until MS obtained a lawyer and let his lawyer advise him on what to do with it next?

What if there were 2 guns in the toolbox, one from TB's murder, and the other one from LB and/or WM's murder? Was sending the gun or 2 guns to MS a message from DM that he intended to frame MS in TB's murder and/or a reminder from DM to MS to stay silent because MS was also involved in the murder of LB? DM took the toolbox to MH and told him to hold it for a couple of weeks. Who made the decision to take the toolbox from MH and give it MS and why? I know AM made the call, but at whose instructions? Did AM get a message from DM through the grapevine that DM wanted MS to have it? Or did MS ask for it (and if so how did MS know DM took the toolbox to MH?) or did AM make that decision on his own to give MS the toolbox and if so, why?

Maybe there was a contingency plan about the drugs and gun(s) and what to do with them in the event of DM's arrest and this was all discussed between DM and MS (and perhaps others) during that 50 minute visit just prior to DM's arrest? DM knew, after all, that the heat was on him. I guess MS didn't know about DM's emergency cash fund that was stashed in DM's home or MS would likely have told AM to bring that along to him too? I don't get the sense from either of DM or MS about being in shock over TB's death or fear about being in the other's presence after TB's death, what I sense is deep dread that LE was closing in on them both and they were afraid of being caught and punished.

All MOO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 133 more.
Total: 3,581 (members: 134, guests: 3,447)

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
3,447
Total visitors
3,581
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,566
Messages
17,971,079
Members
228,815
Latest member
Sumner
Back
Top