CA - Elliot Rodger kills 6, injures 13 in Isla Vista, Near UC Santa Barbara, #3

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by Coldpizza, May 24, 2014.

  1. BigCat

    BigCat New Member

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    I thought one of the main characteristics of a sociopath is that he's "superficially charming." It's hard to imagine anyone less charming than ER. He lacked all social grace, so it appears.
     


  2. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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    Oh my do not misunderstand me ! The first 5-7 years ,psychiatrist spent some time with the folks. And every single human they encountered waked with an RX. The time with them shortened and less and less left WITOUT an Rx. In the end it was first time seeing client 6 minutes , follow-up 2 minute “session”. One colleague here is what his shade was like, no BE – disgusting: I am not using colon!

    900 900 905 910 9015 915 920 925 925 930 935 940 945 945 he would just slam billings in .this went on hours . The whole office building knew when the doc was “in”. This was private setting .People were riding up and down the elevators, men in the woman’s room and vice versa, looked like an opening ob. a blockbuster films.

    He messed all of us up because he had 800 charts! The front girls were losing their marbles . In one instance, after one of his visits many of my clients who had been on medication X, (not going to name the drug!) were all switched to medication R. Fine for the doc, my fellow therapists and I were the ones who had to deal with everyone decamping for the next month.

    Several months later his family was enjoying a 3 week vacation in Europe courtesy of drug manufacturer T. The pits. Drug reps would come into the office, set up (tablecloths and crap) and bring us all lunch. It always pissed me off (did I eat it yes I did@) thinking if they quit all this bus maybe the cost of the medications might be obtainable. Paperclips, pens,clipboards,klenox boxes, shiny expensive glossy brochures, mouse pads ugh

    IMO most psychiatrists these days are nothing other than legal drug pushers

    As it relates to Black Box, IMO, started out helpful, but like most things governmental(!) has turned into nothing other than lawsuit prevention. There are websites with search engines to look up all the black boxed stuff these days.

    Or to put it another way , a search for search for medications with black BOXED WARNINGS-- About 172,000 results!

    http://www.pharmacistpartners.com/w.../03/Communicating-Black-Box-final-merged1.pdf
     
  3. lawstudent

    lawstudent Member

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    My understanding is that what it means is the person doesn't feel normal human guilt or seem to possess a "conscience." So they don't feel bad completely lying and manipulating people close to them, and tend to get good at it. But I don't think being charming is a requirement. I think the ones we hear about are because those are the ones smart enough to hide it and commit crimes. If you think about a dumb person who does not feel guilt, it probably displays more like "antisocial personality disorder", which applies to a huge portion of prison inmates. They just do reckless things and never learn and blend in with 'normal' troublemakers for the most part, in and out of prison and more brutal than the rest.
     
  4. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    If we are looking at causes, we need to ask why these kinds of crimes occur rarely in other countries.

    They do not have mentally ill people?

    They do not prescribe drugs to mentally ill people?

    They do not have video games, music, films?

    They do not have divorce?

    They do not have people with a sense of entitlement?

    They do not have cars?

    What are the differences?
     
  5. momrids6

    momrids6 JUSTICE FOR JENNIFER

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  6. lawstudent

    lawstudent Member

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    My considerably thought out but completely unconfirmable guesses are:

    Some of these countries allow much less access to guns, but I don't think video games, violent movies, or divorce are any different there.

    Some of these countries make it easier to institutionalize people, but I can't think of any countries that regularly institutionalize these types who don't display major red flags.

    I think there is a lot less pressure for success in many other countries (some in Asia being an obvious exception, but that's as to academic-type achievement - I feel like the U.S. is very unique in its emphasis on having it all).

    Most other countries have a lot more social structure so there's a lot less agonizing about what to do for an education/job.

    It's a lot easier to get away with crimes in most countries, with much less chance of heavy sentence or the consequences that happen in the U.S., so a lot of them probably take out their frustration in smaller ways instead of feeling like they have one shot to take a chance and lash out at society.

    I also feel like the U.S. is very black or white in how the media/society focuses on things, yet preaches an ideology of freedom, which causes rage at society for being "hypocrites." Most countries have really obvious strict moral standards that seem ridiculous to us, but are predictable. I feel like Americans always think there's some perfect way something could have been addressed, right or wrong, and the appropriate social rule constantly changes or doesn't even exist. The media always talks about personal responsibility while blaming everyone for any event that happens. This is a perfect example - you have all these outraged voices blaming everyone for this but in the next breath they'd bash anyone who does or does not want gun control, does or does not want to lock up any slightly 'off' person, does or does not blame the parents, or refers to autism. They never acknowledge that issues are complicated - everyone is the bad guy. I feel like in most countries, the bad guy is more clear, even if it's pretty terrible and ridiculous (like countries that always blame the woman for any crime). I feel like the way we do it breeds insanity because there's just no way to feel on the right path if you are the kind of person who dwells on these things.
     
  7. Nymeria

    Nymeria Active Member

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    Agreed, not many people (who did not want to "do" her) found Jodi Arias "charming", and to me she is a sociopath.
    IIRC, never diagnosed as one, but I think all of her evaluations were post murder and I think she was smart enough to skew test results somewhat.
     
  8. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Well, for one we have easy access to guns. People with all kinds of mental issues can legally buy guns in the US with no trouble whatsoever.
     
  9. Dmacky

    Dmacky Well-Known Member

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    Exactly jjenny,

    Another example is Julie Schenecker.

    Julie has a long history of extreme mental illness, 20 years at least. But she was able to buy a gun and murder her two innocent teenagers. Sometimes I think the HIPAA law does more harm than good.
     
  10. lawstudent

    lawstudent Member

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    The choice is honestly either almost everyone gets guns or almost no one does. Most countries have a lot less access, but that goes for everyone. The only way to screen out unstable people is to do basically the same type of check something like the FBI does before letting people come work for them. Talk to everyone in their lives about their behavioral history. I think there are some countries that might do this, but they also don't have a second amendment.

    ETA: And, there are countries where little kids can have guns, and they don't have this particular issue. However, they are usually involved in some horrific civil war, so they are definitely not an example of nonviolence.
     
  11. Dmacky

    Dmacky Well-Known Member

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    BBM

    Great point lawstudent! Sad but true.
     
  12. human

    human Well-Known Member

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  13. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    The pressure for success is huge in some European nations as students take a test which determines if they go to college or vocational school. I know of a family in England who promised the child an around the world trip if she passed the exam for college.

    Australia has huge issues of racism and the influx of people coming by boats for asylum.

    We know how the pressure is on in Japan and huge population crowded together.

    The laws in France are very liberal for criminals.
     
  14. lawstudent

    lawstudent Member

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    Yes, but many kids are tracked out of the professional school track and put on a vocational one at a very young age - the choice is somewhat made for you. Here I feel like it is somewhat aimless because everyone is always talking about how everyone needs to go to college and encouraging crazy student loans and moving away to a dorm. In Europe, the finances are taken care of in many cases, and it's rather clear who the state will send to college. Status is also a huge thing there - people are raised with certain expectations - the U.S. emphasizes social mobility and that everyone should be able to do better than their parents.

    I work as a tutor for high stakes boarding school entrance exams, and the European families have the hardest time with their child not getting in. They are usually wealthy people with great jobs and lots of education - in their country, that would be enough. They expect their child to have the same career they did.
     
  15. Quester

    Quester New Member

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  16. Quester

    Quester New Member

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    :rant:

    This punk kid (and his ilk) has really gotten under my skin! :furious:

    Throughout his whole life as a minor, it appears he was rescued from situations and/or manipulated others which resulted in him being rescued. Ditto for him ensuring he got his way one way or another.

    Once in college and dealing with his sexual frustrations he must have realized that his rescuers could no longer rescue him. And, of course ER was incapable of helping himself. So what did he choose/plan/do, he fricken took it out on all of us! The spineless, egotistical, arrogant, spoiled rotten little puke took his I-can't-get-my-way-so-I'll-get-you out on all of us!

    This isn't about guns, knifes, cars, hot girls, brutes, mental illness, etc.

    It's about this little punk not getting his way!

    And, he didn't create himself alone!

    All my honest opinion and end rant.
     
  17. Dmacky

    Dmacky Well-Known Member

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    OMG ~ Can you believe this??? I think that the violent video games we have in this generation and parents not monitoring what their children access on the Internet are a BIG problem. ER also played creepy games on the net. IMO

    Two 12-year-old southeastern Wisconsin girls stabbed their 12-year-old classmate 19 times! in the woods to please a "mythological creature" they learned about online on a website that posts horror stories!!!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/wisconsin-girl-stabbed/?hpt=hp_t1
     
  18. human

    human Well-Known Member

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    I don't think violent video games are helping the mind. Fill the mind with junk and you have a junk mind.

    But these games are available all over the world.

    The US seems to be a hot bed of violence. That is, for a country that is not in a war on its own land
     
  19. jggordo

    jggordo Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone established whether this fool had been "roommate matched" with the roomates he killed or they all signed a lease together? The profile of them did not fit the profile of those he claimed to be so against, IMO. Not "hunks" that got all the beautiful girls, or at least didn't seem to be.

    IIRC, the complex was "put on notice" that there were problems and did not act on it. Between that notice to them but subsequent visits by the Sheriffs Dept. between the "theft" and welfare check within the same time frames, I cannot help to feel that had the complex acted more diligently the lives of the roomates may have been spared. Hindsight is 20/20 I get that.

    JMO's
     
  20. CARIIS

    CARIIS Spelling Bee Winner - Kindergarden!

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