CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #4

[Abp5]

All children are account for in that photo. Three big girls, three middle and three small girls and three boys, so I think it her last one. Unless there was a miscarriage after the last girl and in between the last baby. It does seem odd in her looking big with short hair, and then big and with longer hair.

I don’t believe it is the youngest. I have always felt she had miscarriages or stillbirths during that 10 year gap. If it was in 2013 during the same trip as the wedding renewal, the baby would be older than the youngest child. I believe she had a late term miscarriage or stillbirth then became pregnant again a few months later. The youngest child was at the 2015 Vegas renewal and was an infant.

This article states that she posts in 2010 that they are expecting again. If she was and lost that child it could explain why the abuse escalated. Her grief could very well come out at misplaced anger at her other children.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/16/parents-at-california-house-horrors-had-god-call-on-them-family-says-as-details-their-past-emerge.html

 

[Lilibet]

I'm not buying any of the BS about a kidnapping. She said that he signed her out of school. No school employee in their right mind would ever allow a boyfriend of any age to sign his girlfriend out of school. Nobody but a parent or a legal guardian can do that. That story is just insanely unbelievable.

Actually, as the wife of a retired teacher, I do think it’s possible that over 30 years ago in a small town a well-known and respected young man could have checked LT out of school on some pretense. I don’t think every school was as strict as it is now. Or she could have met him around the corner after school let out and the story could have changed in the telling. It may still be a falsehood, but I don’t think it’s totally impossible.

 

[Stunned]

Maybe that is why she started planning 2 years ago to run away and get help. She didn't want her baby to live in that h*llish house. Mother's love trumps unimaginable fear?

Oh......wow!

 

[Margo/Mom]

From your link:

CBS News has just learned that someone in Southern California has volunteered to take in and adopt all 13 of s kids and adults and their release to that family could happen as early as Monday.

Monday. Wow!

Well, that terrifies me, I hope it was reported in error. Perhaps the offer was from a facility of some sort that does rehab work of some kind? Perhaps the place that Jaycee Duggard has gotten treatment? Even if a "veteran" foster/adoptive family made the offer and had prior home studies and all in place, I would think that moving on Monday might be premature.

 

[Peculiar]

I'm not buying any of the BS about a kidnapping. She said that he signed her out of school. No school employee in their right mind would ever allow a boyfriend of any age to sign his girlfriend out of school. Nobody but a parent or a legal guardian can do that. That story is just insanely unbelievable. The shower story doesn't make much more sense.

We've got to remember that this allegedly happened in a small West Virginia town in the mid-1980s. I'm not 100% sure if it did happen but I can see it being true.

 

[Niseyg123]

And the sister said on 20/20 that LT wore the pants and was in charge. Bet her lawyers loved that


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Oh yes! That comment from the sister along with her saying she was a willful child rang all kinda alarm bells in my head. Perfect storm-- a strong willed child stuck in a very strict heavy handed family environment. Kids like that need structure and rules but also freedom within limits. When they are stuck in one like LT was the seeds of personality disorders are sown. Strong willed kids are often extremely intelligent and curious and often consider themselves as equal to adults in terms of the relational hierarchy in families. Of
course in a fundamentalist religious household parents and children are in no way equal. The old maxim children should be seen and not heard comes to mind. You do what your told and don't ask questions. This doesn't work for strong willed kids. It only frustrates them and in short disrupts their personality development in a myriad of ways. Lol if you're the nerdy researching type like me there's lots of interesting literature out there about how people develop bpd and similar disorders. "Personality psychology" its broadly called.


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[Lilibet]

Not trying to start anything but... in the charging complaint, it practically reveals the names of all the adult and minor kids. Each charge has (J**-T), uncensored though, after it. Again, I hope that didn't sound rude and I was trying to be to you or to call you out at all. I'm just curious how we all should make that (the names being half-revealed) out? Hope that makes sense.

Yes, the charging document does practically reveal names, but the names have not been in the media and that’s the standard here on WS AFAIK. Perhaps a mod could weigh in.

Actually, that FB Post screenshot and quote should not have been posted at all, according to the rules. It’s good for all of us to review them from time to time...

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?291123-Social-Media-Facebook-Twitter-etc

 

[osu]

Not trying to start anything but... in the charging complaint, it practically reveals the names of all the adult and minor kids. Each charge has (J**-T), uncensored though, after it. Again, I hope that didn't sound rude and I was trying to be to you or to call you out at all. I'm just curious how we all should make that (the names being half-revealed) out? Hope that makes sense.

Nope it didn’t sound rude at all and I appreciate you bringing to my attention so I could back redact the post. ❤️


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[Niseyg123]

Yeah... I interviewed for CPS positions 11 times before I gave up. Probably too much experience and education...too qualified. They seemed to only hire young, thin, attractive women straight out of University. I'm fat, middle aged, and beyond qualified. I would likely have lost my mind at that job anyway, so likely a blessing in disguise.

"Fat, middle-aged, and beyond qualified,". Lmbo. [emoji23] I hear ya on both counts. That and it being a blessing. I can't deal with injustice on that scale.
Now I'm just busy worrying about the negative rap homeschooling is getting b/c of these bozos. We homeschool out TWO kids because the school system where we live sucks, and imo, public education in general sucks right now if you're anything other than book smart.


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[KaaBoom]

I wish all these former neighbors and relatives that have pertinent information about prior behavior of the parents would not speak to media. Their testimony will be needed at trial and telling it to the media may diminish their credibility. They should stay off the airwaves, out of the press and not appear on Dr Phil. I guess I’m asking too much.

I doubt there will be any trial. But if there is, I'm sure they will all be testifying.

 

[HavenWood]

Maybe that is why she started planning 2 years ago to run away and get help. She didn't want her baby to live in that h*llish house. Mother's love trumps unimaginable fear?

That's what I was thinking TeaTime. Maybe maternal instinct is what drove the plan to escape.

 

[LibraStarr]

They don't have to be admissible to be used. It's in the article. Every count of abuse can be based on what they find. And they can absolutely be used as evidence. The physical journals themselves may not be able to be admitted on their own but that's okay. They don't need to be physically held by jurors for the facts within them to be admitted.



I have had that sense about everyone handling this case since the presser. I am very impressed with Riverside County. Everyone seems to dedicated to caring for these kids. It is a very hopeful thing for them.



Thank. You.

My God. I don't understand how anyone could question. Take a puppy. Put a shock collar on him or her. Install an invisible fence. After even a couple times deactivate the electric fence. Then see what happens. I can tell you. They won't go near the previously invisible boundary. No matter what.

These babies were "conditioned" from the time they were toddlers that any slight disobedience, even allowing the water and soap when they washed their hands, to hit slightly above their wrists, would result in insane, mind-boggling, torturous punishments. Beating. Hogtying. Being shackled for weeks. Even months. For a minor infraction.

And they were so isolated they knew next to nothing about the outside world except a couple strangely tantalizing but totally unreal glimpses at Disneyland and Vegas.

They were so deprived and abused that they have cognitive defects as a result and muscle wasting. Their brains are actually underdeveloped. They have intellectual disabilities due to lack of food and stimulation. Jeez.

The question is not why they never tried to escape before this. The question is how did this miracle, of one of these tragically tormented children escaping their captors and having the werewithal to document that torment so someone would believe, how did this miracle occur?

It's practically divine intervention. We should not be hearing about this miraculous escape. We should be hearing about a stench coming from an abandoned home and a subsequent, hopeless, gruesome discovery.

I couldn't figure out how to thank this post so THANK YOU!

It IS an absolute miracle that any one of them had the courage to THINK about and then, ACT on an escape plan!

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I think it was so he could eventually provide financial support for them. Those two monsters only care about themselves. I don't think the kids ever got any true rewards.

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Student loans maybe?

 

[DatelineFan]

It sounds like somebody kept buying presents for the kids but somebody else wouldn't let them play with them.

I think the monsters bought them. I think they are so evil that they bought those toys to taunt the kids with. It makes me sick to think about it. You have to be really evil for that. Obviously, they are.

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[margarita25]

They don't have to be admissible to be used. It's in the article. Every count of abuse can be based on what they find. And they can absolutely be used as evidence. The physical journals themselves may not be able to be admitted on their own but that's okay. They don't need to be physically held by jurors for the facts within them to be admitted.



I have had that sense about everyone handling this case since the presser. I am very impressed with Riverside County. Everyone seems to dedicated to caring for these kids. It is a very hopeful thing for them.



Thank. You.

My God. I don't understand how anyone could question. Take a puppy. Put a shock collar on him or her. Install an invisible fence. After even a couple times deactivate the electric fence. Then see what happens. I can tell you. They won't go near the previously invisible boundary. No matter what.

These babies were "conditioned" from the time they were toddlers that any slight disobedience, even allowing the water and soap when they washed their hands, to hit slightly above their wrists, would result in insane, mind-boggling, torturous punishments. Beating. Hogtying. Being shackled for weeks. Even months. For a minor infraction.

And they were so isolated they knew next to nothing about the outside world except a couple strangely tantalizing but totally unreal glimpses at Disneyland and Vegas.

They were so deprived and abused that they have cognitive defects as a result and muscle wasting. Their brains are actually underdeveloped. They have intellectual disabilities due to lack of food and stimulation. Jeez.

The question is not why they never tried to escape before this. The question is how did this miracle, of one of these tragically tormented children escaping their captors and having the werewithal to document that torment so someone would believe, how did this miracle occur?

It's practically divine intervention. We should not be hearing about this miraculous escape. We should be hearing about a stench coming from an abandoned home and a subsequent, hopeless, gruesome discovery.

Oh how I'd love to see you on the stand prosecuting these monsters...

The good thing is that I don't think these folks will receive absolution, as the facts speak loudly. Their weight alone...

 

[ilovepierre]

I doubt there will be any trial. But if there is, I'm sure they will all be testifying.

They entered not guilty pleas.
There will more than likely be a trial.

IMO

 

[DatelineFan]

Why are people so eager to identify these survivors? We all know that they will have access to the internet at some point. I know they are being identified elsewhere, and people are curious but my goodness, can they at least have SOME privacy? I really don't understand this.

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[DatelineFan]

That's what I was thinking TeaTime. Maybe maternal instinct is what drove the plan to escape.

Or survival instinct. Clearly they are all fighters, and quite brave. Nothing would surprise me, but I don't think she had a baby.

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[JaneEyre]

Very heartbreaking and she was only in 3rd grade at that point.

So there's no record of CPS being called in to investigate bc certainly the teacher/s would have reported this?

Why wasn't this followed through by CPS or the equivalent?

Also, I'm sure when the parents were called in about the child's lack of cleanliness, this led to their decision to "homeschool."

Gosh, this link does not work for me. Can anyone tell me the name of the article so I can search for it?

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[KaaBoom]

I have admittedly had to skip pages to try and keep up here, but I have a question I haven't seen addressed. The brave young woman who called 911, has anyone said if she waited outside for police or if she had to crawl back into that house and wait to be rescued? I am 100% sure she was terrified, shaking uncontrollably, scared to death that nobody would come, and also scared to death about what might happen if they did. My heart breaks for all 13 children in this family, but I can't help feeling the same mix of emotions for this 17 year old that I felt for Michelle Knight...my grief at what she had to endure is equaled by my awe of her strength and bravery. She saved 13 people. She did it with all odds against her. And with little knowledge about what was waiting on the other side. Cases like this smack you in the face simultaneously with the horrifying depths of depravity people are capable of, and also the shocking resilience of the human spirit. I am humbled by this young woman. Not thing #8. Not victim #8. She has proven herself to be neither.

I believe she waited for the police outside, some distance away. One security video showed police cars side by side coming up the street and stopping just short of the house, and then a group of cops walking up to the house. It's pretty obvious they were ready to raid the house. I'm sure they had already talked to the girl and got the full story, by that time.