CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #10

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Nikynoo

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Not to the media. The interviews - he was not speaking for any length of time - perhaps a minute or two? He was interviewed at length by LE and we don't have access to what RT told LE. I suspect the answer to your questions are in the LE interviews.
 

Stripehaven

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Hmmmm........
Like I said -- It's doubtful he was searching all by his lonesome from noon or before; until 3:26. Too freaking hot, for one thing !
And you’d think he start worrying about HER being in the heat without supplies for so long, and call for help a lot sooner, if he was already feeling panicky by noon.
 

Nikynoo

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Thanks @Kapua for reminding us of the text message sent by the VIs sister. Here is my interpretation (with my reasonings) of that message, mostly to show that we all interpret things differently.

hmmm i don’t have the sharpest memory but i’ll try to recount as best as i can1. Indicates to me that this was a long call, containing a lot of information

robbie and said he needs to talk to daddy and that barbara’s missing.

it was a long story 2.confirms 1 above that started at the beginning on friday morning 3. note, no times here, no mention of Kennels, Gas station etc. IMO this is because this was not deemed an important part of the VI’s sisters retelling, the most important part was when and after Barbara was missing and progressed chronologically throughout the day4. note the retelling is not chronological, see 13-16 below

the impression (subjective) robbie gave me was that she was wearing a red cap, a bikini and carrying a travel cup with beer in it. they lost sight of each other for 5-10 minutes before she “vanished” 5. I take this to be a direct quote from RT and he went back to their rv to see if she had returned but it was still locked so that meant she hadn’t come back yet (they had put the key under a rock which they both knew the location of). so he went back to check a shaded cave that they had found together earlier thinking she may have been taking a break from the heat 6. perhaps this indicates that Barbara was getting too hot and that is why she was returning to the RV? but she wasn’t there either. he still wasn’t worried at this point because.. i don’t remember why he said he wasn’t yet worried. maybe because they both knew the area? or this was a regular thing? idk not sure but he continued searching for her on his own. 7. Does this mean anything? Was someone else there with them and left? by around noon time 8.Media reports state 2.30. Either RT or LE (told by RT) must have informed the media of this time. Is this an error in the retelling or did RT state the wrong time to LE/Media? it was getting terribly hot 9. Hottest time on that day was between 4pm and 6pm IIRC so this indicates that this was much later than noon and supports the 2.30 timing @8. so he started getting worried and called 911. 10, we know that the 911 call was at 3.38ish, this also supports the 2.30 timing @8. police arrived like 2 hours later and searched for her.

robbie said throughout the day 11. was this misremembered? I believe that this was the following day. they had sniff dogs, horses, hundreds of people and even a helicopter (which unfortunately couldn’t use its infrared function because it was too hot out to get any useful readings) and nobody could find any trace of her. searched throughout the night too. nothing. she had just disappeared. robbie admits “it doesn’t make any sense” that she just wandered off and got lost and there’s no evidence.. 12. odd phrasing which is why he suspects she may have been picked up in a car. also because from the spot where she went missing she had to cross a highway in order to get back to where their rv was parked. also apparently she took a 360 picture that morning 13, IMO this supports the 2.30 timing @8. from on top of a hill 14, not rocks, a hill Is this at a different location to Kelbaker/Hidden Hill Rd? and the photo included a parking lot 15, IMO this is not Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. This indicates that they stopped somewhere else on the way.with some vehicles in it so the police are looking into their license plates/info.16. WS members have been unable to identify a location which fits this description.

robbie said that he just wants barbara back and will press no charges against the person who abducted her so long as they return her.17, this call was after the media interviews, see 19 the call was delivered in a measured tone but he broke down a bit at this point,18, is this at the same point in the interviews? was tough to hear ..abc reached out? idk if it was abc but some mainstream news outlet and i definitely heard nancy grace mentioned. robbie’s done some interviews 19 as he wants to get the word out. but he hasn’t seen or read any of the released news and comments.20 I think he has it’s too much 21, confirms 20.

he said he keeps returning to the spot where he lost her 22. he knows where Barbara went missing and overturning rocks 23.OTT and searching and searching hoping to find something. he was there the day he called us although i think he said he shouldn’t really go back there as protocol says he’s the first suspect. 24.had been interviewed by LE, no mention of the polygraph? he was even held for 5hrs in a cop car on the first day. it’s been nonstop and nobody is sleeping.25, justifying why he didn't call earlier.

robbie said he had held off on calling daddy to tell him the bad news because it was such devastating news and he was hoping she would turn up.. but he couldn’t wait any longer 26, because of the media interviews, would he have called if he hadn't given interviews? He would have needed to call them before Barbaras arrival date in HK? he also said it’s difficult to call into china and said his calls rarely go through so if we want to ask any questions or talk more we should call him.

Must admit, this exercise was useful to me. May be useful for the VI to check the entire conversation with his sister.
 
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Nikynoo

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But why do you suppose he might have left actions they did that day out of his list of events relayed to B's relatives, and especially when it was said to have been a detailed list? It is completely understandable that he might leave out personal domestic issues, like whatever they said to one another, but why leave out what they did and where they went, when meanwhile giving a detailed account? That doesn't make sense. imo.
IMO, because the text message did not relay the entire conversation, it was a summary of what was said.
 

deugirtni

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When he was talking to the family in HK? I think it would be natural to concentrate on the time immediately before he lost sight of her, and what happened afterwards. He didn't bother to mention that they stopped for ice, for instance, because it had no relevance to what happened later.
but he said that she said he'd given a very detailed account of that entire morning, so again, I ask why would he leave parts out, aside from the emotional/relationship aspect?

it was a long story that started at the beginning on friday morning and progressed chronologically throughout the day.
 

Nikynoo

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but he said that she said he'd given a very detailed account of that entire morning, so again, I ask why would he leave parts out, aside from the emotional/relationship aspect?

it was a long story that started at the beginning on friday morning and progressed chronologically throughout the day.
He didn't. The text is a summary of what he said, otherwise the text would have been much longer.
 

LAhiker

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This is the time line, I came up with based on information from VI's posts and google maps of the route and a good dose of speculation.CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9
  • We know that they left home around 8.15 am
  • We know that they stopped at the gas station for ice about an hour later. Say they leave the Gas station at 9.30.
  • We *think* that they may have stopped on the way - at the place of the 360 photo. For the sake of argument, lets say its half way between the gas station and Kelbaker/Hidden Hills - so they arrive at the 360 place at 10am.
  • They go for a walk to the top of the hill, take photo, and return to the RV - allow 45 mins - leave 360 place at 10.45
  • They arrive at Kelbaker/Hidden Hills at 11.15, park RV, set up chairs, prepare and eat lunch - allow an hour
  • leave RV for walk 12.15 . 1 mile, lets allow - 30 mins max = 12.45
  • look at rock formations take photos - would this be a leisurely pace?( Not too worried about heat here because of elevation and both are prob used to higher temps at their home) allow another 30 mins = 1.15
  • start walk back to RV - allow another 30 minutes = 1.45
  • arrive at RV at 1.45

I realize that this is a speculative timeline. My concern about it is that at a number of points, possibly with the goal of allowing ample time, this timeline assumes that things took longer than is likely. It also inserts two elements into the timeline that have not been strongly attested to.

1. This timeline has them leaving the Circle K/gas station at 9:30am. I believe the VI said they were at the gas station at 9am; that would be more consistent with an 8:15am start. It sounds like RT was a bit impatient when getting the ice; I doubt that that stop took more than 15 minutes.

2. This timeline iassumes that the 360 photo occurred and was separate from the walk at Kelbaker/Hidden Hill. While that's certainly possible -- I think it was implied by the VI's sister in her recollections of RT's call, that would raise other questions: Where was the hill and parking lot? Why did RT imply that the cars in that lot might be relevant to BT's disappearance? RT's comments might make more sense if the 360 was from one of the rocky "hills" on the walk fromKelbaker/Hidden Hill. Then the parking lot would be the one .7 mile to the north and its relevance to where RT said BT disappeared would be more clear.

Also, while it's possible that the VI's sister misheard what RT said about the timeline, a timeline with the 360 photo stop possibly being separate in the morning would assume she correctly heard the part about the 360 but misheard several things she remembers hearing RT say about the timeline. While that's possible, it has the effect of picking some things from her text while discounting others.

3. This timeline adds a full hour for the preparation and consumption of lunch. AFAIK, lunch is never mentioned in RT's comments to the media or to BT's family. While it's possible that they had lunch, this addition has the effect of stretching out the timeline.

All of these additions have the effect of minimizing unaccounted-for time by moving the end of the timeline closer to a time which fits with RT's statements to the media that he searched for an hour before calling 911, though it doesn't quite bring it that far. Perhaps your goal was to figure out what they could have been doing that accounted for all that time, if his account was correct?

If so, it might also be interesting to make a timeline with a less generous estimate of the time at the Circle K, without an extra stop for the 360 photo, and without a long stop for lunch. Without those extra elements, the timeline moves closer to what the VI's sister remembered RT as saying, in which the unaccounted-for time might come between when RT said he last saw BT and when he called 911.

I think @Kapua made one of these quicker timelines, which was then discussed by myself and others.
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

JMO
 

deugirtni

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I respectfully disagree, I believe that the VI's sister was mistaken about the timings.
To me, the timing of what he told the sister makes sense according to when they left the house, the stop at the gas station, the fact they were on their way to a mini camping vacation, it was said to be just a stop-off to look at a rock formation, not a 4 hour interlude in the heat of the day. My interpretation is that what he told media may be at odds with reality, because that would mean they were out walking to look at a rock formation on their way to a camping trip, in the heat of the day in the desert with B wearing barely anything to protect her skin if they'd been doing an actual 4 hour hike, and that just isn't making sense all around. I wonder if R had EVER suspected that the family might delve into this with much scrutiny, or if he felt that being in a different country/continent, they would take his word at face value and not dig too deeply? Because if he had told the family the detailed description of the morning's events, it would've been hard to explain the additional 2.5 hour timespan which elapsed up to 2:30pm instead of noon, and he would've needed to come up with that much more explanation, etc. We can agree to disagree though, but it would be good to know why you believe VI's sister was mistaken about the timings when it seems everything else she relayed seemed to make sense according to what is known via other means. imo
 

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This is the time line, I came up with based on information from VI's posts and google maps of the route and a good dose of speculation.CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9
  • We know that they left home around 8.15 am
  • We know that they stopped at the gas station for ice about an hour later. Say they leave the Gas station at 9.30.
  • We *think* that they may have stopped on the way - at the place of the 360 photo. For the sake of argument, lets say its half way between the gas station and Kelbaker/Hidden Hills - so they arrive at the 360 place at 10am.
  • They go for a walk to the top of the hill, take photo, and return to the RV - allow 45 mins - leave 360 place at 10.45
  • They arrive at Kelbaker/Hidden Hills at 11.15, park RV, set up chairs, prepare and eat lunch - allow an hour
  • leave RV for walk 12.15 . 1 mile, lets allow - 30 mins max = 12.45
  • look at rock formations take photos - would this be a leisurely pace?( Not too worried about heat here because of elevation and both are prob used to higher temps at their home) allow another 30 mins = 1.15
  • start walk back to RV - allow another 30 minutes = 1.45
  • arrive at RV at 1.45
Awesome.. Thank You
 
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LietKynes

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To me, the timing of what he told the sister makes sense according to when they left the house, the stop at the gas station, the fact they were on their way to a mini camping vacation, it was said to be just a stop-off to look at a rock formation, not a 4 hour interlude in the heat of the day. My interpretation is that what he told media may be at odds with reality, because that would mean they were out walking to look at a rock formation on their way to a camping trip, in the heat of the day in the desert with B wearing barely anything to protect her skin if they'd been doing an actual 4 hour hike, and that just isn't making sense all around. I wonder if R had EVER suspected that the family might delve into this with much scrutiny, or if he felt that being in a different country/continent, they would take his word at face value and not dig too deeply? Because if he had told the family the detailed description of the morning's events, it would've been hard to explain the additional 2.5 hour timespan which elapsed up to 2:30pm instead of noon, and he would've needed to come up with that much more explanation, etc. We can agree to disagree though, but it would be good to know why you believe VI's sister was mistaken about the timings when it seems everything else she relayed seemed to make sense according to what is known via other means. imo
BBM

Re. the bolded : Hubris. In excess.
 

deugirtni

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IMO, because the text message did not relay the entire conversation, it was a summary of what was said.
I could go along with that, IF at a later time VI's sister shared that info, saying she'd forgotten to mention at the time of the call with VI... especially considering his fam knew he was delving into this, it would have been especially helpful to know all the stops to be checked out. imo.
 

LAhiker

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<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I am trying to mobilize people since last night, but they rather talk about BT wearing a bikini, beer and RT.

@Micheline, where are you now? Who are you trying to mobilize?

Wherever you are, please do not go searching in the desert alone. As a hiker, I can say that it's alway better to hike or search with a trustworthy buddy who you know and who shares your goals. It is better that a search be postponed until it can be properly organized than that you risk your safety searching alone, especially in a harsh environment such as the Mojave and especially if you are unfamiliar with the area.

JMO
 
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Reasonable & Just

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Right, I was just about to post similar to what LAhiker just said to you, @Micheline. Please be careful, and please don't do it alone. I too hope that you have trustworthy search partners.

Also, in a situation like this, does anyone know if there is an authority to contact ahead of time (like rangers or LEO) to let them know you will be out there and estimated time that you should be back?

Something happened to Barbara. We do not want the same to happen to you or anyone else! Please check in with us.
 

artsy1

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Right, I was just about to post similar to what LAhiker just said to you, @Micheline. Please be careful, and please don't do it alone. I too hope that you have trustworthy search partners.

Also, in a situation like this, does anyone know if there is an authority to contact ahead of time (like rangers or LEO) to let them know you will be out there and estimated time that you should be back?

Something happened to Barbara. We do not want the same to happen to you or anyone else! Please check in with us.

Closest sheriff station to the area is in Needles, second closest is in Barstow - both about 1 hour away.
 
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