CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[MyNameIsGron]

Because of her Chinese background, I believe she was raised to be a quiet and submissive girl.

Also, it's very possible that she did scream. I've read comments of people who stayed there saying that the place was filled with crazy people that were screaming at all hours of the day and night.

And, if I'm right about her eyesight being impaired that night, she really couldn't see where he leading her.

Sorry, but there's really no merit to this and based on her blog, she seems more headstrong than these racial stereotypes. Not all Chinese women are "raised to be a quiet and submissive girl." Furthermore, she talks about how people consider her "too energetic" and she seems like a lot to handle. She doesn't come across as quiet and submissive at all.

 

[kunibob]

For the all four limbs broken thing, was this in one of the articles trying to spin it as a supernatural story? With "4" being such an unlucky number and all four limbs broken = a mysterious/unnatural occurrence, could that possibly have been flavour rather than fact?

Because of her Chinese background, I believe she was raised to be a quiet and submissive girl.

Also, it's very possible that she did scream. I've read comments of people who stayed there saying that the place was filled with crazy people that were screaming at all hours of the day and night.

And, if I'm right about her eyesight being impaired that night, she really couldn't see where he leading her.

Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree with Elisa being submissive just because of her race. I think that may be a misconception that Chinese automatically means submissive. As far as anecdata goes I can definitely confirm that in my circle of Canadian-born-Chinese friends here in Vancouver, my girlfriends are FAR from submissive. Given Elisa's purported strong personality type (as per her blog & eyewitness reports), I personally have a hard time seeing her as submissive.

 

[FutzBucket]

.

The idea that he would mug her, walk her up,stairs and leave her in a tank to die, just doesn't fit. It doesn't make sense, and not just viewing him from a sane persons perspective, but it doesn't make sense for a crazy criminal. Someone that disturbed would want more from their victim.

Of course it doesn't make sense to you; you're sane! There are people out there that don't think your life is worth the money in your pocket. There are people out there that don't think your life is worth even that.

Skid Row is literally filled with these people.

He didn't really kill her, because he mugged her. He killed her, because she annoyed him. He just wanted her to leave, and she didn't, so he marched her up to the tank, and closed her inside.

To this person, EL was an annoyance that needed to go away. That's all she was to him.

 

[ThinkHard]

From reading the Tumblr posts (I'm assuming most people believe this is EL's Tumblr), it appears that EL may have had some form of bipolar disorder. Most of the posts I read in Dec/Jan seem down in nature. Some of the drivers could be a breakup mid Dec, a non-relationship in mid Jan, work stress in late Dec. There were periods of happiness, however. This would be in line with her bouncy/happy nature at the Toronto hostel.

Dec 9: "It’s my last hours at this amazing hostel and I will miss the staff very much and the beautiful lounge. I am very happy to have met all the German, Australian, English, Irish, Korean, 1 Swede, 1 Austrian, 1 Iranian and all the other nationalities that drifted through here. " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37563486528/its-my-last-hours-at-this-amazing-hostel-and-i)

Dec 10: "GOOD GOD I HAVE BEEN UNBELIEVABLY FORTUNATE" ... "Anyways I am happy I got to take this trip" <- to Toronto/Ontario (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37604546455/the-end-is-near-more-so-its-my-final-48)

Dec 11: "Toronto you have enchanted me and I have made so many wonderful discoveries and met some amazing people. I could not ask for more from any city or any place." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37689971552/toronto-you-have-enchanted-me-and-i-have-made-so)

However, I find many more depressing postings. For example, check out:
Jan 9 (in Montreal, quite a nice posting actually): http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40088596226/more-im-privatizing-the-living-crap-out-of

Dec 30: "is feeling really alone and lonely

Not an uncommon feeling but I’m not taking it very well

perhaps the breakup is finally manifesting itself and it’s settled into reality that I am alone once again" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

Jan 4: "Sometimes it hurts a lot and it overwhelms me

There is no explanation, no cause to point and blame.

It just takes over and you’re helpless." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39648081968/sometimes-it-hurts-a-lot-and-it-overwhelms-me)

Interestingly, there are a few posts that infer problems sleeping:
Dec 21: "Anyways, I haven’t been idle and doing nothing on the internet and not sleeping when I should be sleeping and sleeping when I should be in bed." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/38458710384/insomniasss-more-i-figured-out-where-i)

Jan 3: "Since 2013 I have accomplished one thing:

Dec 30: "sleep is absolutely crap; only 5-6 hours at most and then I wake up and catch maybe another 2-3 so interrupted at best" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

sleep for 40 hours" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39530134336/since-2013-i-have-accomplished-one-thing-sleep)

Interestingly, when I read about EL's loud/strange behavior prior to her disappearance (was it at a book store or record store? she seemed to be into books, buying a bunch from her trip to eastern Canada), I think of the following posts which make me think that's how she sometimes was:
"My main faults are that I talk too much, I have a naturally loud voice and I have no filter.

Outspoken, rude, blunt, arrogant, judgmental etc etc you know all the bad stuff a jerk is

I’m fine if I don’t open my mouth but as soon as I do and start talking, I can get in trouble because people hear what I say out of context and immediately get offended " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40665271673/more-my-main-faults-are-that-i-talk-too-much)

Jan 9: "I really need to be removed from society before my big mouth gets me in trouble and I get beaten up." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40067473296/more-i-really-need-to-be-removed-from-society)

Interesting, that last post you had of hers really doesn't sound like she would act like a submissive lamb when confronted with danger.

 

[MyNameIsGron]

For the all four limbs broken thing, was this in one of the articles trying to spin it as a supernatural story? With "4" being such an unlucky number and all four limbs broken = a mysterious/unnatural occurrence, could that possibly have been flavour rather than fact?



Respectfully, I'm not sure I agree with Elisa being submissive just because of her race. I think that may be a misconception that Chinese automatically means submissive. As far as anecdata goes I can definitely confirm that in my circle of Canadian-born-Chinese friends here in Vancouver, my girlfriends are FAR from submissive. Given Elisa's purported strong personality type (as per her blog & eyewitness reports), I personally have a hard time seeing her as submissive.

You said it way better than I did. I was just shaking my head at the OP because that theory totally ignores all the other clues and evidence we have about her.

 

[Tonto]

I think if she was murdered in a typical manner (gunshot/stabbing) we would know by now. I also think that if she did not drown (re:no water in the lungs) we would know by now. All of those would indicate foul play. However, if she drowned, then it makes more sense that they cannot determine how she did and are moving forward with tox results to rule out drugs as a contributory cause. This also means that it is just as likely (50/50) that she wasn't murdered and suffered a bizarre accident of some sort.

 

[LI-LI]

Yes, I am a night owl, tend to get hungry around 12-1 in the morning for a snack, and can say with absolute certainty that I have on at least one occasion done that exact thing. Yes, even in a sketchy hotel, especially when I was in my teens- 20's because I always thought, nah, nothing can happen to me, I'll only be a minute. I still go about and explore new places to this day in the middle of the night, but when I am roaming around I do tend to wear my contacts. Not always if I am just going down the hall or a floor or two below/above looking for a snack or soda machine though. This whole thing has creeped me out, so doubt I'll be doing that anymore.

Then I wonder where she was going without her glasses on. I suspect she wouldn't be visiting someone or going to the roof to explore around, if she can't see, why wander around? There is nothing to eat in the hotel, why go to the kitchen and even at a longer distance (kitchen on the 14th floor)?

 

[smash the stack]

Originals are gone.. uploaded these from my cache.. still missing 4 of the original images.

 

[FutzBucket]

If we actually catch this guy and he actually admits to the crime, I bet his only reason to why he locked her in the tank will be, "I told her to leave, and she wouldn't".

 

[ThinkHard]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you; you're sane! There are people out there that don't think your life is worth the money in your pocket. There are people out there that don't think your life is worth even that.

Skid Row is literally filled with these people.

He didn't really kill her, because he mugged her. He killed her, because she annoyed him. He just wanted her to leave, and she didn't, so he marched her up to the tank, and closed her inside.

To this person, EL was an annoyance that needed to go away. That's all she was to him.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the strength in your theory, and its a little offensive that you keep assuming the only reason no one follows your theory is only because we are sane.

It is actually my job to get into the heads of people who due to various issues think very differently then I do, and to work with these individuals, to reach them, to teach them, and I am very good at understanding them, and their motivations, and impulses, and stressors, even though theirs are not the same as mine.

I've given your theory a lot of thought, and no amount of convincing is going to make it make sense to me, I simply do not see it being likely.

But I applaud your fortitude on sticking to your guns.

 

[samevo8]

Forgot to add one more thing that I found interesting (maybe not to be read too deeply, but I do wonder about her behavior at the store and in the elevator video in light of):

Dec 6, on how to meet people:
"How to meet people (and possibly make friends) in TWO easy steps!
You go up to them and SHOUT talk very quickly with a maniacal smile.
and then run away.
****IMPORTANT to note in step 2 to walk quickly away but not literally run. Just change locations (away from the scene of the crime), highly suggested is a location where there are sitting things that don’t face each other."
(http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/...-meet-people-and-possibly-make-friends-in-two)

From reading the Tumblr posts (I'm assuming most people believe this is EL's Tumblr), it appears that EL may have had some form of bipolar disorder. Most of the posts I read in Dec/Jan seem down in nature. Some of the drivers could be a breakup mid Dec, a non-relationship in mid Jan, work stress in late Dec. There were periods of happiness, however. This would be in line with her bouncy/happy nature at the Toronto hostel.

Dec 9: "It’s my last hours at this amazing hostel and I will miss the staff very much and the beautiful lounge. I am very happy to have met all the German, Australian, English, Irish, Korean, 1 Swede, 1 Austrian, 1 Iranian and all the other nationalities that drifted through here. " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37563486528/its-my-last-hours-at-this-amazing-hostel-and-i)

Dec 10: "GOOD GOD I HAVE BEEN UNBELIEVABLY FORTUNATE" ... "Anyways I am happy I got to take this trip" <- to Toronto/Ontario (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37604546455/the-end-is-near-more-so-its-my-final-48)

Dec 11: "Toronto you have enchanted me and I have made so many wonderful discoveries and met some amazing people. I could not ask for more from any city or any place." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/37689971552/toronto-you-have-enchanted-me-and-i-have-made-so)

However, I find many more depressing postings. For example, check out:
Jan 9 (in Montreal, quite a nice posting actually): http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40088596226/more-im-privatizing-the-living-crap-out-of

Dec 30: "is feeling really alone and lonely

Not an uncommon feeling but I’m not taking it very well

perhaps the breakup is finally manifesting itself and it’s settled into reality that I am alone once again" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

Jan 4: "Sometimes it hurts a lot and it overwhelms me

There is no explanation, no cause to point and blame.

It just takes over and you’re helpless." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39648081968/sometimes-it-hurts-a-lot-and-it-overwhelms-me)

Interestingly, there are a few posts that infer problems sleeping:
Dec 21: "Anyways, I haven’t been idle and doing nothing on the internet and not sleeping when I should be sleeping and sleeping when I should be in bed." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/38458710384/insomniasss-more-i-figured-out-where-i)

Jan 3: "Since 2013 I have accomplished one thing:

Dec 30: "sleep is absolutely crap; only 5-6 hours at most and then I wake up and catch maybe another 2-3 so interrupted at best" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39160279976/more-i-have-a-jumble-of-emotions-and-its)

sleep for 40 hours" (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/39530134336/since-2013-i-have-accomplished-one-thing-sleep)

Interestingly, when I read about EL's loud/strange behavior prior to her disappearance (was it at a book store or record store? she seemed to be into books, buying a bunch from her trip to eastern Canada), I think of the following posts which make me think that's how she sometimes was:
"My main faults are that I talk too much, I have a naturally loud voice and I have no filter.

Outspoken, rude, blunt, arrogant, judgmental etc etc you know all the bad stuff a jerk is

I’m fine if I don’t open my mouth but as soon as I do and start talking, I can get in trouble because people hear what I say out of context and immediately get offended " (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40665271673/more-my-main-faults-are-that-i-talk-too-much)

Jan 9: "I really need to be removed from society before my big mouth gets me in trouble and I get beaten up." (http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/40067473296/more-i-really-need-to-be-removed-from-society)

 

[Sillybilly]

It's not that I don't believe she was the victim of a crazy resident or even staff of the hotel, that I do believe.

But there are criminal sex offenders. And what I don't believe is well for one that some one was mugging her and had her at gun point by the elevator. I see no evidence of that at all.

But furthermore if said crazy wanted to harm her, I would think he would want more with her then to just walk her up the stairs and put her in a tank.

I would think he would target her as a victim, have his way with her, and then kill her, and dispose the body.

The idea that he would mug her, walk her up,stairs and leave her in a tank to die, just doesn't fit. It doesn't make sense, and not just viewing him from a sane persons perspective, but it doesn't make sense for a crazy criminal. Someone that disturbed would want more from their victim.

I was responding to your post, not to Futz's entire theory.. ITA that it's far more likely that a sexual motive was involved than a mugging.

 

[smash the stack]

Got the other 4.. uploaded them to imgur.

 

[FutzBucket]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I don't see the strength in your theory, and its a little offensive that you keep assuming the only reason no one follows your theory is only because we are sane.

It is actually my job to get into the heads of people who due to various issues think very differently then I do, and to work with these individuals, to reach them, to teach them, and I am very good at understanding them, and their motivations, and impulses, and stressors, even though theirs are not the same as mine.

I've given your theory a lot of thought, and no amount of convincing is going to make it make sense to me, I simply do not see it being likely.

But I applaud your fortitude on sticking to your guns.

To me, this is really the only thing we disagree on. Everything else we seem to agree with.

Sorry if I offended you.

 

[Sillybilly]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you; you're sane! There are people out there that don't think your life is worth the money in your pocket. There are people out there that don't think your life is worth even that.

Skid Row is literally filled with these people.

He didn't really kill her, because he mugged her. He killed her, because she annoyed him. He just wanted her to leave, and she didn't, so he marched her up to the tank, and closed her inside.

To this person, EL was an annoyance that needed to go away. That's all she was to him.

I don't get the part where you are suggesting she annoyed him and he wanted her leave and she didn't. I'm sure she would have gladly left.

 

[FutzBucket]

Sorry, if this was a sexual crime, she never would have made it to the elevator that second time. The reason why she made it into the elevator the second time was because the man let her go.

But she couldn't work the elevator.

So, the man sealed her in the tank.

 

[FutzBucket]

I don't get the part where you are suggesting she annoyed him and he wanted her leave and she didn't. I'm sure she would have gladly left.

She tried, but she kept hitting the "HOLD DOOR" button.

 

[ThinkHard]

To me, this is really the only thing we disagree on. Everything else we seem to agree with.

Sorry if I offended you.

Apology accepted

 

[ThinkHard]

Sorry, if this was a sexual crime, she never would have made it to the elevator that second time. The reason why she made it into the elevator the second time was because the man let her go.

But she couldn't work the elevator.

So, the man sealed her in the tank.

Well that's only assuming your entire lead up is true....

But I don't think that's exactly how it went down.

 

[OCSlacker]

Of course it doesn't make sense to you; you're sane! There are people out there that don't think your life is worth the money in your pocket. There are people out there that don't think your life is worth even that.

Skid Row is literally filled with these people.

He didn't really kill her, because he mugged her. He killed her, because she annoyed him. He just wanted her to leave, and she didn't, so he marched her up to the tank, and closed her inside.

To this person, EL was an annoyance that needed to go away. That's all she was to him.

Yes, there are people who are just plain crazy and some are just evil. I grew up in Philadelphia and NY. The places I grew up a block can separate a bad neighborhood from a good one. If I walked a few blocks from my home I would be in a neighborhood were drugs were dealt. A game the dealers use to play was pull the #. They put #'s in a hat and then counted the druggies that walked by looking for a score. The addict that walked by that was the # they pulled was dragged into the alley and killed. No joke, this is what really happens in the city. This is what crazy people do.. No one cared because it was just another junkie in their eyes, so the body would be left. So yes I can see your point but I can't wrap my brain around this being a mugging and going to the extent of walking her to a water tank on the roof. This was rape in my opinion,doubt she had money on her at all, she wasn't high, maybe she was overly friendly but I just see this being more of an assault issue then a robbery. There are just evil people in the world, who for whatever reason take advantage of situations and figure out ways to get away with them . but even crazy people won't march a woman to the roof & force her in a water tank after robbing her. Why go to all that trouble to get rid of her body. I have a feeling we will never know what actually happened. Sometimes no explanation is there..