CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #11

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cherwell said:
We haven't heard how much she consumed either, so I don't see the relevance.
He may not have drunk any alcohol. He was driving a large rig which would be tricky to manoeuvre, and the RV was new. I don't see him wanting to risk damaging it. Time enough to enjoy a few beers when safely parked at the day's destination.
Click to expand...
I find it relevant.
 
PaulR said:
That's not true at all. Summer around here, many (even most) people hike in shorts, t-shirts. I've seen male hikers (obviously casual hikers) without shirts.

Here's an article about a fundraising hike in Montana, note what the first woman in the photo is wearing: Hikers come to Snowbowl to support Montana Brain Injury Alliance
Click to expand...

Pretty much, what I meant by “cover up” was wearing clothing, not bikinis. T-shirts, shorts, that type of thing, I by no means meant heavy duty gear one would wear in the Arctic or anything.
 
PaulaDC said:
Did the neighbor actually see her or just see the vehicle leave on their video? And I've read confusing comments about who said she was acting normal, I also read that person was the other kennel employee? And the photos are hearsay as no one has seen them? Just looking for clarity on these things.
Click to expand...
I thought the VI said the neighbor saw he and Barbara leave that morning, they have her on surveillance video, but he has not seen it. That's how he got the time that they left.

It's not really clear if it was the neighbor who said she was her normal self or another person at the kennel staff. I have gone back and searched the posts so many times and not all of them have all the details.

But yes, all of that is hearsay and we don't know of any video that LE has.
We are the only ones who have brought all those details into the case.
As the VI stated, it is only Websleuths who are investigating the kennel, the drop off time, and what any witnesses have said.

He said LE has not gone to the Kennel and questioned the staff.
So that part of the timeline is not part of their investigation.

The only thing they have said about when she went missing was it was sometime after RT lost sight of her when they were on their walk back to the RV.

Imo
 
Cherwell said:
Yeah, that key thing sounds like an old habit. It's the kind of thing my grandparents would have done.
Click to expand...
They are indeed grandparent age so it might have been their normal for decades.

Speaking from first-hand experience, I chose where to live partly because it felt very safe, and I see myself actively resisting accepting reality as that safety level shrinks over the years.

In other words, they might be leaning on how safe it used to be, because as a generality, it's hard to accept when that kind of thing changes.

MOO because of course I don't actually know their thoughts about safety nor how they dealt with the hidden key.
 
10ofRods said:
RT had a gallon of water in his backpack, so she'd have been headed toward him "for water." There was water in the trailer, which is where she was in fact headed. There are no other water sources out there. This wasn't her first time in the desert. She has lived out there for more than 15 years.

Practical is in the eye of the beholder. I don't find it useful to continue to declare Barbara "less than" in terms of her choices.

I totally agree with @PaulR that the constant reiteration of what someone else would do in Barbara's situation and the implication that Barbara is wrong, ill-advised or even the subtle implication that she's unintelligent or reckless is victim shaming or even blaming.



It's my understanding that the neighbor's video shows both of them getting into the truck.

But more than that, LE says it has photographic evidence that she was where RT says she was, on the day she went missing.

No county in California is going to conduct an 8+ day search with aerial support unless they have reason to believe the person is out there. Plus, they had RT's phone (and last we heard, he was waiting to get it back). LE knows exactly where RT's phone was that day (and apparently, they stopped in along the route to pick up video).

Photos are never hearsay. We, the public, don't have to see them. Photos are physical evidence, whether they are printed on photo paper or displayed on a screen.
Click to expand...


I am in no way victim shaming. I live in So. California, I have been to the Mojave Desert more times than I can count. Been to Bullhead, Needles, Vegas, etc., countless times. I know the area well.

I am in no way insulting or questioning her intelligence. And all any of us say here is “in the eye of the beholder “. Even you believing I am victim shaming is “in the eye of the beholder.” An opinion.

I’m just thinking in terms of with so much skin exposed in her chosen apparel, I would worry about sunburn, heat exhaustion, etc., as far as her being out there in the sun for any length of time. I’ve been thinking in terms of how her apparel would affect her health and well being in relationship to her disappearing or for whatever happened to her.
 
Hatfield said:
JMO
I know the storing of the key near the RV was already discussed and was just thinking about that some more in relation to this case.

I have to say IMO that I would only do that if I knew in advance that one of us would want to come back to the RV before the other person.

If I was hiking with a partner and no matter who owned the RV I can almost guarantee one of us would take the key with us because we were hiking together. If one decided to go back earlier than the other person would just give that person the key to go back.

So I have to assume that there was some kind of planning or forewarning that they would probably separate at some point. I am almost leaning towards them hiking in different directions right from the get go. Like you go check out the place you want to check out and Ill check out my place and we will just meet back here in about an hour or so. Whoever gets back first can get in the RV because key is stashed.

Or maybe some sort of argument happened before they even went on a hike and someone could have said something like "Im going to check it out and leave the key here in case you want to take a small hike yourself".

I have no idea of course but to me it would be strange to leave a key like that unless I already knew we were going to be separated. Why leave it there when you can just give it to the other person if one person decides to go back early.

I know everyone is different but this doesnt make much sense to me. I would be worried about someone finding the key and stealing the RV. The person is with me already so no need to hide any keys if both hike together at the beginning. Its just strange to me and I have to wonder if we are not hearing the whole story from that day.
Click to expand...
Good post.. Well thought out..
 
Who hikes drinking a beer anyway?

hiking2.jpg


MirrorLakeIPA.jpg


It's not like people write articles on beer drinking while hiking.

A Practical Guide to Drinking Beer While Hiking

How To Hike With Beer Like A Pro - Gear Up Hiking
 
Seajay said:
I am in no way victim shaming. I live in So. California, I have been to the Mojave Desert more times than I can count. Been to Bullhead, Needles, Vegas, etc., countless times. I know the area well.

I am in no way insulting or questioning her intelligence. And all any of us say here is “in the eye of the beholder “. Even you believing I am victim shaming is “in the eye of the beholder.” An opinion.

I’m just thinking in terms of with so much skin exposed in her chosen apparel, I would worry about sunburn, heat exhaustion, etc., as far as her being out there in the sun for any length of time. I’ve been thinking in terms of how her apparel would affect her health and well being in relationship to her disappearing or for whatever happened to her.
Click to expand...
Yes, considering she may have been out there for several days with no protection from the sun, it's unfortunate that her skin was so exposed.

However, she never intended to be out there for more than two hours, and was used to the heat, and had done it before many times over the years without incident so I don't think it was a problem for her. It was just something she liked to do.

Imo
 
MsBetsy said:
Yes, considering she may have been out there for several days with no protection from the sun, it's unfortunate that her skin was so exposed.

However, she never intended to be out there for more than two hours, and was used to the heat, and had done it before many times over the years without incident so I don't think it was a problem for her. It was just something she liked to do.

Imo
Click to expand...


Which is great, wonderful way to get a little sun and keep that California tan going. Unfortunately, she ended up out there way longer than she thought she would. I would also think that she would have sought some type of shade as it approached the hottest part of the day.
 
Seajay said:
Which is great, wonderful way to get a little sun and keep that California tan going. Unfortunately, she ended up out there way longer than she thought she would. I would also think that she would have sought some type of shade as it approached the hottest part of the day.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what RT thought too. He said he went back to the cave they had found earlier to see if she was there. Imo
 
Bikini for a Desert Walk?
Seajay said:
Exactly! Her being in that bikini, hiking, in the day, in the desert makes zero sense to me. Most hikers cover up. Even if she was headed towards water to cool down, she would have needed to cover up for her hike to get to the water source. The bikini thing bothers me, it’s just not practical on so many levels. IMO
Click to expand...
@Seajay :) A belated welcome to the discussion. ^ bbm ^
Bikini for a Desert Walk = "zero sense to me" and "bothers me, it’s just not practical."
That's fine, your opinion. I happen to agree w it, but I also understand making sense and being practical in all things sartorial do not factor into everyone's clothing/fashion choices. Some women do not restrict bikini's to the pool, river, lake, etc. Mohawk hair styles,platform shoes do not make sense, not prac. So?

Instead of 'sense' and 'practicality', I see these discussion points as most relevant, altho thru-out the threads, we have beat these (nearly?) to death, without complete resolution for many/all posters.:
1) Was BT actually wearing a bikini (or equiv, e.g., black bra & panty) that day?
2) Was that typical for her in like circumstance, e.g., away from home, not in/near water/pool. Yes/No?
3) If not known to wear bikini in like circumstance, what is significance, if any, of wearing it here/now?
4) If BT was not wearing bikini, what is significance, if any, of RT describing her clothing that way?

On 1), 3), and 4), IDK.
On 2), I think so.
Before reading earlier threads, I was a bit doubtful about anyone wearing a swimsuit or bikini in a situation like this walk. Our VI, fam member @dbdb11 posted & linked pix of BT in 2-piece swimsuit while in camp and/or on a trip where dbdb11 was also present. From this, I think wearing a bikini in this situation is not beyond the pale for her.
jmo, could be wrong.
 
Hatfield said:
JMO
I know the storing of the key near the RV was already discussed and was just thinking about that some more in relation to this case.

I have to say IMO that I would only do that if I knew in advance that one of us would want to come back to the RV before the other person.

If I was hiking with a partner and no matter who owned the RV I can almost guarantee one of us would take the key with us because we were hiking together. If one decided to go back earlier than the other person would just give that person the key to go back.

So I have to assume that there was some kind of planning or forewarning that they would probably separate at some point. I am almost leaning towards them hiking in different directions right from the get go. Like you go check out the place you want to check out and Ill check out my place and we will just meet back here in about an hour or so. Whoever gets back first can get in the RV because key is stashed.

Or maybe some sort of argument happened before they even went on a hike and someone could have said something like "Im going to check it out and leave the key here in case you want to take a small hike yourself".

I have no idea of course but to me it would be strange to leave a key like that unless I already knew we were going to be separated. Why leave it there when you can just give it to the other person if one person decides to go back early.

I know everyone is different but this doesnt make much sense to me. I would be worried about someone finding the key and stealing the RV. The person is with me already so no need to hide any keys if both hike together at the beginning. Its just strange to me and I have to wonder if we are not hearing the whole story from that day.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts, but then again, I do think it also possible they left behind a hidden key near their rv with the thinking it would be better so as not to accidentally drop it somewhere on their wilderness walk.

I know that when I do my hikes on trails in the hills near my home, I do carry my house key. I have it attached to the key clip that came attached inside the running belt I wear. But, I find myself obsessively feeling for it over and over again to see if it is still there. Just yesterday, I had a brief moment of panic when I didn’t feel the key’s presence in the belt. Turned out, it was there, but had shifted and moved a bit within the belt space. I hate having to worry about it. It does take away a bit from my enjoyment and focus on hiking.

Just telling my story to show that some hikers worry a lot about losing keys, and maybe hiding it feels like a solution worth doing. I don’t know that I would do it, but others do.

I mentioned earlier in Barbara’s threads that in the WS thread for the young woman runner lost on a Maui trail, other WS members opened my eyes to how some runners and other outdoor activity enthusiasts will hide their keys before their activity— on top of their car’s tire was one example of a hiding place, I learned.
 
That Pesky Key, Again?
Someone posted (paraphrasing, cannot find the post) to the effect: If BT & RT started the walk/hike together and intended to stay together, why didn't they keep the key with them, in a pocket or the pack? Leaving key under rock suggests that one of them intended to separate during the walk. Why leave it under a rock?

Possibilities:
1) One started the walk before the other, second one took key with him/her.
2) Both left together; one of them intended to separate, to be out longer.
3) Before starting walk, one or both thought: we'll put key under rock close by, because --
A) If one of us gets tired, thirsty, what-ev, and wants to return first, he/she will have access, no matter which one of us it is, and the other can walk around a bit longer.
B) It might easily fall out of pocket/out of pack/what-ev., and it would be difficult to find on the trail. Maybe darned difficult, close to impossible? (Backtracking a mile plus, to look for single key on chain dropped on ground w vegetation? Been there, done that.)
Just possibilities, jmo.

@10ofRods - Like you, I'm a member of HKURIABI camp (Hiding-Key-Under-Rock-Is-A-Bad-Idea). In our household, both of us have & carry vehicle & RV keys when we exit vehicle & RV. Lower chance of both of us losing both keys.We don't feel comfy leaving either key around, even if supposedly hidden.
 
Last edited:
@al66pine, we do the two key thing too. We're too familiar with criminal minds to trust that no one is watching us hide a key. When I lived on the West Mesa in Albuquerque, young thieves would go and sit adopt bluffs and look down at the houses, watch people leave, go kick in the door and steal electronics. It had been going on since the houses were built.

There are locals near some of the national parks (including Mojave) who go out there on weekends to see if they can relieve some of the tourists of their stuff (by car break-ins or thefts from campsites). It's not super common, but it's common enough that I wouldn't leave a key under a rock.

We also have backpacks with interior pockets, in which there is a place to clip the keys. We both use caribiners. I feel no need to check that it's there, just as long as I have my pack. The day I forget my backpack on a trail will of course be the day I make a call to my doctor about some cognitive testing, it'll be time to hang up my hiking poles.

If you take a good look at the parking area, you'll see that there aren't many big rocks right there. Not even fist sized rocks. You could find one nearby of course, and move it to the parking area, but to me, that would just be a compelling curiousity (if I saw a larger rock in the parking area, I'd go look at it - maybe some collected it, thinking it was cool, but decided to take another sample, maybe it'll have some interesting morphology to it).

People with dogs who are hyper curious might also find the key under a rock. But the real reason we'd never do it is that I'm not sure we could both remember exactly what rock we had put it under. Today, we'd take a cell picture, but Barbara didn't have a cell phone. Rocks can look a lot alike and a frustrated, hot hiker who wants to pee might very well decide to hit some nature further away from the road. Just saying.

Other possibilities include: in fact someone had found the key, waited for Barbara, and then kidnapped her (putting the key back to mystify everyone). Really unlikely.

So, unless I have the "pee theory" in mind, I don't think the key is particularly relevant. Even a non-confused, non-hot person who needs to pee might hurry off into the desert where there's no cholla to do so.
 
Hatfield said:
If I was hiking with a partner and no matter who owned the RV I can almost guarantee one of us would take the key with us because we were hiking together. If one decided to go back earlier than the other person would just give that person the key to go back.

So I have to assume that there was some kind of planning or forewarning that they would probably separate at some point. I am almost leaning towards them hiking in different directions right from the get go. Like you go check out the place you want to check out and Ill check out my place and we will just meet back here in about an hour or so. Whoever gets back first can get in the RV because key is stashed.
Click to expand...

SBM BBM

Yet my parents, and their RV club members all hid their keys outside of the RV and/or vehicles from as far back as I can remember.
As their children grew up and started RV'ing with them, they did the EXACT SAME THING and still do.

They don't hide a key in their RV or their vehicles. Nor do they carry the key with them.
The reasons are varied from "this is what we always have done" to "remember when xyz lost/forgot the key" stories. (There are numerous stories to pick from) so one would have their choice of stories.

Some even carried a special rock/container in their RV which was placed "outside" with the key in it.
It did not matter whether they were hiking, dirt biking, fishing.

It is just what they did then and still do
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 179 more.
Total: 4,461 (members: 180, guests: 4,281)

Online statistics

Members online
180
Guests online
4,281
Total visitors
4,461
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,381
Messages
17,968,240
Members
228,763
Latest member
MomTuTu
Back
Top