CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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SATA said:
It is odd that the FBI have come out with missing persons´ alert so late. Something must have changed.
But, as you say, most likely scenario is that they are in the ocean. . . .
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Now I really think it is too strange of a coincidence that the only two missing are Hannah and Devonte - the ones who recently got out of the house and tried to get help. I really think it is almost more likely that they are deceased somewhere else.

I had thought there was some chance that they had escaped, or were dropped off somewhere else, but it really seems that they would have been found by now if that were the case. Or maybe they were left somewhere by themselves alive but couldn't survive in the middle of nowhere alone.

I also hope the authorities can keep searching elsewhere. I hope they did bring cadaver dogs to the Washington house.
 
bluesneakers said:
I read what you said. You asked:

I stand by my response to human. I made no "bizarre assumptions." I read your words.
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This is what you missed: I said AS LONG AS <these conditions are met>. Those conditions are *not* being met. We are *not* making all reasonable efforts to ensure family reunification is top priority.

Let's try this again since apparently I'm utterly failing to communicate tonight:

There are far, far more African-American children in foster care than African-American families waiting to adopt them. Should we refuse to allow white families to adopt them, even if it means never having legal parents ever again?

This is a terrible dilemma.
 
bluesneakers said:
And why is that?

And can you please share your source for this being the reason? TIA
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Parental substance abuse the main reason kids end up in foster care

Arizona Daily Star Dec 9, 2013

http://tucson.com/news/local/parent...cle_9add334f-8496-5ada-a4bf-35aabeda024f.html

While strung out on heroin, Anne Bissell&#65279; spent hours, sometimes days, passed out in the bathroom or bedroom.

What her young son did during those times, she has no idea.

&#8220;I&#8217;m assuming he would eat at his friend&#8217;s house or he would come in and get stuff out of the refrigerator, but I wasn&#8217;t there to prepare his meals,&#8221; Bissell says. &#8220;I wasn&#8217;t there to make sure he wasn&#8217;t getting hit by a car. I wasn&#8217;t there to make sure he&#8217;s brushing his teeth and helping him get dressed in the morning. I wasn&#8217;t there for any of that stuff.&#8221;

Drugs and alcohol are a huge factor in Arizona&#8217;s spike in kids being placed in foster care. Of the 10,141 children removed from their homes statewide in fiscal year 2012, at least 59 percent were removed because drugs or alcohol use were contributing factors to maltreatment, Department of Economic Security figures show.

&#8220;There&#8217;s more of a focus on keeping track of parents with babies that are born with substance abuse,&#8221; Ludwig says. &#8220;More immediate action is being taken.&#8221;

In October alone in Pima County, 22 babies under 3 months old were removed from their birth families, and 20 of those cases involved allegations of parental substance abuse, Pima County Juvenile Court records show.

At the University of Arizona Medical Center, chief of neonatalogy Dr. Alan Bedrick&#65279; says about two babies a week enter CPS custody after testing positive for illicit drugs. That&#8217;s about a 50 percent increase over six years ago, he says.



https://www.parents.com/advice/preg...t-happens-if-you-take-drugs-during-pregnancy/

A: Drugs, or controlled substances of any kind including alcohol and cigarrettes, are NOT recommended in pregnancy at any gestational age. Drug that are consumed at ANY month in pregnancy can cause severe and irreversible organ damage in the developing fetus, the most critical organ being the brain. Your friend is not only risking the health of her child for the rest of that child's life, but she is potentially putting her opportunity to raise that child herself in jeopardy.

If any woman tests positive on a drug screen at any time during the pregnancy, then Child Protective Services (CPS) can, and usually does, become involved. CPS may just require home visits after the birth to ensure that the child is being cared for and not placed in any undue danger from drug use and/or negligence in the home; however, in some cases, usually if the child begins to show signs of drug withdrawal after birth, CPS may require that the child go home with another more responsible family member or foster parent, and your friend will have to go through all the necessary legal channels to get her child back.

You should encourage your friend to get help with a drug treatment program immediately.
 
Pretty sick case all around. Looks like Jennifer and Sarah Hart are abusers.

I would not be surprised if they are injustice collectors.

Not often you hear about people who adopt children and are criminals. Carri and Larry Williams, Nicole Finn, Lori Drew, Jerry Sandusky, and Jim Jones adopted children.

The ones I am familiar with are:
Elizabeth Bathory
Gertrude Baniszewski
Laurie Dann
Karla Holmolka
Louise Woodward
Lori Drew
Melissa Huckaby
Elisa Baker
Mona Nelson
Carri and Larry Williams
Molly Jane Roe
Renee King
Jennifer Duran Martinez
Yoselyn Ortega
Gyulchehra Bobokulova
Karla Holmolka
Shamdai Arjun
Harley Branham
Nicole Finn

They are mostly nannies or babysitters. Some are stepmothers. One went on a school shooting, Laurie Dann in 1988. Some operate in a group like Elizabeth Bathory, Gertrude Baniszewski, Lori Drew, and Elisa Baker. All knew their victims with the exception of Elizabeth Bathory, who killed +650 people.

Not often you hear about woman killing a non-biological child or children, which are committed by nannies, stepmothers, family friend, or acquaintance. I have never seen any studies on them.

Looking at them, most are injustice collector/grudge holder/grievance collector like Baniszewski, Drew, Ortega, Bobokulova, and Branham. Injustice collector is most often associate with mass murderers (Stephen Paddock, Nikolas Cruz, Devin Kelley, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, and Eric Harris) and terrorists (Osama bin Laden, 9/11 Terrorists, Omar Mateen, Abubakar Shekau, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, and Abdelhamid Abaaoud) They are likely very repressed in nature.

This is the first time I heard of a woman killing all her adopted children.
 
SarahW said:
This is not okay. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rs-arrested-in-new-york-idUSTRE7BG0OC20111217

Kids are not props, and shouldn't be conscripted as employee in the service of their parent's political causes, especially when the kid is dragged into their parent's fight with all the attendant unpleasantness and sacrifice, as a showpiece. The unsavory character populating those camps are one thing - the chaos, dirt and angry noise another - but they are put in the middle of conflict for ideas they can't really grasp, where real violence could erupt. For some reason this use of their children is somehow satisfying and thrilling.

That kid in the pic? Ask me, he should be playing with friends swinging in a sunny backyard or bouncing around a safe playroom making Gumby's out of playdoh and having a carefree time. See that grin on the stooping adult? That's my idea of evil. Just MOO.
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No doubt in my mind that THESE kids were used as props.

That being said, children have attended protests since the civil rights era. Sometimes their families believe that whatever the rally or protest is about is something the kids have a huge stake in.

Like i said, I haven't seen kids exposed to chaos or dirt or whatever or "unsavory characters" or any violence at any of the events I've been to. At the airport protests when they stopped allowing Muslims in - tons of children were there. It was filled with little kids- Jewish, Christian, Muslim. It was beautiful. The kids seemed well aware why they were there and participated.

Some families believe that standing up for justice is a family affair.

If by dirt and unsavory characters you mean poor people or hippies I take offense to that. I saw no criminals or disgusting behavior by any protestor at any of the events I've gone to except the neo-Nazis and their supporters when we protested their event for two days in Laguna.
 
Y'all getting mean, not humble, y'all throwing shade on many adoptive families, y'all forgetting the Hart Children and pushing this-and-that agenda. Mods already warned that this is a troublesome thread.

We DON'T know what-all happened. WHERE are Devonte and Hannah?

We need sharp minds to crack this case, working together. We need to be on the lookout for Facts that can reveal what happened. The kids are the focus. How much allergy drugs were in their systems? Have videos been examined all along their route? SURELY they are on camera somewhere. Has the house been combed thru? Gaming computer examined? What about receipts? What was bought?

My fear is that LE, having no perp to arrest, will not go full-bore to find the truth of their lives which were so sadly cut short.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk
 
Silver~Bell said:
Y'all getting mean, not humble, y'all throwing shade on many adoptive families, y'all forgetting the Hart Children and pushing this-and-that agenda. Mods already warned that this is a troublesome thread.

We DON'T know what-all happened. WHERE are Devonte and Hannah?

We need sharp minds to crack this case, working together. We need to be on the lookout for Facts that can reveal what happened. The kids are the focus. How much allergy drugs were in their systems? Have videos been examined all along their route? SURELY they are on camera somewhere. Has the house been combed thru? Gaming computer examined? What about receipts? What was bought?

My fear is that LE, having no perp to arrest, will not go full-bore to find the truth of their lives which were so sadly cut short.

Sent from my QTAQZ3 using Tapatalk
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Thank you for this! It's easy to derail a thread, but these kids are still missing.
 
I think there have to be people local to the area who know:
- Have cadaver dogs searched the family home?
- Were they seen anywhere on their route that weekend other than the Safeway?
- Are drones being used every day to search above the turbulent water where the Yukon crashed?
- Is the public searching with binoculars/drones when law enforcement isn't, given that it was a tourist who found poor Ciera's body?
 
There have been posts on the animals.Concern for them. I will cover what I know then speculate. LE went to the home and found a chicken,small chicks and a duck . they took these animals away with them. Speculation All the people died so there was no provision made for th animals. I think the dogs were let go near the end of the trip and wandered away
 
La2dc said:
Now I really think it is too strange of a coincidence that the only two missing are Hannah and Devonte - the ones who recently got out of the house and tried to get help. I really think it is almost more likely that they are deceased somewhere else.

I had thought there was some chance that they had escaped, or were dropped off somewhere else, but it really seems that they would have been found by now if that were the case. Or maybe they were left somewhere by themselves alive but couldn't survive in the middle of nowhere alone.

I also hope the authorities can keep searching elsewhere. I hope they did bring cadaver dogs to the Washington house.
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Well, technically Sierra was also missing until a few days ago and now she's been recovered. It appears that she died along with the rest, even though her body was recovered later.

I would like to believe that the others are still out there, but I don't think they are.
 
flourish said:
That's one child at one event. Hardly representative of all children and all events in all states. I could provide my own examples but that's getting off topic, as it's not related to the Hart children. The Hart children were abused and things that might be appropriate for others weren't appropriate for them due to the intent and the context which included several types of abuse occurring.

Context and other factors are important to remember here.
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Bingo.

Lilibet said:
What bothers me, gitana, is that the children are still there when police get involved or someone acts up...and then their parents remove them. But the damage (trauma) may already be done. And things can escalate rapidly as has happened in Portland. Escape may be difficult.

[FONT=&amp]Portland Police in riot gear will move in to make arrests, an action that was delayed in November owing to the difficulty of separating window-smashers from an orderly crowd. So-called anarchists had embedded themselves in the post-election march as it moved peaceably through town, and they selectively destroyed cars and storefronts...

[/FONT]http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/01/a_protest_and_a_march_that_wil.html

http://www.koin.com/news/anti-trump-protests-portland-11102016/870130333

Taking children to generally peaceful festivals is one thing. But exposing them to potential trauma during a political demonstration that can turn ugly on a dime is not good parenting IMO. Anarchists in Portland are nothing new, so anyone going to any demonstration should know it can happen.
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I get where you're coming from.

But some people believe that being shot by police or deported is more truamtic than standing up for what you believe and attending a protest or rally and leaving if things get weird.

Again, I have not seen kids exposed to anything bad. The events ive gone to remained exceedingly peaceful except one at the end and that was at night after all the kids were gone.

I wouldn't fault these people for making a parenting decision that I may not make. I respect people's sincere and well intentioned decisions. Even if it exposes their kids to risk.

But i just don't feel these people did anything with the welfare of their kid and in mind. I'm certain they exploited them and exposed vulnerable, previously abused/neglected kids to highly charged situations.

Of all kids there lives should've been particularly free of any kind of stress or intensity. I'm sure they already had their full of that.
 
gitana1 said:
No doubt in my mind that THESE kids were used as props.

That being said, children have attended protests since the civil rights era. Sometimes their families believe that whatever the rally or protest is about is something the kids have a huge stake in.

Like i said, I haven't seen kids exposed to chaos or dirt or whatever or "unsavory characters" or any violence at any of the events I've been to. At the airport protests when they stopped allowing Muslims in - tons of children were there. It was filled with little kids- Jewish, Christian, Muslim. It was beautiful. The kids seemed well aware why they were there and participated.

Some families believe that standing up for justice is a family affair.

If by dirt and unsavory characters you mean poor people or hippies I take offense to that. I saw no criminals or disgusting behavior by any protestor at any of the events I've gone to except the neo-Nazis and their supporters when we protested their event for two days in Laguna.
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I gotta be honest-I didn't realize that demonizing hippies was still a "thing" until it started popping up here on this forum recently. I thought that went out in the 70s. Around where I live, it's kind of a compliment to be considered a hippy because it's used to indicate someone who's open minded, loves animals, shows up to help others in a disaster, takes care of the environment, and fights for rights. And occasionally wears sandals and tye dye. :)

The one thing that I think is really strange about the crime part of the story is the lack of witnesses to the little roadtrip. All we have (or all that's been released) is that surveillance picture. Were there no gas station bathroom stops? Snack runs? Apparently there weren't any motel stays or else it seems that we would've heard about them so I am speculating that they camped? And, if so, then I reckon it might have been a primitive spot or at least one that they didn't have to encounter others. (To pay, check in, etc.)

I'm tapped into fairly good network of people who were friends with the Harts-people who lived in their area. None of them seem to have any answers either. (I couldn't share any info if I had it, but they all really do seem to be perplexed.)

I am fascinated about that period of time of which we know little about.
 
gitana1 said:
Bingo.



I get where you're coming from.

But some people believe that being shot by police or deported is more truamtic than standing up for what you believe and attending a protest or rally and leaving if things get weird.

Again, I have not seen kids exposed to anything bad. The events ive gone to remained exceedingly peaceful except one at the end and that was at night after all the kids were gone.

I wouldn't fault these people for making a parenting decision that I may not make. I respect people's sincere and well intentioned decisions. Even if it exposes their kids to risk.

But i just don't feel these people did anything with the welfare of their kid and in mind. I'm certain they exploited them and exposed vulnerable, previously abused/neglected kids to highly charged situations.

Of all kids there lives should've been particularly free of any kind of stress or intensity. I'm sure they already had their full of that.
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I've never been to one where things got that bad, either. And we take our kids to a LOT. Our state is currently dealing with a governor who's making such weird decisions that it's brought all the parties together. Lots of rallies and protests and such. They even let our schools out so that the kids could attend.

Some people may think it's strange to take kids to social justice events but I don't. They're mostly pretty peaceful things-you only really hear about the bad ones because they make better stories. But, again, what the Harts did isn't any different from what MANY other parents do. It wasn't their lifestyle that made the situation bad-it was the withholding of food, possible physical abuse, etc.
 
mtnlites said:
I gotta be honest-I didn't realize that demonizing hippies was still a "thing" until it started popping up here on this forum recently. I thought that went out in the 70s. Around where I live, it's kind of a compliment to be considered a hippy because it's used to indicate someone who's open minded, loves animals, shows up to help others in a disaster, takes care of the environment, and fights for rights. And occasionally wears sandals and tye dye. :)

The one thing that I think is really strange about the crime part of the story is the lack of witnesses to the little roadtrip. All we have (or all that's been released) is that surveillance picture. Were there no gas station bathroom stops? Snack runs? Apparently there weren't any motel stays or else it seems that we would've heard about them so I am speculating that they camped? And, if so, then I reckon it might have been a primitive spot or at least one that they didn't have to encounter others. (To pay, check in, etc.)

I'm tapped into fairly good network of people who were friends with the Harts-people who lived in their area. None of them seem to have any answers either. (I couldn't share any info if I had it, but they all really do seem to be perplexed.)

I am fascinated about that period of time of which we know little about.
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Me too. Including thinking about how they had to have gotten gas in Oregon at some point which means they interacted with someone. As if someone working at a gas pump might have some clues or insight. I'm reaching, I know.

And I want to know what route they took the whole way, what were they doing in Newport and what is up with the stop at the small town in Washington? How long were they there?

Where did the list of campgrounds come from? When we've camped on road trips like that we've always had to sign in to include writing down our license plate number.
 
bluesneakers said:
Me too. Including thinking about how they had to have gotten gas in Oregon at some point which means they interacted with someone. As if someone working at a gas pump might have some clues or insight. I'm reaching, I know.

And I want to know what route they took the whole way, what were they doing in Newport and what is up with the stop at the small town in Washington? How long were they there?

Where did the list of campgrounds come from? When we've camped on road trips like that we've always had to sign in to include writing down our license plate number.
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We've mostly had to sign in as well, though there's usually always someplace where you can pull into to get a few hours of sleep without doing anything official about it. So did they do that?

This is really bugging me. I want to know.
 
They have to give the house another thorough search. Something has to be there to help us learn more.


MOO*
 
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