CA - 13 victims, ages 2 to 29, shackled in home by parents, Perris, 15 Jan 2018 #9

[human]

I see that. In your humble opinion is this sort of thing joe schmo from kokomo could scheme up and succeed at, or would some financial finesse be required? Or is anyone with no scruples and $125+k a year able to pull this shenanigan over and over again for their person instead of a business scheme?

It seems, for whatever reason, they were saavy enough to do it. Car dealers often are anxious to get rid of cars so it used to be easy to buy a new car as well.

They knew enough to rent and then buy a new home. It worked for them so they must know how it works. Maybe someone at work gave him the idea.

We don’t have to guess. We simply have to look at their actions. Trash the houses , leave, get new ones.

 

[mtnlites]

I’m a couple years older than the oldest victim and I def wore lace tights when I was a kid. I think it was common in the late 80s/early 90s.

They're actually pretty common now as well, with tights being popular again.Lace has gone in and out of style for the past 2 hundred years and, like you,I definitely wore them as a child.

I think this family did a lot of messed up things but sometimes I feel like we are reading too much into some things and putting symbolism on stuff that may just not be there. I feel like they did enough godawful stuff to keep my mind busy; I personally prefer not to speculate further upon some things until I have more info.

 

[kiwilaura]

At 45, it’s still a 96% chance you WON’T have a baby with Down Syndrome. Yes the chances are much higher than when younger, but the odds are still skewed very much toward having a non-affected baby. I don’t think the Turpins would have cared much for the odds anyway.

 

[rsd1200]

It seems, for whatever reason, they were saavy enough to do it. Car dealers often are anxious to get rid of cars so it used to be easy to buy a new car as well.

They knew enough to rent and then buy a new home. It worked for them so they must know how it works. Maybe someone at work gave him the idea.

We don’t have to guess. We simply have to look at their actions. Trash the houses , leave, get new ones.

Was the Murietta home not the only home that they rented? If not...then they may have lived in the other rental homes, like I think they may have lived in Murietta, which is in somewhat better conditions. If that's the case, the kids might not have been out in the world, or educated any better, but lived in better conditions. The escape may have just been based on knowing about cleaner conditions, and tired of filth. If you have never tasted ice cream, you don't know to crave it. Same with freedom, cleanliness, etc... Each house they moved into was clean and then it declined, further, and further, into sitting in rooms filled with filth. Cycles. For whatever reason, about two years ago, they decided the cycles should stop.

Like the kid from Inez, Ky. He had moments where he could have escaped, they were just across from the courthouse, he even had opportunity to use his step-dad's firearm against him, and didn't. It was when he heard his mom & step-dad fighting, saying he was the cause of their problems, that he fled. He thought that if he left, they're problems would end.

I guess we'll have to wait to find out, from the T sibs, as to what the impetus was, for the escape plan.

 

[mtnlites]

Like the kid from Inez, Ky. He had moments where he could have escaped, they were just across from the courthouse, he even had opportunity to use his step-dad's firearm against him, and didn't. It was when he heard his mom & step-dad fighting, saying he was the cause of their problems, that he fled. He thought that if he left, they're problems would end.

I guess we'll have to wait to find out, from the T sibs, as to what the impetus was, for the escape plan.

Did you see that the step-dad was released early and is now running for state office? There is a loophole in the way that the step-father was sentenced (he basically plead guilty without having to actually admit that he did any of the things that he was accused of) that allows him to hold office. It angers me.

Sorry, don't want to derail the thread but I think it just gives another example of how sometimes, no matter how awful the abuse and torture were, the victims not only don't get proper justice but the perps never truly end up suffering.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Well, their financial plan seems pretty straightforward. Rack up debt, declare bankruptcy, repeat. That repeat bit takes some know how, doesn't it?

If you consider there are 4 vehicles in the driveway, somehow they kept buying Mustang sports cars, and if you google some of the cell phone numbers that are associated with the private school they defined in California (both names, the current and the one in Murrieta), other vehicles come up that aren't makes and models in the driveway, those are even more cars they recently bought. The repetition makes me wonder how they were able to keep buying more and more without being denied credit....very strange.

 

[Zelda1010]

I've seen articles that say parents who torture their children are different from the more usual child abuse due to unchecked aggression. There are rather uniquely terrible points to this case, like both biological parents being involved.

I know it can get touchy when defense theory comes up. I'll tread lightly, I hope.

Ianal, but defense option of blame the other falls a little flat for me because of the ongoing nature of the abuses. Unless LT can somehow prove she suffered the same abuses previously. But short of some concrete evidence from the late 80s, early 90s that he beat & chained & starved her, that's gonna be a tough pill for me to swallow. A bitter one, either way.

Defense option of insanity. I think they both have an alphabet soup we could diagnose them with if we were real shrinks, but none of it would equal the kind of break with reality that a not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect requires as far as I understand it.

I've read that parents in these torture cases often admit to some of the abuse. They will minimize it or even blame the victim. So, I'm all for a rigorous defense. But if I'm your lawyer (but ianal, so I'm not) and you tell me you've committed the crime, I can't defend you with a flat out lie. I can maybe still try to come up with a defense, but I can't say you weren't even there if you tell me you were. Right? So, if one or both LT and DT say yes we did these things in the name of discipline, we were at the end of our rope because of behavioral problems. Is that even a defense? If they could even prove that there was any problems with the kids before the abuse caused its own set of problems, would that even be a defense? Or wouldn't that be a crime in and of itself, to not seek professional help of some sort?

I'd love for them to just plead guilty and do their time. I am curious what other ianal but opinions are....and real lawyers too.

 

[SkipperKey3]

Was the Murietta home not the only home that they rented? If not...then they may have lived in the other rental homes, like I think they may have lived in Murietta, which is in somewhat better conditions. If that's the case, the kids might not have been out in the world, or educated any better, but lived in better conditions. The escape may have just been based on knowing about cleaner conditions, and tired of filth. If you have never tasted ice cream, you don't know to crave it. Same with freedom, cleanliness, etc... Each house they moved into was clean and then it declined, further, and further, into sitting in rooms filled with filth. Cycles. For whatever reason, about two years ago, they decided the cycles should stop.

<snip>

I guess we'll have to wait to find out, from the T sibs, as to what the impetus was, for the escape plan.

No, I think it goes deeper than that. I don't think it was just declining living conditions. The 17-year-old's words were that they were being held captive, so she - and apparently the others - knew that the restraints - which had been going on for quite some time - were wrong. They took the dangerous steps to get photographic evidence. This doesn't sound like somebody who didn't know that it was wrong because that was how it has always been. It sounds like somebody who knew full well that it was wrong and finally got brave enough to take drastic measures for herself and her siblings to do something about it. She apparently even feared for her life.

And no, I don't think she was the only sibling that felt that way, I think the escape was planned by several, including the sister who got scared and returned. While we haven't heard much about how the siblings are doing, one thing we did hear was that even after being freed for over a week, none of them were asking about their parents. That doesn't sound like they didn't know things should be better.

It sounds like they did crave that freedom, but were so conditioned with fear that it took awhile for the right conditions to fall into place.

 

[ilovepierre]

Here is something that had not occurred to me until we started discussing the life insurance. DT will be 73 and LT will be 65 when "Thing #13" turns 18. And if they had had the 14th child.....

I'm convinced they had to use some sort of reproductive treatments for #13's conception.

Not necessarily.
My mom conceived naturally with her youngest.
No IVF or anything.

 

[msrica97201]

I've seen articles that say parents who torture their children are different from the more usual child abuse due to unchecked aggression. There are rather uniquely terrible points to this case, like both biological parents being involved.

I know it can get touchy when defense theory comes up. I'll tread lightly, I hope.

Ianal, but defense option of blame the other falls a little flat for me because of the ongoing nature of the abuses. Unless LT can somehow prove she suffered the same abuses previously. But short of some concrete evidence from the late 80s, early 90s that he beat & chained & starved her, that's gonna be a tough pill for me to swallow. A bitter one, either way.

Defense option of insanity. I think they both have an alphabet soup we could diagnose them with if we were real shrinks, but none of it would equal the kind of break with reality that a not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect requires as far as I understand it.

I've read that parents in these torture cases often admit to some of the abuse. They will minimize it or even blame the victim. So, I'm all for a rigorous defense. But if I'm your lawyer (but ianal, so I'm not) and you tell me you've committed the crime, I can't defend you with a flat out lie. I can maybe still try to come up with a defense, but I can't say you weren't even there if you tell me you were. Right? So, if one or both LT and DT say yes we did these things in the name of discipline, we were at the end of our rope because of behavioral problems. Is that even a defense? If they could even prove that there was any problems with the kids before the abuse caused its own set of problems, would that even be a defense? Or wouldn't that be a crime in and of itself, to not seek professional help of some sort?

I'd love for them to just plead guilty and do their time. I am curious what other ianal but opinions are....and real lawyers too.

Makes me wonder if they’ve used the adult kids identity. I’ve heard of parents putting utilities in their children’s names. Is it possible one or more of the kids had an id if not license? This could be used in combination with a ss card to establish credit lines for them.


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[SkipperKey3]

I've seen articles that say parents who torture their children are different from the more usual child abuse due to unchecked aggression. There are rather uniquely terrible points to this case, like both biological parents being involved.

I know it can get touchy when defense theory comes up. I'll tread lightly, I hope.

Ianal, but defense option of blame the other falls a little flat for me because of the ongoing nature of the abuses. Unless LT can somehow prove she suffered the same abuses previously. But short of some concrete evidence from the late 80s, early 90s that he beat & chained & starved her, that's gonna be a tough pill for me to swallow. A bitter one, either way.

Defense option of insanity. I think they both have an alphabet soup we could diagnose them with if we were real shrinks, but none of it would equal the kind of break with reality that a not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect requires as far as I understand it.

I've read that parents in these torture cases often admit to some of the abuse. They will minimize it or even blame the victim. So, I'm all for a rigorous defense. But if I'm your lawyer (but ianal, so I'm not) and you tell me you've committed the crime, I can't defend you with a flat out lie. I can maybe still try to come up with a defense, but I can't say you weren't even there if you tell me you were. Right? So, if one or both LT and DT say yes we did these things in the name of discipline, we were at the end of our rope because of behavioral problems. Is that even a defense? If they could even prove that there was any problems with the kids before the abuse caused its own set of problems, would that even be a defense? Or wouldn't that be a crime in and of itself, to not seek professional help of some sort?

I'd love for them to just plead guilty and do their time. I am curious what other ianal but opinions are....and real lawyers too.

I don't think we've seen the last of the charges yet.

 

[Spice]

Spam is produced in Minnesota which even has a SPAM museum. There are many flavors of Spam. Spam is perhaps the most favorite food substance in Hawaii.

I cannot imagine what nutrition there is in Vienna sausages. Easy to prepare. Do they come with the pop top on them? Give each child a can and call it a day.

How long could someone survive with no sunlight, fruits or vegetables? A banana or an apple or orange would have no prep time.

It is so hard to imagine those children at the weddings and how they were eager to please the Elvis. Probably one of the few times they were treated like people

BBM

I agree. And when you watch those videos, and you keep this in mind, It is so on display and so very, very heartbreaking.

I wish only the best, intense healing, and self actualization for every single one of these survivors. In my heart, I know that this is an impossible feat, but I believe in their resilience, with the appropriate and intensive care that they need deserve, moving forward.

I have hope for them. Always.

 

[her]

I was able to insure my children with my work insurance, Is that unusual?

Not at all.

 

[ilovepierre]

Maybe it was an oops, but it was a risky one. The older the mother is, the higher the chance of Down Syndrome.

My mom's youngest was born when my mom was almost 40.
Not once did her OB/GYN say she was high risk for a Down Syndrome baby...or any any other genetic defect.

One of my teachers in high school was told her baby would have Down Syndrome. All the genetic tests and amniocentesis were positive. Baby was born with no Down Syndrome.

I don't put much stock into such statistics anyways.

 

[Zelda1010]

Makes me wonder if they’ve used the adult kids identity. I’ve heard of parents putting utilities in their children’s names. Is it possible one or more of the kids had an id if not license? This could be used in combination with a ss card to establish credit lines for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've wondered that too, but figured websleuthers were all over that angle and something would have come to light here. If there was credit, cars, homes etc in the kids names, wouldn't that be coming up? I haven't looked myself w/ known names and birthdates.....well, I don't know if I'd know where to start.

 

[Spice]

No, I think it goes deeper than that. I don't think it was just declining living conditions. The 17-year-old's words were that they were being held captive, so she - and apparently the others - knew that the restraints - which had been going on for quite some time - were wrong. They took the dangerous steps to get photographic evidence. This doesn't sound like somebody who didn't know that it was wrong because that was how it has always been. It sounds like somebody who knew full well that it was wrong and finally got brave enough to take drastic measures for herself and her siblings to do something about it. She apparently even feared for her life.

And no, I don't think she was the only sibling that felt that way, I think the escape was planned by several, including the sister who got scared and returned. While we haven't heard much about how the siblings are doing, one thing we did hear was that even after being freed for over a week, none of them were asking about their parents. That doesn't sound like they didn't know things should be better.

It sounds like they did crave that freedom, but were so conditioned with fear that it took awhile for the right conditions to fall into place.

I love you.

That's All.

 

[Zelda1010]

I don't think we've seen the last of the charges yet.

You know, you are probably right. And the lewd act and strangulation are hardly begged off as discipline.

I hope these kids are ready to stay strong. I sure hope they continue to get a lot of support.

 

[Spice]

Thank you so much! It's hard to reconcile the lovely, brand new home with the unspeakable acts that followed there.

I wonder if they were planning on just walking away from the mortgage after relocating, or if there were plans to come back to clean up and then list for sale. According to Zillow (which I know isn't always accurate), the value of the home has not even increased by $12,000 since they purchased in 2014.

BBM

There in lies the problem with everyone who came into contact, felt unsettled, minimized their instincts, and walked away confused and wishing for the best.

Horrific abuse occurs everywhere.In the nicest houses, the most affluent , middle class, or lower socio economic and struggling neighborhoods.

We all need to know this and keep that understanding close.

The human condition and the banality of evil is everywhere.

We shouldn't be blinded or fooled. When it challenges all that we think is "safe", or somehow 'upstanding", that is exactly how it hides.

 

[rsd1200]

At 45, it&#8217;s still a 96% chance you WON&#8217;T have a baby with Down Syndrome. Yes the chances are much higher than when younger, but the odds are still skewed very much toward having a non-affected baby. I don&#8217;t think the Turpins would have cared much for the odds anyway.

O/T I did not know that. I've seen Bill's chart before, but the children/adults who I've known, who were born with Downs, were born closer to my birth era (boomers). I don't seem to see many children with Downs, in our area anymore. Could it be in decline due to better overall health of the parents, or is it just coincidence? Just curious.

I don't really think the Ts had Downs in mind either, but, if they just had to have another baby, and one couldn't perform/conceive, then it's still possible, that they may have sought out a fertility clinic.

 

[rsd1200]

Did you see that the step-dad was released early and is now running for state office? There is a loophole in the way that the step-father was sentenced (he basically plead guilty without having to actually admit that he did any of the things that he was accused of) that allows him to hold office. It angers me.

Sorry, don't want to derail the thread but I think it just gives another example of how sometimes, no matter how awful the abuse and torture were, the victims not only don't get proper justice but the perps never truly end up suffering.

Alford Plea. I saw that. I am a bit concerned that DT may try an Alford Plea.

The number of years that SM got, and for him to be running for office, is a slap in the face to that poor boy. I don't think he has a snowball's chance in Hades though. He never got elected all those other times he ran. He's a sadistic nut.