CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #4

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I am sorry. I am sorry you had to live in circumstances that trouble you to this day. I am sorry that you weren't taken care of very well as a child. I am sorry.

Thank you TeaTime, but for some there is an upside and that is I became educated in order to try and understand the cause and effects of this poor treatment and it taught me to never, ever treat others the same way. I still have a short
fuse when it comes to bullies or those that treat others unfairly. I became much stronger because of this and learned to
stand up for not only my rights but for the rights of others. It's all good, thanks.
 
You can listen to Elizabeth Smart read her book on YouTube. I read her book. Jaycee too . Pray I never have to see if I am that strong.

Yes! And I also immediately thought of Amanda Berry and the Ariel Castro case. Definitely not a simple why did they not escape! Sooo many things we don't even know yet about what they were subjected to.


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It's also been mentioned that the youngest was treated way better than the other siblings. She was well fed, as well. There's only 12 malnutrition charges against DT and LT.

IMO, once the children were no longer babies, they were subject to abuse.

I had that thought too. And it is a thing discussed in abnormal
Psychology literature. Can't think of the name of the syndrome but it's one.


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Yes! And I also immediately thought of Amanda Berry and the Ariel Castro case. Definitely not a simple why did they not escape! Sooo many things we don't even know yet about what they were subjected to.


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In this case it would be even harder to escape because this is all these children knew. Amazing that 17 year old managed to do it.
 
Do we know that she was pregnant with that child and not another one one? I'm assuming this photo was from her FB page, so we don't really know the exact time it was taken. JMO, could have been like the Disney pics to keep their family off track of what was really going on.

This [emoji1369][emoji1369]. This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I don’t know, something is just..... off about the gap between Little One 12 and Little One 13 (in addition to all the other “offs”). I’m afraid we are going to be stunned when all the dust settles and the facts are known.


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I wonder what conversations they had amongst each other while in confinement??

Again, my eyes are wide open around me now. Maybe somehow this horrific situation will help others to be rescued somehow, with people being more aware...yes, with all this publicity, I have to think it wI'll make someone stop and look twice...

I hope so, too.
Also, how many times have we heard/read the shocked neighbors say of a recently exposed molester/killer/rapist/etc ( take your choice), "He came from a good Christian family"? Like it's a given that being a perceived or self-proclained Christian = pure of heart, mind and deed. What a convenient hiding-in-plain-sight, no-need-to look-any-further zone that can be!
We, as a society, need to take off our moral blinders by watching people's actions rather that listening to their words. Trust your gut more.
 
I am trying to imagine how things went down once our brave hero escaped. Did the other sister return to the inside of the house? If so, how did she get back in? Were the parents alerted?

In the meantime, did Survivor #8 wait down the street? Was she able to provide an address, or could the dispatcher determine the location from the cell phone? I can't stop thinking about how terrified she must have been while waiting, especially without knowing what the outcome would be.

God bless her!

Somewhere I read she LED the police car to the home, meaning I guess that she met them down the street and went
back to the home with them. Guessing they had her wait in the police car while they called for backup to make
arrest.
 
I have thought about this case in relation to the Ariel Castro case...In the Castro case, I got the feeling the young ladies may have been pitted against each other. They do not appear to have stayed close since their release.

I wonder if these children were also pitted against each other. Were some children informants? If one talked about escape, would another inform the parents? Could all of the children trust the other children? I am sure it was a terrible dynamic.
 
I just discovered the information from CBS in PRINT is different from VIDEO. Their print info is not accurate, and this video clarifies what is happening with placement of the Survivors.
From this video from CBS: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155489552533655&id=108679513654
Riverside Health System Account for donations has raised over $60,000 in the first 24 hours.
Foster families have been arranged, with one home for adult children, another home for minor children.
All of the children will be moved into the foster care system within the next week or two.
 
The process to terminate parental rights is determined in dependency court, and birth parents have the right to contest the termination, she said.

In the short term, the children will be placed in foster care, she said. Foster care parents can opt to become the adoptive parents.

http://www.wfft.com/content/national/470088013.html
 
In general, I don't agree with those who have condemned neighbours, extended family, Elvis*, etc., for not reporting. It's easy for us to say, with hindsight, what they should have done. But the fact is that most people have to cross a huge psychological distance to get from "hmm, that's a bit hinky" to"A crime is being committed and I must report it." This is especially true when whatever's going on involves other people's private lives. We also don't know how the bystanders viewed family relationships in general, or whether they had any reason to distrust the police or social services.

But I do wonder why relatives never checked up on the older kids once they reached adulthood. Did no one think, "Hmm, my niece must have graduated high school by now, I think I'll look her up and try to get to know her without my crazy sister interfering?"

On a vaguely related note - were the older boys registered for Selective Service? If not, did the government follow this up?

* Don't know if anyone on WS has blamed him, but I've seen comments elsewhere that did.

ITA with you!! How is it possible that not one relative suspected something was going on here?!?!?! Also read somewhere up-thread that LE or hospital said they're getting calls from all over the world but no one from the family has called about the kids!! This just blows my mind more and more everyday!!


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If everyone in one county donated just one dollar. Can you imagine!!



Seriously. It's not that hard to not refer to them by their t-shirts which now have a sinister connotation.

I don't care that they're unlikely to read these threads. It's gross.
BBM

A solution has been found and it’s all taken care of thanks to Tricia and AnaPisces’ photoshop skills. :heartbeat:

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I'd sure like to know more about the family that wants to adopt them. Lots of responsibility, plus lots of $ in state aid. Adoption takes time. You can't just agree to adopt without knowing them, and these people want to adopt all 13? Aren't there legal implications to adopting adults? Lets stop calling them "children" when 8 are clearly adults.

One story said all were mentally incapacitated, and the 17 yr old even had a first grade comprehension level. Who are these people who are either saints or are not thinking out this situation? I think social services needs to thoroughly check this.
I'm way behind, but I hope the identities of the people adopting these kids aren't released. The last thing they need is media everywhere.

I think it's possible that whoever is adopting them has met them. They could be medical professionals. I also think they are people with significant resources to care for them. I doubt they even need aid financially. I think we can all trust that this family is not going to just any foster home.

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Taken me days to catch up. Just a couple of thoughts since the DVD collection pictures were posted.
1) The kids didn't know what a police officer was but the parents had full sets of "Everybody Loves Raymond" videos where Raymond's brother is a cop. Of course the sister who lived with the family did say the children were not allowed to watch tv.
2) Given the immaculate shelving and alphabetizing of the DVD collection - I am making a leap here but I would bet those are DT's videos. If he is an engineer (who might or might not be on the spectrum) he most likely would prefer order and structure. The juxtaposition of the DVD collection and the carpets and walls of the old house got me wondering.
3) I highly suspect there is a sexual component to this in conjunction with the torture. Would LT want to keep the children filthy so they would be less "alluring" to DT? She appears to keep herself clean and even the 2 year old.
4) I am guessing that the kids were allowed some sort of normalcy up to the age of maybe 3 or 4 (possibly up to age 7) as some have language skills, and have been taught some "manners" under the guise of deferring to the parent.
5) How did the 17 year old know that a deactivated cell phone could (take pictures?) be used to call 911? Could the older brother who attended a college class have heard or seen something while he was allowed out of the home? If the children did not have access to the outside world (via computer, telephone, television, schooling, playing with neighbors, shopping, attending events other than Disney with parents) just having that tidbit of info must have felt so empowering. They would have had to find a charger to make sure the deactivated phone would have power.
 
There's something about this case that feels quite unusual to me. Not saying it's the first of its kind, just very unusual. It's particularly hard for me in this case to understand the psyche of the parents.

Most (not all) cases you hear about, the abusive parent(s) or guardian(s) present as being extremely out of control or out of their depth themselves. Living in squalor, substance abuse problems, domestic violence, a prior rap sheet. What is freaky about this case is that the 'parents', however terrible they were in the home, were able to present outwardly quite well. A well paying job, expensive hobbies, 'happy' family photographs. Of course we mostly now agree that the children appear malnourished, but they were clearly conniving enough to realize that their friends, family and acquaintances wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

This one also seems quite different to other high profile religious/cult abuse cases. Whilst there was clearly a religious element, it's not like one I think I've seen before. Obsession with Disney and pop culture, not especially modest fashion choices (the mother's bridal dress(es), heavy make up).

It just strikes me as a case unlike any other, and there is so, so much to unpack to make sure something (especially at this scale) can't happen again.
 
Not sure if this has been posted. I got it off of a link on another article that has been posted.
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/in-the-minds-of-criminals/
Really clear explanation of the process the survivors will go through, with LE, to uncover what happened.
The former FBI profiler being interviewed said she expects there is a sexual component to the depravity, which will be revealed in time.
She also said she would be very surprised to find that all of the children were LT's children.
 
What they are talking about today is a CBS report, posted earlier in this thread, that indicates a volunteer had come forward to foster and adopt all 13 and that it could happen as soon as Monday. We hope that report is inaccurate.

I can’t find it ... does anyone recall where this CBS report has been posted (last thread or earlier?) or can be found online?

thank you for clearing up some of my confusion, Doghairrules. I will keep looking because I must have missed that one.
 
According to the criminal complaint, which provided a very specific date range, victim #8 was sexually abused between November 2012 to November 2013.

She was born in 2001, so the abuse began when she was 11 years old and lasted at least until she was 12. They had not yet moved to the Perris CA house, but would within one year after the end of the abuse noted in the complaint.

Matching up some victims' DOB's with circumstances when they were 11-13 years old, looking for ( theoretical) patterns:

Victim #1, DOB 1988, was 11 years old in 1999, the year they moved to the rural farm house in Texas, and the year victim #6 was born.

Victim #3, born in 1994, turned 11 in 2005. The monsters bought the double wide trailer in 2004. I'm guessing that's when the kids, perhaps all but the baby born that year (#victim # 10) were abandoned in the filthy farmhouse. Perhaps the age of victim #3 helps explain the move and the timing of the move.

The monsters left Texas abruptly in 2010. They were deeply in debt, and their house was in foreclosure. The trailer had also been repossessed, so the children were definitely living with/going to be living with the monsters again.

In 2010 for move, and in 2011/2013/2015 for Las Vegas renewal vow freak shows:

Victim #1 was 22. Then 23/25/27.
Victim #2 was 18. Then 19/21/23.
Victim #3 was 16. Then 17/19/21.
Victim #4 was 14. Then 15/17/19.


Victim #5 was 12. Then 13/15/17.
Victim #6 was 11. Then 12/14/16.


Victim #7 was 10. Then 11/13/15.
Victim #8 was 9. Then 10/12/14.
Victim #9 was 8. Then 9/11/13.
Victim #10 was 6. Then 7/9/11.
Victim # 11 was 5. Then 6/8/10.
Victim # 12 was 3. Then 4/6/8.

----
The ages of victims when the monsters moved yet again in 2014, from Marietta to Perris, and the victims were locked in rooms/almost completely isolated:


Victim 1: 26
Victim 2: 22
Victim 3: 20
Victim 4: 18
Victim 5: 16
Victim 6: 15
Victim 7: 14
---
Victim 8: 13
victim 9: 12
Victim 10: 10
----
Victim 11: 9
Victim 12: 7
------------------
The age of each victim when brave young woman #8 escaped:

Victim 1: 29.
Victim 2: 25
Victim 3: 23
Victim 4: 22
Victim 5: 20
Victim 6: 19
Victim 7: 18
Victim 8: 17
Victim 9: 16
Victim 10: 15

------
Victim 11: 13
Victim 12: 11
------
Victim 13: 2
 
Taken me days to catch up. Just a couple of thoughts since the DVD collection pictures were posted.
1) The kids didn't know what a police officer was but the parents had full sets of "Everybody Loves Raymond" videos where Raymond's brother is a cop. Of course the sister who lived with the family did say the children were not allowed to watch tv.
2) Given the immaculate shelving and alphabetizing of the DVD collection - I am making a leap here but I would bet those are DT's videos. If he is an engineer (who might or might not be on the spectrum) he most likely would prefer order and structure. The juxtaposition of the DVD collection and the carpets and walls of the old house got me wondering.
3) I highly suspect there is a sexual component to this in conjunction with the torture. Would LT want to keep the children filthy so they would be less "alluring" to DT? She appears to keep herself clean and even the 2 year old.
4) I am guessing that the kids were allowed some sort of normalcy up to the age of maybe 3 or 4 (possibly up to age 7) as some have language skills, and have been taught some "manners" under the guise of deferring to the parent.
5) How did the 17 year old know that a deactivated cell phone could (take pictures?) be used to call 911? Could the older brother who attended a college class have heard or seen something while he was allowed out of the home? If the children did not have access to the outside world (via computer, telephone, television, schooling, playing with neighbors, shopping, attending events other than Disney with parents) just having that tidbit of info must have felt so empowering. They would have had to find a charger to make sure the deactivated phone would have power.
I think the better question is why would someone who knows nothing of the world think all phones wouldn't work? I'm thinking that was the only number they knew. And even if they didn't, if they hit the call button, a message pops up saying that only emergency 911 calls can be made.

It basically had instructions on what number to dial for help.

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