Found Deceased CA - Blaze Bernstein, 19, Lake Forest, 2 Jan 2018 #6 *Arrest*

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Anybody know if First Degree murder implies premeditation or hate crime?

TIA

They would have to have to prove premeditation to charge him with 1st degree murder I believe.

They could add special circumstances to first degree murder for the hate crime and it would be elevated to Capital Murder punishable by life without parole or death.

This is my understanding of CA law...someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I honestly don't think they have enough for the hate crime but we will see.



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This case reminds me so much of the Jodi Arias case. Ugh.


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I don’t believe this was a hate crime. I think it was a self-hate crime.
 
Very good points. A habitually carried knife could be an element of a "panic defense" in which the suspect could claim he just reached for a knife he routinely carried. This could reduce the element of pre-meditation to commit a crime.

If the suspect does not usually carry a knife and especially if it can be shown that the knife was deliberately carried that night, an argument of pre-meditation could be presented by the proscecutor.

The hard part is that pocket knives are carried in well, pockets and it can be hard to disprove an assertion by the defendent that he routinely carried a knife (even one with a locking blade).

I wonder when the suspect bought the knife. Didn't he fly to OC from the east coast? Though knives can be carried in checked luggage, a casual traveler may not know that. Maybe he bought the knife used shortly before the rendezvous with the victim.

As I mentioned earlier, I think an important distinction would be between folding knives with no locking mechanism, and knives with fixed or lockable blades. Would it be common for an Eagle Scout to carry the latter type of knife? Though I guess SW could claim he carried one as a hunter, if he does hunt.

I know the victim BB flew to OC from the east coast, but I hadn't heard that the suspect SW did so as well.
 
Anybody know if First Degree murder implies premeditation or hate crime?
TIA

Pre- meditation- yes. Hate crime, not necessarily. Hate Crime elements must be established separately from pre-meditation. This can be hard as it requires proving a defendant's state of mind.
 
As I mentioned earlier, I think an important distinction would be between folding knives with no locking mechanism, and knives with fixed or lockable blades. Would it be common for an Eagle Scout to carry the latter type of knife?
An Eagle scout would have the background of knives being seen as dedicated tools in addition to a convenience. A locking knife is far more of a dedicated tool. The scouting motto "Always be Prepared" can include having a good tool. Likewise, non locking blades are somewhat dangerous to use heavily and Scouting emphasizes safety.

Thus, I could see an Eagle scout as being more likely, perhaps distinctly more likely, to routinely carry a knife with a locking blade than a non scout. This might make establishing when it was purchased important towards determining pre meditation.
 
In response to above post:

Terribly sorry! Please explain?
Posts 504 and 578 (original post is gone for some reason). We seem to be talking in circles - you and I, and you and a few others. I thought I understood what you were saying, and you said no, that I didn't, and tried to explain it again, but I ended up coming to the same conclusion.

I'm so confused at this point that I'm not sure if we agree or disagree - because clearly there is a misunderstanding. I believe you may be frustrated because some are misunderstanding you, but I don't see what can be done about it since you have tried to explain again.

I'm also having a bad day in terms of finding my words (fibro fog), so I'm not the best person to explain this today. I struggled all morning with things I wanted to say in a different thread and could not grab the basic words I needed. Likely, I will be more on my game tomorrow.



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This case reminds me so much of the Jodi Arias case. Ugh.


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Agreed! I just hope they do not put the victim on trial like Travis Alexander.
Thank God there is only ONE Jodi Arias---I will never forget that trial and her cross examination on the witness stand. So Smug...oh well OT
 
As I mentioned earlier, I think an important distinction would be between folding knives with no locking mechanism, and knives with fixed or lockable blades. Would it be common for an Eagle Scout to carry the latter type of knife? Though I guess SW could claim he carried one as a hunter, if he does hunt.

I know the victim BB flew to OC from the east coast, but I hadn't heard that the suspect SW did so as well.
Most guys I know carry smooth edge folding pocket knives. I don't know what this generation carries. I used to always have a folding Buck knife in my car, but I have graduated to having a dozen locking blades that are partially serrated laying around - from the cheap, small ones you get at a hardware store for a couple of bucks, to this length here because they are useful for cutting twine and such. I usually have a knife and a multi-tool in my car console, but that's because of the life I lead out in the country. I'm usually more prepared than most of the guys I know in terms of having useful stuff.

What would a kid this age, with this background, in this area carry? IDK.
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Agreed! I just hope they do not put the victim on trial like Travis Alexander.
Thank God there is only ONE Jodi Arias---I will never forget that trial and her cross examination on the witness stand. So Smug...oh well OT

Exactly. I could see a similar defense playing out in this case. I don't think SW will come across as the innocent victim quite as well as Arias. Thankfully, the jury saw right through it in the end.




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Posts 504 and 578 (original post is gone for some reason). We seem to be talking in circles - you and I, and you and a few others. I thought I understood what you were saying, and you said no, that I didn't, and tried to explain it again, but I ended up coming to the same conclusion.

I'm so confused at this point that I'm not sure if we agree or disagree - because clearly there is a misunderstanding. I believe you may be frustrated because some are misunderstanding you, but I don't see what can be done about it since you have tried to explain again.

I'm also having a bad day in terms of finding my words (fibro fog), so I'm not the best person to explain this today. I struggled all morning with things I wanted to say in a different thread and could not grab the basic words I needed. Likely, I will be more on my game tomorrow.



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Brain Fog???? Now that I know about, LOL.

Yes you are right I am frustrated because from the posts I have replied to, I feel we are Not in agreement on the "original" statement by OBE.......but at this point who :nevermind:

You will be happy to know I am :truce:


IMO #504 post was the best way I know to describe it. They used to have a "beating a dead horse" imogee, can't find it, but that is where I am now.

No problem, sorry to have caused confusion and yes there was sarcasm mixed in my posts, thought it would not be noticed....Good for you! I will watch what I say from now on.

Hope you feel better Ms Kitty Golightley.

RUK:tyou:
 
I do. I come from an outdoorsy family. Hunting, fishing, camping. I'm oldest of 6. We all carry knives in our pockets or purses. I have a 4 inch buck knife and a Leatherman. I was a Girl Scout leader who taught knife safety and usage for building fires for camping or for uses around a campground.

None of us ever stabbed anyone though. To my knowledge neither did any of my former Girl Scouts.

I am a former Girl Scout leader too. Your post Seajay has made fond memories appear in my mind! especially of the knife safety courses, the singing competitions and the knitting club.

I always carry a Swiss army knife and a mini pepper spray on my keychain.

I got attacked on my second year at university in England (1999) fortunately nothing too serious happened to me -just lots of bruises from trying to defend myself but two boys leaving the uni library not too far by came running to the rescue because they heard me screaming and the perp ran off- but I think everybody, female or male, should carry something for protection. In any country. It makes me you feel a little bit more secure.

Jmo.
 
Brain Fog???? Now that I know about, LOL.

Yes you are right I am frustrated because from the posts I have replied to, I feel we are Not in agreement on the "original" statement by OBE.......but at this point who :nevermind:

You will be happy to know I am :truce:


IMO #504 post was the best way I know to describe it. They used to have a "beating a dead horse" imogee, can't find it, but that is where I am now.

No problem, sorry to have caused confusion and yes there was sarcasm mixed in my posts, thought it would not be noticed....Good for you! I will watch what I say from now on.

Hope you feel better Ms Kitty Golightley.

RUK:tyou:

I missed your post concerning my post. Would you please tell me what you disagreed with so maybe I can clarify or respond? I dont have the time to go back through all of the thread to find it.

Thanks.

ETA: Never mind. When I have a lot more time I will go back and find your post where you are in disagreement with me.
 
Brain Fog???? Now that I know about, LOL.

Yes you are right I am frustrated because from the posts I have replied to, I feel we are Not in agreement on the "original" statement by OBE.......but at this point who :nevermind:

You will be happy to know I am :truce:


IMO #504 post was the best way I know to describe it. They used to have a "beating a dead horse" imogee, can't find it, but that is where I am now.

No problem, sorry to have caused confusion and yes there was sarcasm mixed in my posts, thought it would not be noticed....Good for you! I will watch what I say from now on.

Hope you feel better Ms Kitty Golightley.

RUK:tyou:

I looked at post 504 and i disagree that someone (even of the opposite sex) surprise kissing someone does not justify murder.
 
I am a former Girl Scout leader too. Your post Seajay has made fond memories appear in my mind! especially of the knife safety courses, the singing competitions and the knitting club.

I always carry a Swiss army knife and a mini pepper spray on my keychain.

I got attacked on my second year at university in England (1999) fortunately nothing too serious happened to me -just lots of bruises from trying to defend myself but two boys leaving the uni library not too far by came running to the rescue because they heard me screaming and the perp ran off- but I think everybody, female or male, should carry something for protection. In any country. It makes me you feel a little bit more secure.

Jmo.

Glad it brought back great memories for you. I loved my G.S. days and my G.S. leader days.

True story that's kinda funny. I was teaching knife safety to my troop and had the girls bring their own knives. Inevitably, someone would forget so I brought mine to demonstrate and two extras for the girls who would forget to bring theirs. (They were 11 & 12 year olds.). I did th knife lesson that day.

That night I had to drive to LAX to pick my husband up who had been on a business trip. In those days, before 9/11, when you went through security if you had a knife in your pocket, they took it, marked it for you and kept it, you had to collect it on your way out.

So I go through security and I buzz. I have security in me wanting to know why. I remember my buck knife and take it out of my pocket. I check it In with security and explain I'm a G.S. leader, had knife safety courses and forgot I had it. They make me go through again. I buzz again, I set back over to security and pull two more pocket knives out of my back pocket and hand them to him. The security guard looks at me and say "Lady, I do not believe your story about being a Girl Scout leader, no one carries three pocket knives." He gave me back my first knife and made me go back to my car and put them in my vehicle before I was allowed into the airport.

Never again, I always remembered when my knife was in my pocket or purse and left it in the car.
 
Back to the knife discussion and establishing whether or not SW normally carried one. That might be hard to prove, unless he showed it off all the time. Like I said, I've carried one since I was about 19 years old and most people who knew me had no idea I did unless I needed to use it in front of them for something, lik cutting twine, rope, opening up packages or a box that was sealed tight. No clue, some were shocked when I first would bring it out.

So unless he broadcast it, how would people know? My Dad, brothers, son, nephews all carry one.
 
How would it have any bearing on the trial or the case? All of that information is going to be introduced to a jury at trial anyway or in a public PH unless SW waives it. It will be interesting to see if he and his attorneys decide to waive a speedy trial which of course is his constitutional right to waive it or demand a speedy trial.

I am sure the attorneys know how to weed out those who may already have biases. I truly think the jury will go by the evidence entered in a courtroom and set aside anything they have read about the case.

Many cases are high profile nowadays and have leaks to the media about them but it is a different matter imo when jurors swear to uphold the law and go strictly by the evidence heard from the witness stand only.

I think by the time this goes to trial the DA/LE will have an overwhelming amount of evidence amassed against the accused murderer.

I am not worried about Blaze or his family not seeing justice done in this case.

I think most logical and reasonable people already know a person cant murder someone just because they may have said something they didn't like or tried to kiss them.

SW knew without a doubt Blaze was a gay man. He was not forced to pick him up. All he had to do is say no and he wasn't interested and that would have been that. He had a choice and he made that choice.

Imo, the reason he did he had premeditated a plan to murder Blaze all along. That is why he went, and that is why he had a lethal knife in his possession at the time that he used to stab Blaze over 20 times. He had probably fantasized about murdering Blaze for a long time.

I want to know how the contacts were made and when it started and by whom. Did he catfish Blaze into believing he was meeting someone else and SW had the knife when he picked Blaze up and forced him into his vehicle by using a threatening deadly weapon?

SW knew Blaze would be no match for him with him being such a small non-violent passive person. I think SW targeted Blaze for the purpose of killing him all along. He chose Blaze because he saw him as gentle and non-threatening.

I believe before its all over this will become a hate crime and a premeditated one at that. IMO

IMO

I am quoting my own post since it seems this one is the one RUK has problems with.

My posts are always my personal opinions as noted.

I meant, IMO, any reasonable and logical juror is not going to give a pass to a murder suspect simply because they say the victim may have tried to kiss them or may have said something to others they didn't like. I have been 'hit on', groped, assaulted, and had three attempted rapes during my lifetime. Even at my age now, I have had two sex stalkers on FB yet not one person was harmed by me and certainly not murdered nor will they ever be.

Sure murderers can murder for whatever reasons they choose, and unfortunately they do. But it still never means the jury will buy the motive as a viable excuse why the victim had to be murdered. I thought it was clear to everyone that is what I was saying, but evidently not.

SW can use any defense he wants, but IMOO attacking/repeatedly stabbing, and murdering a victim much smaller than him shows SW had no reason to feel threatened by Blaze at any time or even fear him in the first place. I honestly don't even see a viable defense for this case but that is JMO. Blaze was unarmed. The murderer had a deadly weapon with him and used it to murder. SW outweighed the victim by 50 pounds and was much taller and we certainly know he was much meaner since he murdered Blaze in such a cruel manner.

SW was not forced to pick Blaze up and if he was offended at any period they were together (although we know he lies with ease) he simply could have taken Blaze home or put him out right there, and let him walk home. SW had a choice.......to stay or leave. He also had a choice of never picking Blaze up in the first place since he knew Blaze was gay and seems to have had deep seeded hatred against him since he wanted to call him a disparaging word. IMO, if the truth was known he probably did use that word and others when he was murdering him.

IMO, there is simply no legal excuse or motive that I can see that will ever justify the cruel murder he perpetrated against Blaze who was a defenseless victim.

If someone has an idea that they think would work in SW favor at trial, I would certainly be interested in reading it. I still wouldn't be surprised if this case is elevated to a hate crime once the investigation reveals all of the evidence.

I saw a link about 'panic defense.' I haven't had time to read the link on what that means in CA, but will do when more time is available.

IMO
 
I am quoting my own post since it seems this one is the one RUK has problems with.

My posts are always my personal opinions as noted.

I meant, IMO, any reasonable and logical juror is not going to give a pass to a murder suspect simply because they say the victim may have tried to kiss them or may have said something to others they didn't like.

Sure murderers can murder for whatever reasons they choose, and unfortunately they do. But it still never means the jury will buy the motive as a viable excuse why the victim had to be murdered. I thought it was clear to everyone that is what I was saying, but evidently not.

SW can use any defense he wants, but IMOO attacking/repeatedly stabbing, and murdering a victim much smaller than him shows SW had no reason to feel threatened by Blaze at any time or even fear him in the first place. I honestly don't even see a viable defense for this case but that is JMO.

SW was not forced to pick Blaze up and if he was offended at any period they were together (although we know he lies with ease) he simply could have taken Blaze home or put him out right there, and let him walk home. SW had a choice.......to stay or leave. He also had a choice of never picking Blaze up in the first place since he knew Blaze was gay and seems to have had deep seeded hatred against him since he wanted to call him a disparaging word. IMO, if the truth was known he probably did use that word and others when he was murdering him.

IMO, there is simply no legal excuse or motive that I an see that will ever justify the cruel murder he perpetrated against Blaze who was a defenseless victim.

If someone has an idea that they think would work in SW favor at trial, I would certainly be interested in reading it. I still wouldn't be surprised if this case is elevated to a hate crime once the investigation reveals all of the evidence.

I saw a link about 'panic defense.' I haven't had time to read the link on what that means in CA, but will do when more time is available.

IMO

IMO

Gay/trans panic is not an allowed defense in california

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense

The gay panic defense has been banned in California and Illinois only, but the American Bar Association has suggested that other states follow their lead.[21] In 2006, California amended its penal code to include jury instructions to ignore bias, sympathy, prejudice, or public opinion in making their decision, and a directive was made to educate district attorneys' offices about panic strategies and how to prevent bias from affecting trial outcomes.[22][23] On September 27, 2014, Governor Jerry Brown signed Assembly Bill No. 2501, making California the first state in the USA to ban the gay and trans panic defense.[24] AB 2501 states that discovery of, knowledge about, or potential disclosure of the victim's actual or perceived gender, gender identity, gender expression, or sexual orientation does not, by itself, constitute sufficient provocation to justify a lesser charge of voluntary manslaughter.[25] In August 2017, Illinois governor Bruce Rauner signed a bill eliminating the gay and trans panic defense in that state.[26]
 
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