GUILTY CA - Ana Abulaban, 29, and Rayburn Barron, 28, killed by TikTok'r husband, San Diego, 21 Oct 2021

[AnyNameIWish]

Mother of TikTok personality testifies in defense of her son in his murder trial

Ali Abulaban testified that her son confessed to killing his wife and male friend and then sent her photos of their bodies

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

Jurors also heard Monday from Dr. Francesca Lehman, a clinical and forensic psychologist retained by the defense, who said she diagnosed Abulaban with bipolar I disorder, complex trauma, alcohol and stimulant dependence, and unspecified personality disorder with borderline, antisocial, and narcissistic features.

Lehman testified that these diagnoses would create “a perfect storm” that she would expect to severely impair a person’s judgment and decision making.

The doctor also referenced multiple 911 calls Abulaban made in 2021, in which he expressed concerns about himself. In one of the calls, a police dispatcher felt Abulaban “was having some kind of breakdown” and referred him to services that could assist him, Lehman said.​

Ok, sure. Yeah. He himself knew he needed help esp with his coke addiction.

He reached out. But....

He didn't have health insurance, for anyone in the family? He blamed the fact that they lost insurance cuz Ana left work.

They didn't opt in to Cobra (gap) coverage? He chose not to enroll his entire family under his own insurance? Enroll in state sponsored health insurance? It's called adulting. California has plenty of programs and medi-cal for residents and working poor (which he wasn't I think.)

Every step he took, he ignored any level of self responsibility. That isn't mental illness.

 

[Curious Me]

...They didn't opt in to Cobra (gap) coverage?...

Every step he took, he ignored any level of self responsibility. That isn't mental illness.

Geez, plenty of people don't opt for Cobra Insurance says a former Benefits Administrator that also once went without health insurance for a couple of years.

I respect your views and your sharing your thoughts. I just don't think I would expect much from him to gain control of his life during that time. MOO, it wasn't the lack of insurance that prevented him from getting help. He's a troubled human being. Mentally ill people, even under dr.'s care, sometimes choose to not take their medication, so "ignoring self responsibility" can actually be another symptom of mental illness.

In general, not to defend him, but mood swings and manic episodes, can sweep your good intentions right off the table on a daily basis, and especially if you're also addicted to cocaine. I do think he was suffering "losing it" at that time. Mainly, the coke combined with all his mental issues was the perfect storm. He definitely had that fear of abandonment common with BPD. He was losing Ana. He seemed full of neurosis and anger. However, not sure this should reduce the charges, nor am I saying this to excuse his horrible decision to take those two lives. Just saying I see evidence that he was in a sense mentally ill at that time. All MOO​

 

[Curious Me]

An Overview of Bipolar I Disorder

WebMD explains the symptoms and treatments of bipolar I disorder, and how the condition differs from other types of bipolar disorder.

www.webmd.com

 

[Curious Me]

Here it is a 3 hrs. 22 minutes 3 seconds video of the Closing Arguments. MOO, Jurors have to really consider it all before deciding to send a person to prison for the rest of their lives. To be fair, no quick judgments. ​

TikTok Star Murder Trial: Closing Arguments
CA v Ali Abulaban

 

[ttjo]

Here it is a 3 hrs. 22 minutes 3 seconds video of the Closing Arguments. MOO, Jurors have to really consider it all before deciding to send a person to prison for the rest of their lives. To be fair, no quick judgments. ​

I hear you and I understand, In fact I work in the field of restorative Justice so I totally get what you're saying. It's tough cause he has to have consequences, but what amount of time is appropriate. When you decide between what the law says about premeditation, and what you believe a normal person would do in those circumstances. which way do you go?

I believe he had all kinds of precursors , issues from the past, compounded by whatever state he was in on those drugs, and bothered by occasionally being poked BY Anna ( I know thats the DV cycle) but its also why people need help to safely get out. The dont know what to look for , or all that is involved to be safe.
also the drugs .high or coming down I dont know whats worse. ( probably coming down ) I just dont believe he was capable of good judgement in that moment, so what do you go by?
what I cant figure out is if she knew how crazy he was ,why on earth would she bring a man, back to her apartment??? I'm not victim blaming either, but it cant be that is you see contributing factors you cant point it out for fear of being accused of victim blaming. You cant ignore that she did antagonize a bit, and did give mixed messages, maybe most people weren't confused by her messages, but he was. Someone like him needs clear clear messages and cant be given any inkling of hope . I KNOW IT DOESNT JUSTIFY WHAT HE DID., just saying in his mind he was losing everything. is he a narc ,,, yeah.

 

[Orso49]

Why was Ali allowed to carry a weapon? He seemed to be very aware of how to handle the gun and how to place a listening device on his child's iPad. If he hadn't bugged his wife's apartment, he wouldn't have been traumatized by his wife having a male visitor. If rage is an excuse for bad behavior, we will have a real mess in the legal system.

 

[AnyNameIWish]

@Orso49

I mean first amendment and all, it's also San Diego which is a lot more 1A friendly than other parts of California.

Remember this testimony:

Q: Do you have a conceal carry permit in California?
A: No I don't, but I was in the process.....

He felt entitled and rules didn't apply to him. He's a self-crowned king.

Exactly. He has the ability to think through how to install the voice monitoring app and keep the iPad charged and hidden. He can adjust his belt so the gun doesn't make his pants fall down. He knows Amira is at school and at what time to pick up. He has the ability to rationalize and make decisions, and they were all terrible.

 

[ttjo]

Why was Ali allowed to carry a weapon? He seemed to be very aware of how to handle the gun and how to place a listening device on his child's iPad. If he hadn't bugged his wife's apartment, he wouldn't have been traumatized by his wife having a male visitor. If rage is an excuse for bad behavior, we will have a real mess in the legal system.

very true, I cant argue that

 

[ttjo]

@Orso49

I mean first amendment and all, it's also San Diego which is a lot more 1A friendly than other parts of California.

Remember this testimony:

Q: Do you have a conceal carry permit in California?
A: No I don't, but I was in the process.....

He felt entitled and rules didn't apply to him. He's a self-crowned king.

I said that before, why put a listening device? why did he need to carry a gun > ( but Im in canada , noone does that here)
he has to know coke involves massive mood swings , plus probably taking something to come down also, he has a history of abuse and lack of control. I get it. thats the problem , he could have seen all of that and recognized he needed help but he didnt.. hes a control freak. I get that.
so do you lock him up and throw away the key? or what other options are there, hes going away for so long anyway, hes guilty we get that. noone is arguing that. but is it muder 1 or 2? I swing from one to the other.

 

[ttjo]

he wouldnt have put an iPad as a listening device, he wouldnt have walked in on it.... very true, but if she didnt bring a man ( a man Ali hated no less) back to the apartment.Same diff. he was a ticking time bomb. and she didnt worry about dancing around it. why? its not like it was years of separation. its her right to move on sure.... but its very careless and risky behavior also. as you now see. Thats not victim blaming, Im just saying dont play with fire if you dont want to get burnt, that sounds harsh but I hope you know what I mean. be cautious not careless.

 

[ttjo]

dbm maybe TMI

 

[Curious Me]

He felt entitled and rules didn't apply to him. He's a self-crowned king.

JMO here. That he had a gun does not strike me as a shocking big deal. I don't like over using the N word, but many criminal cases make it necessary to use it. We see this all the time from all kinds of people that have strong Narcissistic personalities. That is typical NPD and Antisocial behavior. There's rule breakers around in every which way from celebrities to government officials. We've observed plenty of that "entitled to break the rules I'm the King" from even some prior past Presidents, not to mention any on trial now. Listening devices... Watergate. MOO
​

 

[Curious Me]

why did he need to carry a gun > ( but Im in canada , noone does that here)

MOO and thoughts here. I live SD. It's a big city and there's a lot of gun crimes in San Diego. We're near the border, there's cartels, there's drugs. Heck, there's big homeless encampments, where mental illness & drugs are often prevalent, right downtown not far from those fancy apts. Ali lived in. If he was doing deals to buy his cocaine, he might've felt he needed a gun on him... you know, drug deals go bad sometimes.

Please know, I'm not a gun person, but in the US there's people who believe strongly in carrying a gun. My son moved across country where they allow gun owners ages 18 and older to openly carry firearms without a permit. Ali lived in Virginia before moving here? Then, in VA he could carry openly with a permit, but not carry a concealed if I understand it correctly. Do all kinds of people break the rules every which way everyday? Yes, they do.

You must feel safer where you live if there's less guns? Are there really less gun crimes and less gun murders? Nice. I don't like the idea that someone could have a gun on them and shoot me over a traffic argument. ​

 

[Curious Me]

Home Page - San Diego County District Attorney

www.sdcda.org

As of August 2022 (I was curious how many.)

There are currently 327 Deputy District Attorneys employed by the DA’s Office and the Office files more than 40,000 criminal cases each year.​

 

[Curious Me]

I hear you and I understand, In fact I work in the field of restorative Justice so I totally get what you're saying. It's tough cause he has to have consequences, but what amount of time is appropriate. When you decide between what the law says about premeditation, and what you believe a normal person would do in those circumstances. which way do you go?...snipped to reply...​

It helps to have all of you sharing your own thoughts and allowing me to process mine. I'm still watching the closing arguments, and going over all kinds of factors. Thank You so much for sharing some of your thoughts, @ttjo.

You too, @AnyNameIWish & the others posting here.

I also couldn't help but wonder why more precautions weren't taken to not have male company come to the apt. at that particularly dangerous time. MOO, also, she may not have meant to confuse with mixed messages, but their pattern together was of "intermittent reinforcements" on both sides, I think. It continues the cycle. Neither side seemed to know how to change it. They needed professional help, not just marriage counseling, but more in depth individual help to break that cycle.

Intermittent reinforcement is a conditioning technique where a behavior is rewarded inconsistently and unpredictably.

I was listening to a close best friend of Ana's from high school days in Japan. She was around when Ana first met Ali there. I'll post the news interview below.

It matters that he was discharged from the Air Force for domestic violence and continued to be abusive over years. I don't think the drama between them was anything new and he kept her strung along promising to change and didn't. Not only continued the abuse, but added drugs and losing his job to the problems. Now, he wants us to believe he never saw it coming that she would give up on their marriage and start moving on. He may have had mental illness problems, but he is also a very quick thinking, sharp young man. I think he knew the score and went there angry, yes in a state of passionate anger, but aware.

That matters as I weigh if he was that helplessly confused at the time of the shootings.

Murder Victim's Childhood Friend Reacts To TikTok Star's Jailhouse Interview (2021)

​

 

[Curious Me]

This is from the Prosecution's Closing Arguments.

Spoiler: Prosecution's Closing- misc. crime scene apt layout, etc.,

 

[ttjo]

MOO and thoughts here. I live SD. It's a big city and there's a lot of gun crimes in San Diego. We're near the border, there's cartels, there's drugs. Heck, there's big homeless encampments, where mental illness & drugs are often prevalent, right downtown not far from those fancy apts. Ali lived in. If he was doing deals to buy his cocaine, he might've felt he needed a gun on him... you know, drug deals go bad sometimes.

Please know, I'm not a gun person, but in the US there's people who believe strongly in carrying a gun. My son moved across country where they allow gun owners ages 18 and older to openly carry firearms without a permit. Ali lived in Virginia before moving here? Then, in VA he could carry openly with a permit, but not carry a concealed if I understand it correctly. Do all kinds of people break the rules every which way everyday? Yes, they do.

You must feel safer where you live if there's less guns? Are there really less gun crimes and less gun murders? Nice. I don't like the idea that someone could have a gun on them and shoot me over a traffic argument. ​

and Im sure not opposed to that. I totally get you have to feel safe. Here, we just aren't allowed to.
Feel safer? kind of, other Provinces have bigger populations and places where large numbers of people hang out. Im in Alberta it's pretty tame here. We have gun violence but its more targeted, ( gangs, organized crime) less random stuff. I mean it exists, just not very often.

 

[ttjo]

That matters as I weigh if he was that helplessly confused at the time of the shootings.
​

IDK I write and delete and write and delete. this is it for me, I agree with what you said here "He may have had mental illness problems, but he is also a very quick thinking, sharp young man. I think he knew the score and went there angry, yes in a state of passionate anger, but aware."
so if youre asking if its heat of passion or pre meditated, I dont know.
by the time that happened it was way too late in the game. ' he had a history and was high. it was almost inevitable. I also think she was careless in bringing a man there because she knew what Ali was like. She had the right to move on sure, he wasnt allowed to go there, sure. but that feels kind of naive to me. he was obsessed. They dont tell you, that when you leave its the most dangerous time for nothing.
This is like the Dorothy Stratton story.

 

[Orso49]

IDK I write and delete and write and delete. this is it for me, I agree with what you said here "He may have had mental illness problems, but he is also a very quick thinking, sharp young man. I think he knew the score and went there angry, yes in a state of passionate anger, but aware."
so if youre asking if its heat of passion or pre meditated, I dont know.
by the time that happened it was way too late in the game. ' he had a history and was high. it was almost inevitable. I also think she was careless in bringing a man there because she knew what Ali was like. She had the right to move on sure, he wasnt allowed to go there, sure. but that feels kind of naive to me. he was obsessed. They dont tell you, that when you leave its the most dangerous time for nothing.
This is like the Dorothy Stratton story.

I thought that Ali had a key that Ana didn't know he had. She wouldn't have expected Ali to break into the apartment. Ali did not have a concealed carry permit and I highly doubt he would have gotten one with his record of abuse and discharge from the Air Force. It's interesting, too, that Ali was so worried about his daughter being in an environment where there were drugs while at the hotel party. He didn't seem to mind allowing her to be present in the home with drugs, arguing and abuse. He is a master manipulator and a very good actor.

 

[Curious Me]

Again MOO here-- It's a waste of time and takes too much time to "Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda" about Ali. Shoulda judgements from people are their opinions of what they think somebody else shoulda done. He did not meet a lot of people's expectations. I'd describe him as "stubbornly willful" and now Jurors will be judging if he willfully shot those two human beings.

The Prosecutor did some of that "shoulda" in Closing, but I was glad when she stopped and started giving straight forward facts presenting his actions the day of the murders in a more objective way, and giving the timeline and his actions, which made more impact in my opinion.

Ana came back to the apt. with a mess on the floor? She knew then that Ali had gotten into the place. She and Ray were laughing about it and Ali. The mess on the floor should've been a warning to get out of there and report it to police.

JMO, I don't know why be so focused on Ali not having a concealed carry permit. IMO, that's small potatoes. He was probably also running around town making drug deals and carrying cocaine on his person. Thankful his daughter didn't get her hands on the gun nor the coke. Thankful he didn't shoot his whole family or all of Ana's friends.

MOO, he had a very good job that must've required smarts. What I find interesting is he worked on a Navy base and had secret clearance and held down a job while strung out with a cocaine habit and possible carrying a gun.​

Ali’s Workplace

Ali’s former manager, Clifford Goniea, also testified Monday. Goniea used to be his manager in the IT Department at the Naval Air Station on North Island. He said with Ali’s position he had secret clearance level.

Goniea said Ali began working for him in March 2021, and said from March through July, there were no issues with his employment. However, beginning in July 2021, he said he noticed Ali sometimes wouldn’t show up for work some days or not work full days.

Goniea said Ali requested a short-term disability leave beginning in July 2021, and returned in September 2021. He said upon his return, his employment was of normal behavior, but quickly fell back into the old patterns.

The last day Ali came into work on Tuesday, Oct. 19, 2021, when Goniea told him that he needed to come into work everyday or else he would have to report it. On Oct. 20, Ali did not go into work, Goniea said he reported this and the intention was to have Ali terminated.​

Former TikTok star’s mother takes the stand in his double murder trial

ay nine of the double murder trial for the former TikTok star Ali Abulaban included Ali’s mother on the stand, discussing Ali’s abusive childhood, Ali and Ana’s marriage and when Ali called her on …

fox5sandiego.com