CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #8

[anneg]

Did the sleuther accidentally take the wrong trail, or did he just say it was possible to take a wrong turn? I can’t actually remember but thought he said you COULD take that wrong turn but you would end up at the highway rather than lost farther into the desert. If BT ended up back at the wrong place on the highway, I’d expect that she’d stay on the highway to continue back to the RV as that would likely be shorter than trying to go back via the trails. But who knows?

The sleuther also said the trail was obvious and well marked and I think also confirmed that the RV should have been visible basically all the time from the trail. I just have a lot of trouble seeing how she would have become lost in such a short time, assuming RT’s estimate is accurate.

IIRC, the first sleuther sroad posting about their visit to the location did not take the wrong trail, but said it was possible to continue straight and miss the turn. Then, there was a 2nd, different sleuther at the location on the trail who did briefly miss the turn that led back to the road. My apologies for not being able to find and quote the 2nd kind person’s very helpful post after sroad visited and wrote about the location

>>>The second sleuther cited in these posts is @iscaremyself. I had replied to one of his/her posts so was able to find the two posts below (pasted into this post) by him/her from Aug 23 below (I couldn't figure out how to quote them, sorry):

"I've been to those rocks..from ground level you can't see the road or even a semi driving by. The road is below natural terrain as much as 4 feet.

"I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout."

In my reply, I asked for clarification of the route iscaremyself had taken:

"Thank you for this description. I would be interested in seeing the route you took marked on a map. It sounds like when you went back south from the rocks and missed the main trail, you were on the pole line dirt road--is that right?

From its intersection with the main trail, the pole line road goes south a while (paralleling Kelbaker Rd) and then curves around the east side of another rock formation, although the pole line itself appears to go straight across the rocks, per the Google map. (If you zoom in on the map, you can see the poles.) The road then angles west for a short distance to meet the pole line, then south again and crosses Kelbaker. There appears to be another turnout there, which could have been very confusing to Barbara if she ended up there by mistake."

I didn't get a reply from iscaremyself, so I'm still not clear about the route taken.

Forgive me if this is hard to follow!

 

[firstsleuth]

Hmmm. I asked @sroad directly if that trail was obvious and he said yes. This all gets very confusing.

I just searched sroad’s posts and I think you are correct. Perhaps another (3rd) user posted the info about the possibility of missing the turn that I remembered. Thank you for your input!

ETA: I will search for the post I’m thinking of later when I have some more time and let you guys know if I can’t find it and I’m hallucinating...sorry for now and for not finding the links first

 

[10ofRods]

Hmmm. I asked @sroad directly if that trail was obvious and he said yes. This all gets very confusing.

Well, the main trail is obvious at first, but you can go back and look at the media thread to see the searchers at an intersection and the trail that is to the right (camera wise) is the north bound one to the dry creek bed (judging by the terrain and shadows). It looks like a trail to me. And there's a bush of some kind, IIRC, right in the middle of that intersection, and plants are starting to overgrow the trail just a little at that point, so...if she had gone down the side trail with RT (and then decided to go back), she would have come to that intersection. She'd have to remember which way to go, I think. I know the east/west trail is a bit bigger, but if she was in a hurry or impatient or RT had led the walk on the way out and she was just taking things in, she'd have had two choices of trail where she could still see the RV.

At what point would she notice she was not getting closer to the RV and what did she do then? They searched that area really closely, as far as I can tell. But if she did something unusual, all bets are off.

I don't think she walked back to those boulders, but the searchers spent a *lot* of time there, bringing in technical climbers on days 8 and 9.

 

[anneg]

I just searched sroad’s posts and I think you are correct. Perhaps another (3rd) user posted the info about the possibility of missing the turn that I remembered. Thank you for your input!

ETA: I will search for the post I’m thinking of later when I have some more time and let you guys know if I can’t find it and I’m hallucinating...sorry for now and for not finding the links first

My post above quotes the sleuther who missed the main trail... Sorry I failed to quote the post properly, but it was made on 8/23 by poster iscaremyself.

 

[Kapua]

A picture is worth 1000 words.

This is the area we are talking about.

Note: No tall trees to block the view, mostly cholla cactus. You would want to stay on the trail, IMHO.

 

[LAhiker]

View attachment 201612

Yep, that's it.

 

[RANCH]

View attachment 201612
A picture is worth 1000 words.

This is the area we are talking about.

Note: No tall trees to block the view, mostly cholla cactus. You would want to stay on the trail, IMHO.

I wonder how tall the cholla are in that spot? It's hard to tell from the picture in my opinion.

Chollas may appear as ground creepers, shrubs or trees, varying in height from less than a foot (Club or Devil Cholla) to as much as 15 feet (Chain-Fruit Cholla).

Read more: Cholla Cactus - DesertUSA

 

[Kapua]

I wonder how tall the cholla are in that spot? It's hard to tell from the picture in my opinion.



Read more: Cholla Cactus - DesertUSA

They ain't Sequoias.

 

[RANCH]

They ain't Sequoias.

Very funny.

I just measured the wheel track on my Explorer and it's 4 1/2 feet. That dirt road with the post in the center has to be at least 5 feet wide or more.

The post appears to me to be at least as tall as the track in the road so maybe 5 feet or so. It looks to me to be shorter than the surrounding vegetation.

I think that a person under 6 feet tall would have a hard time seeing over the vegetation. JMO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I wonder how tall the cholla are in that spot? It's hard to tell from the picture in my opinion.



Read more: Cholla Cactus - DesertUSA

I cant remember who told me, I asked that a bit ago. I was told about 3.5' tall.

 

[Curiousobserver]

>>>The second sleuther cited in these posts is @iscaremyself. I had replied to one of his/her posts so was able to find the two posts below (pasted into this post) by him/her from Aug 23 below (I couldn't figure out how to quote them, sorry):

"I've been to those rocks..from ground level you can't see the road or even a semi driving by. The road is below natural terrain as much as 4 feet.

"I took the trail then cut across north to the rocks. On the way back I went south looking to catch the trail. After 20 minutes I look back at the rocks. I don't remember them being that small. I had missed the trail and I was looking for it. I went West and caught the highway a quarter mile south of the turnout."

In my reply, I asked for clarification of the route iscaremyself had taken:

"Thank you for this description. I would be interested in seeing the route you took marked on a map. It sounds like when you went back south from the rocks and missed the main trail, you were on the pole line dirt road--is that right?

From its intersection with the main trail, the pole line road goes south a while (paralleling Kelbaker Rd) and then curves around the east side of another rock formation, although the pole line itself appears to go straight across the rocks, per the Google map. (If you zoom in on the map, you can see the poles.) The road then angles west for a short distance to meet the pole line, then south again and crosses Kelbaker. There appears to be another turnout there, which could have been very confusing to Barbara if she ended up there by mistake."

I didn't get a reply from iscaremyself, so I'm still not clear about the route taken.

Forgive me if this is hard to follow!

That is how she got lost (if she did get lost) and would be all-to-easy for her to have made that mistake.

She would have ended up far to the south at a place that looked very familiar (the turn around) and then she would have been terrified when nothing was there. She may have attempted to get back on her own or accepted a ride from someone at that point.

 

[10ofRods]

I wonder how tall the cholla are in that spot? It's hard to tell from the picture in my opinion.



Read more: Cholla Cactus - DesertUSA

The picture wasn't taken in a record-breaking year for rain. To see what the foliage is like right now, it's best to look at the media thread - SAR pictures. That's the picture from google maps.

Attached is a picture of the quarter mile mark (google). You can see some of the trails that are within about half a mile of the RV parking.

Do note that on the picture taken from the road (with the post), you can't see very far down the trail. And that first bend is quite slight. Note the other bends in the trail. He could have lost sight of her at any point between there and the pin that's dropped at the "intersection." But presumably, he headed up toward the dry creek bed (beyond which there are more trails - so who knows?)

Does he even know?

I do think something more happened than that she just casually walked back to the RV.

 

[RANCH]

I cant remember who told me, I asked that a bit ago. I was told about 3.5' tall.

Did this person measure the cholla at that location?

 

[10ofRods]

That was me. I measured the cholla against the human bodies standing next to the cholla. Lots of SAR pictures. About thigh/crotch high on average and some branches a little higher (not quite belly button). The searchers don't see to include any super tall people.

The cholla is that yellow, flower looking stuff. So sweet looking. It's bigger than it usually would be in July and it will shrivel some in the upcoming months. It can get taller than that, though. This one has survived for a while and gotten taller:

http://www.panamintcity.com/photographs/nova/image/teddy10.jpg

It's possible there are some that are that tall out by Kelbaker, I would love to go look and measure (and will get a chance, but not until early January).

 

[RANCH]

It would have been nice if someone parked their vehicle where the truck and RV were parked, walked to were RT said he lost sight of BT and took a photo towards their vehicle.

Then we would know for sure what the visibility is. JMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

That was me. I measured the cholla against the human bodies standing next to the cholla. Lots of SAR pictures. About thigh/crotch high on average and some branches a little higher (not quite belly button). The searchers don't see to include any super tall people.

The cholla is that yellow, flower looking stuff. So sweet looking. It's bigger than it usually would be in July and it will shrivel some in the upcoming months. It can get taller than that, though. This one has survived for a while and gotten taller:

http://www.panamintcity.com/photographs/nova/image/teddy10.jpg

It's possible there are some that are that tall out by Kelbaker, I would love to go look and measure (and will get a chance, but not until early January).

Thanks I just went blank on who answered me!

 

[bronbaby]

DBM

 

[dbdb11]

Is “prime suspect” = person of interest?

I did not provide this information to Namus.
Or at least, the info I provided them was a bit more objective.

 

[dbdb11]

Is it possible they (family) may be protecting her, by keeping her whereabouts a secret?
If it is possible that R Thomas had bad intentions, or a dangerous profession... then it is also possible that his wife needed to get away quickly.

It is possible RT has helped her to disappear. In our case, sadly, no. She did not reach out to us for any help. She did not voice any fears. And she has not turned up in HK, despite our prayers.

 

[K9Enzo]

I would recommend reaching out to Crimestoppers in the area she went missing. Perhaps they will put her information out as well. This will provide a phone number for anonymous tips that get turned over to LE.

Although I’m of the opinion this is not foul play, the fear and desperation from the VI is apparent for their loved one.