CA CA - Farren Stanberry, 18, San Francisco, 24 Apr 1980

[Odyssey]

Unfortunately not; I actually mentioned it twice (that he had previously had contact with another member of the group regarding the UID) hoping he would reveal something, but he never responded to that (Maybe he is still angry that you gave his computer a virus all those years ago hahaha sorry I couldn't resist!)
I don't want to send him another email again now so soon as I get the impression he is busy at the moment and I thanked him profusely and we sort of agreed that I would get in touch again if we found anything relevant.

I only say to submit it again as it sounded like the SF Medical Examiner was so busy at the time that I worried they had only taken a cursory glance at it. But in retrospect, like you say, if it was submitted by LE they would have probably taken it seriously and I agree, it would probably be easy to spot 2 broken wrists and do a rule out.


I know it would be useful to know what work was and if it was in the day or at night.
If it was on the books yes, back at that time it could have been "cash in hand". If that unclaimed property isn't him then he literally could have been doing anything anywhere. But at least we know he was doing something.
Wouldn't LE have already checked out his social security number?(I would hope so!) I know DC had checked with them if it had been used since. I can only assume that it didn't tell them anything useful or they would already have the answers to these questions? I assume this is not something that a member of the public can just check out?

The thing about the hotel manager that I still don't get (Please tell me if I am being dumb). Ok so, everyone already knew Farren was staying at the National Hotel. So when asked he could have just said "yeah I remember him, he was staying here with a bunch of guys in room 218, he left all his stuff". If he didn't want to out Farren to his family, he didn't even need to mention anything about anyone being gay. So why did he say he was visiting a gay man? Either he was mistaken, or there was some truth in what he said.

Haha it wasn't him that my email sent that spam to, that was the first contact. I think his name was Tirico.

The public generally can't get info from Social security on someone who is living. If Farren was declared deceased it would be easier.

You do make a good point about the manager. I guess I always kind of figured that he was staying there with a partner and that the group of guys was just what he told his grandmother.

 

[Ciriii57]

<modsnip>

I guess I always kind of figured that he was staying there with a partner and that the group of guys was just what he told his grandmother.

Oh..I never even thought of that!! That would make sense, he was staying with his boyfriend but didn;t want to say as much. Except...they said that the men he was sharing with said he went to work, so maybe not. Unless it was just that one man?

 

[Odyssey]

Oh..I never even thought of that!! That would make sense, he was staying with his boyfriend but didn;t want to say as much. Except...they said that the men he was sharing with said he went to work, so maybe not. Unless it was just that one man?

Yes, that was what I realized after reading your post. Until you just mentioned the new info about him going to work, the only account of the group of men was him telling his grandmother that. So I always just assumed the visiting a gay man was a way to not out him. But now that we have another account of the group of men, it makes less sense. Especially since this account of him going to work likely came from that same manager.

 

[Ciriii57]

Yes, that was what I realized after reading your post. Until you just mentioned the new info about him going to work, the only account of the group of men was him telling his grandmother that. So I always just assumed the visiting a gay man was a way to not out him. But now that we have another account of the group of men, it makes less sense. Especially since this account of him going to work likely came from that same manager.

So I think he was indeed sharing his room with some other guys.
I wonder how he met them? I wonder how a young man travelling alone meets people in a new city. I know I'd be far too nervous to just approach strangers and start talking!

I read that the average room size of a SF SRU was about 8x10 feet with 1shared bathroom and toilet on each floor. Usually with 2 single beds. How many people could you squeeze in there! I can't imagine there were more than 4 of them, 2 sharing a single bed. Maybe sleeping on the floor?
I wonder if they ever actually went looking for Farren after he failed to return? I wonder if his work ever tried to call anyone when he didn't show?

 

[Odyssey]

So I think he was indeed sharing his room with some other guys.
I wonder how he met them? I wonder how a young man travelling alone meets people in a new city. I know I'd be far too nervous to just approach strangers and start talking!

I'm wondering if he hadn't met them beforehand and the hotel just put people into whichever room had an open bed. I'm not sure how SRO's work, but since the hotel was right by the hotel, I figured he went straight there when he got off the bus. He would have needed a place to stay that night, I doubt he would have had time to meet people first.

 

[Satch]

No, he was living in The National Hotel, this is the low rent flop house that the detective is referring to.

I am inclined to believe what his roomates said for the simple reason I don't see why they would lie. This was their friend and it's not like he had anything worth stealing. It is also very unlikely for all the members of a group to keep a secret for so long.
As for the Hotel Manager; either he was mistaken (quite likely after 10 years) or for some reason he was being deceptive.
I don't think Farren was murdered in the hotel; there would have been too many people around to keep it a secret.

Great stuff, @Ciriii57!

Maybe the hotel manager knew Farren and really liked him. And he did not want to tell family that Farren was gay out of respect for Farren. So when asked why Farren was there, the manager said, "He's visiting a gay man." Uncle, "How can I find out about this gay man?" Manager, "He died of AIDS."

However, Farren wasn't visiting a gay man most likely Farren had taken up residence there with several other gay men.

Thoughts?

Satch

 

[Satch]

Guys,

Since we now know that Farren had another job when he went missing and his roommates say, "He left for work one morning, and never came back," this puts foul play back into the mix. I think more than suicide. Especially if Farren really was happy in San Francisco, and enjoying the friends and relationships he had there. He could have gone to work at a bad place, contacting vulnerable people. Male prostitution, street hustling, sexual favors for things.

If Farren was asked to do something in an environment with the above connections, I don't think it was "Hey Farren, get me a sandwich from the deli" kind of thing.

Or something bad happened to Farren on the way to work.

I hate to sound morbid, but I don't know how to put the following in a delicate way so here goes:

If a gay person was murdered in San Francisco, was thee any statistical data on what they would do with the bodies? Would they just take the UID's to the city morgue? I often thought that the dead would be dropped into water or abandoned landfills. If Farren was murdered, would his body turn up if not buried someplace? Or with San Francisco so huge, did politics, and lack of compassion for the gay community force people not to care to even investigate?

Another question- When was The Castro developed? The Castro was a suburban area of San Francisco devoted exclusively to the gay/lesbian/bi/ community. How big was it? I wonder how close it was to the National Hotel?

Satch

 

[Ciriii57]

I'm wondering if he hadn't met them beforehand and the hotel just put people into whichever room had an open bed. I'm not sure how SRO's work, but since the hotel was right by the hotel, I figured he went straight there when he got off the bus. He would have needed a place to stay that night, I doubt he would have had time to meet people first.

Of course, that's logical. First place he saw to stay after the bus journey. I think you might be right, something like a modern day hostel that gap year students would stay in. He may have just accepted the bed. God how brave, I wouldn't have dared sleep let alone leave my stuff in the room! I suppose he must have done similar when travelling in the East so probably he wasnt phased at all. If they weren't his friends then that probably explains why they didn't report him missing or worry.

The only other possibility I suppose would be that he did know these guys and had prearranged to meet them there. But I think that would have been hard to arrange in 1989 without cell phones etc

 

[Ciriii57]

If a gay person was murdered in San Francisco, was thee any statistical data on what they would do with the bodies? Would they just take the UID's to the city morgue? I often thought that the dead would be dropped into water or abandoned landfills. If Farren was murdered, would his body turn up if not buried someplace? Or with San Francisco so huge, did politics, and lack of compassion for the gay community force people not to care to even investigate?

Hey @Satch! Sorry, do you mean what the murderers did with the bodies or the authorities? If the murderers, well it could be anything depending on the murderer.
I honestly don't think prejudice would have affected any investigation. LE and the medical examiner wouldn't know if a person was gay unless they identified them, so if they did find Farren but couldn't ID him they'd have no idea of his sexuality.
If Farren had been found and foul play was suspected he'd be a UID and hopefully listed in NamUs. Even if foul play wasnt suspected or it was an accident I think. I think the body will be buried by the authorities after detailed medical records have been taken.
Bodies dropped in water do usually come to the surface or wash ashore, unless weighted down or they get washed out to sea. Bodies have been found in landfills before, especially homeless people who sleep in dumpsters. Buried bodies...well maybe never!
I think it's important to remember what San Francisco was like at this time. There was a massive homeless and immigrant problem added to this a big problem with general vice (drugs, prostitution etc). Sgt Rand thinks they just couldn't identify him...so that means it's up to us!

This has raised a question, can anyone tell me: will every UID be entered into NamUs, or could there still be UIDs from the 80s that were just ...forgotten?

Regarding the Castro district. It was well established by 1980 and was just a street car ride away down Market Street. There was also a well established gay community in the Tenderloin, right by the National Hotel!

My feelings are now veering to either Farren being murdered by someone he worked with that day, maybe they offerred him a ride and got heavy with him. Or a random murder, maybe a robbery or psycho he ran into on his way home. Murders are most commonly committed by someone known to the victim.

 

[Mfleish]

This has raised a question, can anyone tell me: will every UID be entered into NamUs, or could there still be UIDs from the 80s that were just ...forgotten?

I emailed the San Francisco ME to ask this question earlier, but I haven't heard anything yet. Have we completely ruled out the UID #3? The majority of ruleouts on Farren's Namus are from VA, I don't see any from California that have been ruled out.
Here are a couple interesting newspaper clippings I found from The San Francisco Examiner. The bridge jumper as far as I could find was never located or identified. However, it is from August 1980, so well after the time Farren was reported missing. I am leaning towards murder more now as well.
The other clipping is a job posting for Farrell's Ice Cream which was owned by Marriott at the time.

 

[Ciriii57]

I emailed the San Francisco ME to ask this question earlier, but I haven't heard anything yet. Have we completely ruled out the UID #3? The majority of ruleouts on Farren's Namus are from VA, I don't see any from California that have been ruled out.
Here are a couple interesting newspaper clippings I found from The San Francisco Examiner. The bridge jumper as far as I could find was never located or identified. However, it is from August 1980, so well after the time Farren was reported missing. I am leaning towards murder more now as well.
The other clipping is a job posting for Farrell's Ice Cream which was owned by Marriott at the time.

Wow that's amazing! That ice cream parlour job would be spot on! Can you find any other adverts from this time for companies owned by the Marriott Corporation? Say May 4th to early June. I know they had a variety of holdings, not just hotels.
Is access to these archives free or have you a paid membership? I'd love to know the site please?
Tom Damewood might be worth a further investigation too.

 

[Mfleish]

Is access to these archives free or have you a paid membership? I'd love to know the site please?

I have a newspapers.com subscription through Ancestry. It's paid, but you can do a 7 day free trial. I can check for more adverts.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

Could it be a possible match? I would say that there is a resemblance between Farren and John Doe.

18UMFL

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[Ciriii57]

I have a newspapers.com subscription through Ancestry. It's paid, but you can do a 7 day free trial. I can check for more adverts.

Oh yes, Please do that would be great! (As long as you have time and you don't mind) I can't wait to see what you find. In case it would help with a search some other Marriott companies were:
Hot Shoppes
Roy Rogers family restaurants
Big boy restaurants
In-Flite (meals on planes)
But I haven't yet looked into whether these were active in San Francisco.
And if course, if you come across any reports on uniddntified victims of crime!

Also interested to see what the ME says. Regarding the UIDs I think it would be well worth checking outside SF in case Farrens body was moved after murder.

 

[Ciriii57]

I

Could it be a possible match? I would say that there is a resemblance between Farren and John Doe.

18UMFL

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

<modsnip> Both the UID and Farren have DNA on file so they should have been automatically ruled out. I think Florida is a bit far, it seems Farren most likely died in SF.

 

[Odyssey]

I'm wondering if he hadn't met them beforehand and the hotel just put people into whichever room had an open bed. I'm not sure how SRO's work, but since the hotel was right by the hotel, I figured he went straight there when he got off the bus. He would have needed a place to stay that night, I doubt he would have had time to meet people first.

Oops I meant the hotel was right by the Greyhound

 

[Ciriii57]

F.Stanberry's unclaimed €98 is his. As per the below link, the California minimum wage in 1980 was €3.10 an

Sorry, in my earlier post it was supposed to be $ Dollars not € Euros. That's just habit, if I do it again please read Dollars!

 

[Mfleish]

In case it would help with a search some other Marriott companies were:
Hot Shoppes
Roy Rogers family restaurants
Big boy restaurants
In-Flite (meals on planes)

An In-Flite I found was located about 15 miles from the National Hotel. The trouble with the others is that most of the classified ads just say help wanted and list a phone number without a company name or address. I searched through one issue and there were no specific advertisements for any of the companies owned by Marriott. As the ads for some reason aren't all transcribed, I don't know how worth it it would be to browse through each page of every issue.

This might be weird, but I searched for the phone number of the National Hotel that was posted in an ad previously in this thread and found an ad from a resident there and I think I found him still living. The ad was posted in December 1980, so unsure if he would have been there in April-June. Maybe the detective can look him up and contact him if needed.

I didn't find any more unidentified bodies that seemed to match.

 

[Odyssey]

Just thinking out loud here...

So he was last heard from on April 26, we know he had lost his job at this time.

Sometime between April 26 and June 16 he disappears after leaving for work, so apparently he had found another job.

So was the Marriott the first job or the second?

If Marriott was the first one and he vanished before he could pick up his check, that probably places his disappearance earlier in that range, and where is the unclaimed property listing from the second job? Was it his first day of work and he never made it there so there was no property to report?

If Marriott was the second job, then (based on earlier posts, I haven't attempted the math myself) we figured the paycheck amount was about a week of work. A week where he never called home to say he had gotten another job. He could have worked there longer than a week but probably not less. So I think if Marriott was the second job, his family probably would have known about it if he was calling weekly and had worked there for at least a week.

Or again, maybe Marriott has nothing to do with Farren at all, but if he had two jobs and there's no unclaimed wages for him, that would be odd too.

My last thought (for now, anyway) is that if you were the grandmother and called the hotel and the manager told you he left for work and never returned, leaving his belongings behind, would your next question be "Oh, where does he work? Let me call there to see if he ever showed up." I'm not in any way criticizing his grandmother and maybe she did ask that, but it just never got relayed to anyone else. It just seems odd that we don't know this.

I'm rambling, I know.

 

[Satch]

Hey @Satch! Sorry, do you mean what the murderers did with the bodies or the authorities? If the murderers, well it could be anything depending on the murderer.

Great question!

I would be concerned about both instances. Especially in a large community like San Francisco. Other great research questions for study:

1.) What were the two recent jobs that Farren had? Both when he had lost his job, as well as his new job when he went missing? If he worked for the Marriott, than it's a 99% shot that we found our Farren's funds with that $95 dollars approximately. I don't think you are gonna have two F. Stanberrys working at the same Marriott! And what did he do for his job? (Was there an address or other kind of confirmation on those funds at all?)

2.) Since Farren left for work and never came back, was there anyone with whom he did not get along? Someone on his work route that gave him problems? Claimed owned him money? A jealous boy friend of his, or one of his roommates boyfriends?

3.) Farren the victim of a a sex or *advertiser censored* hate crime?

4.) An interview with his roommates on what Farren was like? But I think they may have been transit travelers themselves. Maybe they didn't want to report Farren missing because they, like Farren were also gay, and they didn't want LE to get involved with that they might perceive as questions or an investigation that's too personal.

5.) I now also lean toward something bad happening to Farren at work, or on the way to work Or on the way to a job as part of his work. It seems unlikely that he would leave that $42 and change at Wells Fargo Bank untouched. That money we know definitely was his.

Satch