CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #9

[ocgrad]

Looking at the photos, some are not taken a year apart.
The siblings look clean, hair washed, you can tell.
How does that correspond with one bath a year?

Some reports have stated 2 baths a year.

 

[Zelda1010]

Looking at the photos, some are not taken a year apart.
The siblings look clean, hair washed, you can tell.
How does that correspond with one bath a year?

I think they were cleaned up for photos, usually. I don't think they were quite as ready when the newborn came home and the family was unshackled to come take a picture with their new baaaaaby when LT came home from the hospital (speculation). They are not looking washed & groomed & clothed as carefully there.

I think a yearly bath...well, hair can be washed in a sink. It could be two baths over the last two years, having grown more and more infrequent over time.

Early on when we knew so little and were speculating on quiverfull and another family that is in social media with some weird vow renewals going on was brought up. I sought out a video where that large family with 10+ skinny kids are on the beach playing in the surf with mom. And the dad turns around to show the youngest two on a blanket, yards away. I thought, OMG, I'd never want to do that, nor would I be able to leave babies/toddlers on a blanket on the beach that far from me or anyone else! Then I remembered "blanket training". If you aren't familiar with the controversial concept, well, it comes from a book called To Train Up a Child. There are plenty of people who subscribe to what I might call "fringe" parenting practices. When those people surround themselves and their kids with only like minded people, everyone loses sight of normal. But those people may still recognize abuse when they see it.

After seeing the grad pictures. Many kids appear to have backpacks on. Perhaps in TX they were involved in a community of some sort. A homeschooling group that met at whatever building they are in. Maybe being in TX there were Mexican/American families there. Maybe LT befriended someone who she might've shared pictures with as their families grew together and that person went to Telemundo. I'm really reaching and speculating here, but maybe in this fantasy these two mom friends complain about their lives and husbands and kids. Maybe this mom friend does try to do something, only to have the family up and move. Her own fringe parenting practices and such might keep her from seeking mainstream US media. Hopefully if anything like this fantasy is true, the community in TX is in close contact w/ authorities.

 

[SATA]

Some reports have stated 2 baths a year.

Yes, I just saw that. That makes more sense.

 

[blue22]

Since these children had a plan to escape, they must have hated their lives.

Do abused children think their lives are normal?

I am womdering why they decided to run away. They must have figured out it was not normal

I vividly remember being in 5th grade and seeing a mother speak sweetly to her daughter around my age and encouraging her when she did not do well in something. It clicked to me then, that the way my parents talked to use was very different. 2 years later, my friend's family was sitting at the table doing homework, her mom cleaning dishes and laughing, and it clicked completely. My life was not normal, the way I was raised was not right. The state of our house was gross. I didn't have to be mistreated and abused.

I was NOT isolated. I went to people's homes. I went to school everyday. I played sports and went to the park. It took me until I was 14 to fully understand my home and family was not normal.

I can't imagine the fortitude it took these kids to realize it and escape, with most of them being raised in isolation.

 

[wenwe4]

I am still disturbed by the Disney pictures. They are all posing with one of the characters in the park but no pictures of going on the rides, enjoying a snack/drink/treat, waiting in line for an adventure, none of the other things one would expect to see a family enjoying at a theme park. It is just "posing" for the façade they wanted to portray but where is the true enjoyment of the adventure?

 

[cady]

Their torturers were taking them out in public and for posed "family photos" and they had them bathe as to not call attention to the abuse with bad hygiene?

Those survivors were not outside of the home much at all in context . Their Perris neighbors had zero idea there were 13 children inside that house. Most expressed shock when they found out.

What you are looking at are staged photos for the benefit of FB and to keep up an appearance of false normalcy for their relatives and friends.

If you draw any conclusions from the photos, that would be the one.

I think that the occasional "happy family" group photos were for the purpose of showing LT and DT's respective families on Facebook that all was well in CA, lest there be any questions. It seems to have been a plan that worked, as no one from either family notified authorities about any suspicions.....or asked for a welfare check. Were the kids ever NAMED on FB? I bet that even the family members who saw the photos could not identify all of the Turpin kids by name or even by age. JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Yes! And enjoying taking baths, putting on clean clothes and sleeping in comfortable, clean beds.
Getting whatever haircuts they like, choosing their own styles.
Getting educations.

I hope they will be able to forgive their parents. They have to, to be able to move on in their lives.
I know it will be almost impossible to do, but I think they have to.

-------------------------------------------

Another thing; what year did the Turpins move away from their children?
They clearly could not cope, why then HAVE all those children?!

BBM
Me too. It can be difficult to do, especially if it is family. However, there's a quote, in various wordings, that I try to remember;

'Refusing to forgive, is like drinking rat poison, but expecting the rat to die.'

It's not so much about the parents, as much as it's about freeing your own soul.

 

[Zelda1010]

I think that the occasional "happy family" group photos were for the purpose of showing LT and DT's respective families on Facebook that all was well in CA, lest there be any questions. It seems to have been a plan that worked, as no one from either family notified authorities about any suspicions.....or asked for a welfare check. Were the kids ever NAMED on FB? I bet that even the family members who saw the photos could not identify all of the Turpin kids by name or even by age. JMO

I think you are right because one of the networks had the unblurred adults "identified" but iirc it did not identify them correctly in the collective opinion here. Heck, the one sister w/o a J name claimed one of her minor nieces was her own namesake. And I guess middle name is possible, but, just weird imo.

I think they put up a much bigger facade for her family, but less show was required for one reason or another to appease his side.

 

[SATA]

BBM
Me too. It can be difficult to do, especially if it is family. However, there's a quote, in various wordings, that I try to remember;

'Refusing to forgive, is like drinking rat poison, but expecting the rat to die.'

It's not so much about the parents, as much as it's about freeing your own soul.

Exactly, well put.

 

[SATA]

The Turpins were dreaming of having a reality show.
Apart from the sadistic way they went about starving them, indicating a power trip, could it have been to stunt their growth for a reality show?
They couldn´t have grown kids in a show - would be their skewed logic perhaps.

It is way out there, I know, but those people are as far out there as you get.

___________________________

The development of the kids. There is a photo where three of the older, female siblings appear to have breasts.
But then you look at the Elvis video, and they are all completely flat chested.

Either the girls were made wear bras - or, in the Elvis video, made tie their chests in.

So sick. Poor siblings.

 

[keeleydoll]

What I meant about rickets being reversible is if one of the survivors has been suffering with this for years and has not seen a doctor, that is especially tragic. I should have been clearer. Of course, it is also preventable.

Vitamin D resistant rickets is a genetic condition effecting males at a much higher rate than females and cannot be remedied with the standard UV or vitamin D therapy. I have no idea any of these children were afflicted with this and not properly treated. But it is a type of rickets that isn’t preventable through diet and exposure to sunlight. https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/922305-overview#a1

FYI in most of the US ~15min/day in the sun with some exposed skin allows your body to produce enough vit D, provided you aren’t breastfeeding in which case D is one of the few vitamins or minerals that your body will “steal” to give to your baby if you get under ~15,000iu/day.


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[Doghairrules]

I vividly remember being in 5th grade and seeing a mother speak sweetly to her daughter around my age and encouraging her when she did not do well in something. It clicked to me then, that the way my parents talked to use was very different. 2 years later, my friend's family was sitting at the table doing homework, her mom cleaning dishes and laughing, and it clicked completely. My life was not normal, the way I was raised was not right. The state of our house was gross. I didn't have to be mistreated and abused.

I was NOT isolated. I went to people's homes. I went to school everyday. I played sports and went to the park. It took me until I was 14 to fully understand my home and family was not normal.

I can't imagine the fortitude it took these kids to realize it and escape, with most of them being raised in isolation.

Same here. Seeing friends’ parents speak to them softly and gently. Still took years to figure it all out.

 

[JaneEyre]

Looking at the photos, some are not taken a year apart.
The siblings look clean, hair washed, you can tell.
How does that correspond with one bath a year?

Allowing them to wash face and hair for pictures.

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[JaneEyre]

Some reports have stated 2 baths a year.

And in any case, if you can count the number of baths per year on one hand, it's a problem.

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[Satch]

An interesting hypothetical,

Suppose that David and Louise were living in the same house of filth, but had no children, and were discovered living as such. Could they have lost their home and be forced to move due to the conditions of the home? The horror involves the extreme abuse and torture of the kids. When elements are this bad, there need to be mandatory sterilization steps in place so that parents can't conceive. I understand that defendants have personal rights and are presumed innocent. But when children are abused like this, steps need to be taken to lose parental rights.

How long will a parental rights hearing take? And what would David and Louise's defense be in such a case? Just like the potential criminal trial, I can't think of a thing other than insanity for their defense. The chance of that working is slim to none.

Satch

 

[ThaiBali]

Homeopathy itself is the idea that like treats like and involves dilutions of substances.

Naturopathic medicine is what uses essential oils and other herb and nature based treatments.

Imo homeopathy is a joke, while naturopathy is more based on science but frequently made fun of and lumped together with homeopathy.

Wikipedia may disagree. So may you [emoji4] so... Your mileage may vary

And the cost of homeopathy wasn't mentioned.Lol

 

[JaneEyre]

An interesting hypothetical,

Suppose that David and Louise were living in the same house of filth, but had no children, and were discovered living as such. Could they have lost their home and be forced to move due to the conditions of the home? The horror involves the extreme abuse and torture of the kids. When elements are this bad, there need to be mandatory sterilization steps in place so that parents can't conceive. I understand that defendants have personal rights and are presumed innocent. But when children are abused like this, steps need to be taken to lose parental rights.

How long will a parental rights hearing take? And what would David and Louise's defense be in such a case? Just like the potential criminal trial, I can't think of a thing other than insanity for their defense. The chance of that working is slim to none.

Satch

When we found a house with this kind of filth, usually with an animal hoarding situation, we notified the health department. There are steps that can be taken. Further, if any adults in the home have any kind of disability, they can be turned in to department of children and family services or whatever organization in the area that deals with those sorts of things.

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[mtnlites]

>SNIP<

An interesting hypothetical,

Suppose that David and Louise were living in the same house of filth, but had no children, and were discovered living as such. Could they have lost their home and be forced to move due to the conditions of the home?

As a homeowner and former social worker I can say: It depends. If they were renting then the landlord could've had them evicted. It's a long process, though. We had to evict someone for living in similar conditions in one of our houses and it was very expensive and took almost a year to get them out (and they hadn't even paid rent in 6 months so there was that on top of the filth). Nothing ever moves quickly in the court system.

As far as them owning the house, it would be dependent upon a) how it was affecting the rest of the neighborhood b) safety concerns and c) if there were any structural problems. There is nothing illegal with having a dirty house. People's various definitions of "dirty" make it subjective. If they were hoarding garbage or something that was causing a pest or insect infestation then they'd first be given a warning to clean it up. Then, eventually, they'd get fined. From there it may be condemned but there are several more steps involved and, like I said, could take a long time. With the feces and stuff on the walls and the dirty diapers everywhere, the city could come in and cite a safety violation, or unsanitary conditions, and make them clean it up. If they didn't steps may be taken to foreclose on them. (But, again, that would be the last thing they'd do.) Lastly, if there are structural problems caused by their lack of maintenance or abuse of the home then they would probably be violating codes. The inspector could come in, fine them, give them a timeframe in which they can make the necessary changes, etc.

If the city deemed it uninhabitable until the changes are made then they wouldn't be allowed to live in it until they did whatever they were told to do.

All of this is really dependent upon where you live. In their neighborhood, a nice one, the city would probably be more proactive about making them clean things up and may be more serious about enforcing the rules. Where I live, nothing in their houses that I've seen (including the awful one in Texas) would be enough to have anyone in there writing them up unless there was a child or elderly person in the home. A lot worse than that goes on around here (I know, it's hard to believe) but I am also extremely rural and people keep to themselves so things tend to be more lax.

Even as a social worker, when I got a "dirty house" case, it still took forever to get the city to do anything and most of the time nothing happened. Just watch an episode of "Hoarders." Those folks get away with all kinds of crap (literally) and that's not just for TV.

ETA: vmmking made a good point. They are MUCH more likely to be proactive if there is a child, elderly person, or person with disabilities living in the home.

 

[wenwe4]

An interesting hypothetical,

Suppose that David and Louise were living in the same house of filth, but had no children, and were discovered living as such. Could they have lost their home and be forced to move due to the conditions of the home? The horror involves the extreme abuse and torture of the kids. When elements are this bad, there need to be mandatory sterilization steps in place so that parents can't conceive. I understand that defendants have personal rights and are presumed innocent. But when children are abused like this, steps need to be taken to lose parental rights.

How long will a parental rights hearing take? And what would David and Louise's defense be in such a case? Just like the potential criminal trial, I can't think of a thing other than insanity for their defense. The chance of that working is slim to none.

Satch

If they were responsible for any vulnerable person (ie: disabled, elder, child) who is unable to protect themselves or if the cleanliness violated housing codes it would be something social services could intervene. Often if it's adults making informed decisions to live this way and it doesn't cause harm to another - social services can offer resources if the qualify for those services.

Mandatory sterilization is not an option in any state (that I am aware of). Most parents can and do engage in services and children are returned to their care within just a few weeks or months. Parents are given 12 - 18 months to ameliorate the issues that brought the child(ren) into care. Federal laws require concurrent planning - dual tracts, 1) to reunite the children with their parents while simultaneously planning 2) the termination of parental rights. In especially heinous crimes they usually have mechanisms in the law to protect the children because the risk is too high. Currently their is a lawsuit against Washington State from Susan Powell's parents for placing family reunification on the same level as risk of harm to the child which resulted in Josh Powell setting the children on fire in their home during a supervised visit with Josh.

 

[Leila]

I want to know why Randy (David's brother) is interested in adopting the kids? HUGE NO NO and read flags for me! I don't like the idea that he advocates fasting as part of his religious experiences. Didn't he write a book? I hope Social Services told him that he can't be considered because of the abuse done to the kids. And his fasting beliefs alone should disqualify him from potential custody. I hate the idea of Social Services talking to him about adoption!

This family is too bizarre on both parents sides for ANY relatives to get custody. Do you think the caseworkers see this or not? The older children should even seek to have their last name changed. The same with the younger ones when they reach legal age. This is to remove any association or relationship to their parents. Regardless of what happens in the parents' cases. No Turpin relatives should get these kids! Nothing is gained from that at all.

Satch

I agree. Both sides of the Turpin family are from West Virginia. I remember reading one of the first articles on the family background and it stated that Louise's father was a preacher for the local Church of God. Today, the Daily Mail has an article about the "Church of God With Signs Following in West Virginia.

I'm assuming that the Church of God With Signs Following is a branch of the Church of God. In this article it states that there's an annual outdoor service in which the pastor dances with a venomous snake. Sometimes the pastor gets bitten and very ill, sometimes they die. They believe that once bitten by the snake, it's God's will whether they die of the poisonous venom or not.

Here's a link to the Daily Mail article:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ield-venomous-SNAKES-Americas-Bible-Belt.html

I think both of the Turpins were raised in a religion that was/is outside the beliefs of mainstream religions. Randy Turpin's belief in fasting is something the Turpin survivors shouldn't be exposed to, along with any other beliefs that might be harmful, like the practices of the religious group that dances with snakes.

I hope the case workers understand that allowing the minor children to be adopted by the parent's relatives wouldn't be in the children's best interests. I think the best possible scenario is adoption by someone who will keep all six together and allow them contact with their adult siblings.

I hope the adult children will one day be able to be together under one roof, and I think that's a reasonable goal. The oldest boy went through 2 semesters at college and pulled down a 3.7 grade point average. He could complete his education and get a job that could help support his siblings. All the siblings could one day be employed. With a combined income they could afford a home and all the expenses that come with it.