By Accident Or On Purpose Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

[madeleine]

Just curious, do you have a reason you think Patsy wouldn't have immediately brought John into it, if BDI? I ask, because my problem with the BDI scenario has always been that I do not believe John was involved in the cover up/staging, but became highly suspicious when he saw the RN and eventually obviously entered the long tern cover up. That was my reasoning for always leaning back to PDI.

If BDI, I couldn't figure out a reason why Patsy wouldn't immediately wake John and involve him. OTOH, if she did it, there is very good reason.

MAYBE one wanted to cover the mess up and the other to do the right thing? could also explain why they were so cold to each other after police showed up?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't think the blow to the head was "accidental", but I also don't believe it was done with the intent to murder.

 

[RL2]

I have always believed that PDI. I find it quite probable that PR did all of the staging, writing the RN, etc by herself while JR slept up in their 3rd floor "attic" room.

That said, I CAN, to a lesser degree see BR inflicting the head wound, then PR covering, staging, etc.

I do not think JR was extensively involved. I think he came to the conclusion that it was not an intruder after realizing the RN was written by PR, but only AFTER the police and friends/neighbors arrived that morning. By then it may still have been unclear to him what had actually taken place, he prob didn't know all the details, but he ultimately decides he has no choice but to cover it up long-term (and calls his lawyer ASAP).

I am still 75% PDI (and Burke witnessed this, thus he has never spoken) and 25% Burke did it and PR did all the initial staging/covering up.

 

[RL2]

Thank you for the new poll, Tricia.

After 19 years of fervently believing it was perfect Patsy and Patsy alone, it all makes sense now, thanks to CBS and Dr Phil.

Burke did it.

Maybe after both kids ate pineapple and then snuck down in the basement, using the big flashlight, to look for more presents. Something set him off. The garrote could've been him using one of his Cub Scout practice lashings. The scream could've been Patsy discovering what happened.

Homicide by Burke. Coverup by Patsy. John didn't do anything except slowly understand as the morning progressed.

I can totally see this playing out...
I, too, have always been PDI 100%. But, CBS has proven that we cannot completely rule BR out.

 

[rob]

John was the one that was familiar with knots because of his sailing. Seems he would be the most likely to fashion the garrotte. Also, its widely accepted that Patsy never went to bed as her clothes were the same as the previous night, and her makeup was perfect. John woke up first, so Patsy must have been sleeping still. If that were the case, why would she not change clothes? And lastly, we know now that Burke's voice is on the 911 call, so why did John lie when he told the attending officer that his son was still asleep?

My opinion on your last question- because they hoped if they said he was asleep the whole time, he wouldn't be questioned. MOO

 

[rob]

I have always blamed BR, thinking he hit her with the flashlight and the parents did the rest as cover-up staging. NOW, I think BR did the flashlight and the garrotte and the parents found a situation that was unbelievable and made the wrong decision.

 

[Lilibet]

I always thought Patsy did it in an exhausted rage over toilet issues. I didn't want to think Burke did it, even though he had great reason to be jealous, and jealousy is a powerful emotion leading to terrible actions. But a child? I didn't want to blame a child.

However, after watching the DP interview and the CBS expert panel, I'm convinced that Burke did it. Whether he realized the blow would kill JBR is unknown. But thanks to this discussion, I'm pretty convinced that he also used the garrote, which did kill her. Because there was no blood from the head injury, any parent would have called 911 immediately if they found their daughter unconscious for an unknown reason. Finding her dead with a garrote would stop them from calling 911 immediately IF it was clear that Burke was involved. Then protecting Burke would come first for the Ramseys. I think it must have been clear that no intruder did this for the rest of the coverup to have occurred. I have a hard time thinking that either parent could use a garrote on their child as part of a coverup. Poking JBR with the train track clinches it for me. That's the action of a child. And yes, I do believe Burke sexually abused her, perhaps escalating in the weeks before she was killed when JBR's behavior is said to have changed.

Everything Patsy and John did from the moment the coverup began and for years afterward was intended to protect Burke. They did him a tremendous disservice. We wouldn't still be talking about this had they done the right thing and been honest so that Burke could get help. This was and still is a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

 

[Lamima]

Problem with my thinking that BR did it and PR staged cover up and then JR slowly began to realize it was a cover up AFTER reading RN is that his finger prints are NOT on RN. Did PR yell for him, tell him there was a RN and to read it but then told him not to touch it as he read it because it would be part of police crime scene and not to contaminate? Or was he already in the know at the time of the RN? Could be she had the first one she wrote (the practice one) on the steps and he realized it right away and she told him what happened then and he told her to re-write the RN with gloves on (and had her make changes like just addressing himself).

 

[InstantProof]

Problem with my thinking that BR did it and PR staged cover up and then JR slowly began to realize it was a cover up AFTER reading RN is that his finger prints are NOT on RN. Did PR yell for him, tell him there was a RN and to read it but then told him not to touch it as he read it because it would be part of police crime scene and not to contaminate? Or was he already in the know at the time of the RN? Could be she had the first one she wrote (the practice one) on the steps and he realized it right away and she told him what happened then and he told her to re-write the RN with gloves on (and had her make changes like just addressing himself).

I think he was in the know to some degree. He didn't ask Burke if he saw his sister or anyone in the house, he is annoyed with Burke on the 911 call and he would be part of the "Burke is asleep" staging at this time.

 

[twomommies107]

Does anyone think that JR was in on what was happening the whole time?

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[johnjay]

Does anyone think that JR was in on what was happening the whole time?

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I think John would have been the one who made it clear to Patsy that JBR was dead and there was nothing that could be done to save her.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I never subscribed to the IDI theory. Initially, I thought that Patsy had gone bat@#$% over a late night toilet accident. JonBenet had to be put to bed because she had fallen asleep in the car and didn't go to the bathroom before going to bed. She wet the bed, and Patsy was :stormingmad: because she was tired and a bit tipsy from too much wine at the party. Instead of being able to finish packing for the trip the next day, Patsy instead had to get JonBenet out of wet pajamas, strip the bed, and put on new sheets. I always thought she picked up something heavy in the bathroom or JonBenet's bedroom and hit her hard enough to cause severe or fatal head injury.

After seeing most of all three Dr. Phil episodes and the CBS special on the case, I'm inclined to believe that Burke is the perp, probably an accidental but fatal blow, and his parents went to extreme lengths to cover it up and protect their perfect family image. :moo:

 

[LinasK]

Does anyone think that JR was in on what was happening the whole time?

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Absolutely because I think it was John who sexually abused and killed JB, and Patsy wrote the note. I'm dubious as to what Burke knew/was aware of.

 

[reintarnation]

Does anyone think that JR was in on what was happening the whole time?

I subscribe to Kolar's theory of two hands involved in the staging: one organized (John: calm, collected, business-like) and one disorganized (Patsy: emotional, frantic, etc.).

They also each bring different elements to the staging beyond this. Some elements are very maternal and others seem like someone planning and executing (not premeditated, but more like this happened, this is our goal, so this is what we need to do). Once you sort out what elements you think were and were not staged, you can fit most of these things in one of two categories. Their behavior in the immediate weeks after the fact were similar.

I just don't think Patsy could handle this on her own, not because she wasn't intelligent or capable, but because it was all too much for her. Just look at the 01/01/97 CNN interview: Patsy is obviously medicated, out of it, barely hanging on to her sanity, and at times speechless, having a hard enough time getting out what was scripted let alone answering questions for which she wasn't prepared. John, on the other hand, is only verbally emotional - he's saying the right things, but there's not a lot of genuine feeling or impression that this is difficult for him at all. This reads to me as a mother overcome with grief and suffering emotional turmoil and a businessman who is getting the job done.

Interesting for me is the fact that John was described as being beside himself after his other daughter died, weeping openly, being distraught, etc. Yet we have never seen that behavior out of him for JBR. Perhaps because he is in the public eye and trying to maintain his dignity, but it certainly would have helped his public image. Maybe he thought that would be overkill. Maybe he was genuinely taking the supportive role for the sake of his family. I never thought John caused JBR's death, but always that he participated in the staging. I feel that he made a lot of the decisions about what should be done, giving Patsy jobs to do and coaching the family through this whole thing.

 

[geojeffrey]

I believe it was Burke, and that his actions were probably due to childish jealousy. I believe he struck her intentionally but that he had no intention of killing her.


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[twomommies107]

I believe it was Burke, and that his actions were probably due to childish jealousy. I believe he struck her intentionally but that he had no intention of killing her.


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I agree with this. She was a little pageant queen, so of COURSE her brother is going to be jealous.

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[EA18G]

Santa Clause

 

[Tssiemer]

Santa Clause

I feel like this sometimes. In my weird, rare IDI moments a long time ago I was like "what's better than dressing up as Santa Claus on Christmas to try to kidnap a kid??? They would do whatever you told them too!!"


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[Claudius]

I feel like this sometimes. In my weird, rare IDI moments a long time ago I was like "what's better than dressing up as Santa Claus on Christmas to try to kidnap a kid??? They would do whatever you told them too!!"


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That's a scary thought!!

 

[Madeleine74]

BR in the conservatory kitchen, with the candlestick flash light. IMO he certainly intended to hit her in an act of anger/rage, but did not form intent to kill. PR & JR then did the coverup.