CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #13

[Oriah]

I digress also, and I apologize for that- but I feel the need to return to the key situation (collective groan, I know...) But does anyone know if Mr. Harrod had a house key made for FH ? And if so, did he do it himself or did someone else have them made for him? Or did he give her someone elses set of keys?

If he had keys made or borrowed, or gave her a spare set, what locks were they for?

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks for the clarification about the meeting; saved me a long thread search.

Accounts of events the day Bob disappeared again.*

11.45, PB calls Bob and hears JeM say he is going out.

12.00 CL arrives and Bob is gone, JeM is returning.

12.00 or 1.00 JuM is on record as saying was the likely time Bob disappeared. If she were to confirm it was the earlier time then we have;

PB
JeM
CL
JuM

All supporting a line of events that has Bob in the house at 11.45 and gone by 12.00.

These times are not confirmed, but if they ever are and people do not/cannot change them, whoever abducted Bob would have had to be very close by. There was only about 15 minutes to do it in.

 

[believe09]

Thanks for the clarification about the meeting; saved me a long thread search.

Accounts of events the day Bob disappeared again.*

11.45, PB calls Bob and hears JeM say he is going out.

12.00 CL arrives and Bob is gone, JeM is returning.

12.00 or 1.00 JuM is on record as saying was the likely time Bob disappeared. If she were to confirm it was the earlier time then we have;

PB
JeM
CL
JuM

All supporting a line of events that has Bob in the house at 11.45 and gone by 12.00.

These times are not confirmed, but if they ever are and people do not/cannot change them, whoever abducted Bob would have had to be very close by. There was only about 15 minutes to do it in.

Imagine-the only possible 15 minutes in that day for Bob to disappear and he does. And it's foul play and it isnt a stranger crime and BL +family were cleared.

 

[zwiebel]

To speculate who could have been close enough to get in and out in 15 minutes is hard.

AH and JeM themselves kind of preclude any passing burglar/deranged killer. JeM couldn't have noticed anything amiss in the house or he'd have raised the alarm.
AH confirmed to LE during the welfare check that nothing seemed amiss.

There is the mysterious black car JeM was reported (secondhand) to have seen. LE haven't issued an appeal to trace it though, it doesn't appear on Bob's reward poster and I don't think it's on his fbp either. I don't think there were any family media appeals for sightings of it either.

Unless JeM himself comes forward to confirm his sighting, I really don't think we can take this as anything more than rumour.

So it's back to wondering who could have been close enough to get in and out of Bob's house - with Bob - in such a short amount of time. Leaving everything as undisturbed as if they'd just dropped in for a cup of tea.

 

[Oriah]

Imagine-the only possible 15 minutes in that day for Bob to disappear and he does. And it's foul play and it isnt a stranger crime and BL +family were cleared.

believe09, jumping off your post- Mr. Harrod's disappearance was determined likely foul play by LE. Do we know what the actual single determining factor was in that declaration?

 

[believe09]

believe09, jumping off your post- Mr. Harrod's disappearance was determined likely foul play by LE. Do we know what the actual single determining factor was in that declaration?

I do not. I dont know what caused the status change-it was transferred to Homicide IIRC earlier on, but I am not sure when.

If it happened fairly quickly then I would say there was a certain skepticism early on by LE to what they were hearing, but that is JMVHO, or they found something pretty definitive.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks believe09. It would be interesting to know what specific evidence turned Mr. Harrod's disappearance into a possible homicide. Even if it was just a hunch from a detective, physical evidence, or a tip, etc. I think I'll try and research that a little.

 

[zwiebel]

I wonder if we could trace the status change? If we were lucky enough to have a msm interview with LE one day still pursuing the 'voluntary' missing theory, and then a day or two later a mention (if not a formal announcement) of possible foul play.

Only thing I can see wrong with this idea is it would mean someone reading through all the articles. So now I think it's a stupid idea, but I'm the one who thought of it.

 

[zwiebel]

Thanks believe09. It would be interesting to know what specific evidence turned Mr. Harrod's disappearance into a possible homicide. Even if it was just a hunch from a detective, physical evidence, or a tip, etc. I think I'll try and research that a little.

Snap!

 

[zwiebel]

Could this be it?



July 31st - Det Loomis: "I don't know that we have a working theory"

July 31st - Sgt Scott Millsap: "..dispute in the family as to whether or not Harrod even suffers from dementia"

1st August - Det Loomis: "Certain he was not abducted by a stranger..........the groom may have fled"

Feb 2nd, 2010 - "A family member told media that Bob was showing early signs of dementia. Detectives who interviewed his doctor say Bob was of sound mind," Loomis said....they're now treating the case as a possible homicide.'

Feb 5th, 2010 - Det Loomis: "...little new information to disclose publicly...still no named suspects or evidence that a crime had been committed........confirmed that police were using a lie detector test"

 

[zwiebel]

Three days after the first announcement I found about the doctor interview and homicide investigation, police announce lie detector tests.

ETA - it looks to me as though LE had deep concerns about whoever gave them the dementia theory.

 

[Oriah]

Could this be it?



July 31st - Det Loomis: "I don't know that we have a working theory"

July 31st - Sgt Scott Millsap: "..dispute in the family as to whether or not Harrod even suffers from dementia"

1st August - Det Loomis: "Certain he was not abducted by a stranger..........the groom may have fled"

Feb 2nd, 2010 - "A family member told media that Bob was showing early signs of dementia. Detectives who interviewed his doctor say Bob was of sound mind," Loomis said....they're now treating the case as a possible homicide.'

Feb 5th, 2010 - Det Loomis: "...little new information to disclose publicly...still no named suspects or evidence that a crime had been committed........confirmed that police were using a lie detector test"

Not to detract yet again...but I have always wondered if the individuals taking polys were under the influence of any sort of substance. Seems to be the biggest reason polys are so often thrown out.
I wonder if anyone disclosed that info- like a family member?

 

[zwiebel]

I have read all our links now and this is what I've got. Sorry for jumping the ... earlier. I've bolded bits I think give a clue. Any ideas anyone else, what the tipping point for the homicide investigation might have been?

July 30th - "Other than Harrod's wallet and keys, no other items appear to be missing," RB said'.

July 31st - Det Loomis: "I don't know that we have a working theory"

July 31st - Sgt Scott Millsap: "..dispute in the family as to whether or not Harrod even suffers from dementia".....They don't suspect foul play but they haven't ruled anything out.'

1st August - Det Loomis: "Certain he was not abducted by a stranger..........the groom may have fled"

26th August - '"Since the beginning, investigators have approached Harrod's disappearance as a homicide",said Det Loomis.'

26th August - ' "We have a search warrant for phone records......Loomis said'"

26th August - 'FH: "The case is being investigated as a homicide.....This is what I was told".

8th Oct - ' "We've treated this as a homicide investigation,' said Placentia Police Chief Jim Anderson. "But JeM's story checks out and neither he nor any of the daughters are suspects in the disappearance," Loomis said.'

Feb 2nd, 2010 - "A family member told media that Bob was showing early signs of dementia. Detectives who interviewed his doctor say Bob was of sound mind," Loomis said....they're now treating the case as a possible homicide.' Police have cleared the BL and her husband of any connection with the case.'

Feb 5th, 2010 - Det Loomis: "...little new information to disclose publicly...still no named suspects or evidence that a crime had been committed........confirmed that police were using a lie detector test"

Feb 7th, 2010 - "They have worked to nail down alibis for the people around him," Loomis said. The younger woman with whom Bob had a relationship has a solid alibi. JeM, reportedly the last person to have seen Bob, has receipts verifying he was at Home Depot around the time he said he was"

Note: within the articles I have seen quotes saying JeM told LE his shopping trip was 1.30, 2pm and 3pm, and likewise that JeM stated to LE the housekeeper arrived at 2pm/3pm.

 

[zwiebel]

July 31st - They (LE) don't suspect foul play.

August 26th - Since the beginning, investigators have approached Harrod's disappearance as a homicide.

????? This has confused me.

 

[zwiebel]

I am glad to see that LE, AH, JeM and RB have all confirmed that nothing was missing from the house and/or nothing seemed amiss to them.

I think that just about rules out any predatory stranger passing by.

 

[GrainneDhu]

"That my note was to be forgiven on his death or...." (AH, deposition. Sentence left unfinished by AH)

Bob disappeared July 27th, 2009.

AH ceased repayments on the 'note' Bob held in August, 2009.

Which was only FOUR days later. Seems a little soon for a man who said that his grandfather was capable of disappearing without his car.

 

[GrainneDhu]

8th Oct - ' "We've treated this as a homicide investigation,' said Placentia Police Chief Jim Anderson. "But JeM's story checks out and neither he nor any of the daughters are suspects in the disappearance," Loomis said.'

SBM

If you take this quote literally then combine it with the facts that PPD has said that BL and her husband were both cleared and that this was not a crime committed by a stranger... well, that points pretty directly to the one person who is not JeM or a daughter of Bob Harrod.

Maybe AH isn't such a dark horse as I thought.

 

[Oriah]

Maybe not such a dark horse at all.

I really wonder if it's possible AH was framed. He doesn't have the most clean record; but that certainly doesn't preclude anyone else for setting him up. I mean, there's little doubt to me that he was the fall guy- but who put him in that position? Or did he possibly put himself in that position? Idk, but I am stuck on keys and timelines and statements to LE and...well, everything.

 

[zwiebel]

SBM

If you take this quote literally then combine it with the facts that PPD has said that BL and her husband were both cleared and that this was not a crime committed by a stranger... well, that points pretty directly to the one person who is not JeM or a daughter of Bob Harrod.

Maybe AH isn't such a dark horse as I thought.

I missed that completely. My jaw is hitting the floor now. I wrote it out and didn't even see it.

 

[zwiebel]

Just to remind everyone, the people in a position to confirm only 15 minutes for Bob to have gone missing are, respectively;
PB - Aunt of AH
JeM - Father of AH
CL - no relation
JuM - Mother of AH.