CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just had a thought - what if everyone was asleep and the driver nodded off. Could that cause the slowing for 70 feet that someone mentioned then loss of traction going over the edge cause the wheel spins and 90 mph recorded before impact? In my mind that would be the best outcome here - a tragic accident.It would also explain the turning round at Fort Bragg and heading back wouldn't it?:cow:
According to this article, http://kymkemp.com/2018/04/13/benad...no-crash-jen-hart-drunk-says-law-enforcement/ "Carpenter said The FBI was working closely with local law enforcement to help determine what had happened. “We believe that the Hart Incident was, in fact, intentional,” he said.He stated that when Hart was about 70 feet from the edge of the pullout, “[T]here was a braking action and then just acceleration.” He said, “The FBI is deploying their behavioral analysis unit to try to help us understand what happened.”" LE currently states the act was intentional, but is still being investigated.ETA: I don't think any final LE reports have been released, so IMO just about anything is still possible, and not enough is known yet to be able to do much more than speculate.
 
Why do you think they turned round at Fort Bragg?

Also, why call in sick for work if you are going to top yourself. That doesn't make sense.

I'm thinking the turn around at Fort Bragg and the sick call indicate Sarah was a victim. I suspect that getting everyone into a car gave Jen a lot of control of her captive audience. She could coach, cajole, spin and plan, all the while her family were isolated from outside contact and essentially confined in her vehicle. I propose that even if she knew her end plan for her family, she would take great pains to let them think otherwise and keep them compliant and unsuspecting.
I wonder if Hannah was dead or seriously injured/ill when CPS came to the door. I wonder if there were any sitings of her after her August escape attempt. I wonder if she was chained or shackled to keep her from running again.
If the weight estimate we saw for Hannah is accurate there has been substantial weight loss since the birthday video last year. That is a ominous and frightening to me. Am I right that the video was shot before her escape attempt?
I pray Devonte escaped before they left the house or somewhere on the journey. I am clinging to hope that he squirreled away supplies and is living in the woods somewhere afraid to come forward and completely unaware of what has happened. MOO
 
In the beginning it was said that the vehicle had been going 90mph (that's almost 150kph!) with no skid or brake or tire marks.. but then I thought it had been later said that after closer scrutiny, the vehicle was determined to have been stopped at some point, and then was only going something like 20mph when it went over the cliff... I think I'm now seeing again that it was 90mph.. so I'm confused as to which it was, or do they not know?

If the vehicle was going super slow off the cliff, like 20mph that I'm sure I had read somewhere.. it made me wonder if going over the cliff could have been a mistake. (Yes, I may be suffering from denial :( ) I have been at least a couple of times in my lifetime, at a stoplight/stopsign, when the car was not in 'park', and my foot was on the brake pedal.. but I became distracted, probably by conversation with another in the vehicle, and ever so slightly and slowly, my foot lightened off the pedal, which made my vehicle start to move ever so slowly forward.. I mean, if JH was going 150km straight off the cliff from a stopped position, that is one thing.. but if the vehicle was barely going forward, that *could* potentially be a different thing, no? Thoughts?

I just had a thought - what if everyone was asleep and the driver nodded off. Could that cause the slowing for 70 feet that someone mentioned then loss of traction going over the edge cause the wheel spins and 90 mph recorded before impact? In my mind that would be the best outcome here - a tragic accident.

It would also explain the turning round at Fort Bragg and heading back wouldn't it?

:cow:

It wasn't a slowing for 70 feet. It was a stop 70 feet from the edge and then an acceleration over the edge. The driver was reportedly (according to LE) alert, awake, and intoxicated.

Could you post the link for that so I can compare to the links I posted? TIA.

(I read one report where they did not know who was driving, a report that the two women were wearing seatbelts but the kids weren't and another that said none were wearing belts so its hard to know the exact circumstances)

Me either. I don't think I've seen anything about "slowing for 70 feet." I'm not even sure what it's supposed to mean.

When I suggested slowing for 70 feet I was responding to Deugirtni who initially suggested it so I don't have a link. You said the vehicle stopped at 70 feet then accelerared off so I asked you for a link for that. I wanted to compare to the links I posted (twice now) that mentioned 90mph. If you don't have a link for the stopping at 70 feet then accelerating off then I'll take it as opinion, as mine was. HTH.

Is it even possible to go from 0-90 mph in only 70 feet? I seriously doubt it.
 
When I suggested slowing for 70 feet I was responding to Deugirtni who initially suggested it so I don't have a link. You said the vehicle stopped at 70 feet then accelerared off so I asked you for a link for that. I wanted to compare to the links I posted (twice now) that mentioned 90mph. If you don't have a link for the stopping at 70 feet then accelerating off then I'll take it as opinion, as mine was. HTH.

Is it even possible to go from 0-90 mph in only 70 feet? I seriously doubt it.
Here‘s two reports about it but there are many other articles:
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/15/us/hart-family-abuse-drunk-drugged/index.html
https://youtu.be/9XUFGUtZnAo
 
When I suggested slowing for 70 feet I was responding to Deugirtni who initially suggested it so I don't have a link. You said the vehicle stopped at 70 feet then accelerared off so I asked you for a link for that. I wanted to compare to the links I posted (twice now) that mentioned 90mph. If you don't have a link for the stopping at 70 feet then accelerating off then I'll take it as opinion, as mine was. HTH.Is it even possible to go from 0-90 mph in only 70 feet? I seriously doubt it.
This article https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...y-believed-authorities-be-intentional-n861876 states "reports that the speedometer was at 90 mph at the time of the crash, but he said it could have moved during impact or accidentally been manipulated during the investigation."Certainly, that does not mean the vehicle was going that fast," Robertson said.". It seems doubtful that the Hart's vehicle was going 90mph when it went off the cliff, IMO.
 
When I suggested slowing for 70 feet I was responding to Deugirtni who initially suggested it so I don't have a link. You said the vehicle stopped at 70 feet then accelerared off so I asked you for a link for that. I wanted to compare to the links I posted (twice now) that mentioned 90mph. If you don't have a link for the stopping at 70 feet then accelerating off then I'll take it as opinion, as mine was. HTH.Is it even possible to go from 0-90 mph in only 70 feet? I seriously doubt it.
This article http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/deadly_hart_family_crash_may_h.html states "Data taken from the software of the GMC Yukon driven by the Hart family shows the vehicle came to a complete stop at Route 1 pullout near the town of Westport, the California Highway Patrol said. The SUV then sped off the edge of scenic rock face and plunged 100 feet below.That information combined with the fact that there were no skid marks at the scene has led investigators to believe the crash was no accident, authorities said.".
 
Interesting. In my state we have to have law enforcement accompany us if we want a warrant.

That may well be the case in my state, too. If I were a judge (and I'm a CPS-is-the-last-resort kind of girl), and I heard the stories that the neighbors told on Dr. Oz from November and March, and that CPS had already been by twice, seen cars coming and going, but got no answer at the door, I would have issued a warrant, with police if necessary. If I were CPS, I would have sought that warrant. The stories are disturbing - very - and worth at least a face-to-face meeting with the kids in view of the parents but out of hearing for at least a brief interview on the specific points in question, and this is one of the rare instances where I would even say it's totally reasonable to search the fridge & pantry (see if they're locked) and probably even bring a doctor on site to evaluate the children right then and there.

IMO, it actually benefits the parents accused of abuse to have a doctor evaluate on site (it was done with the Stanley children), or allow the children to be transported straight to your pediatrician-of-choice, because if you're innocent, the case can and should end right there. (Unfortunately, too often, as with the Stanley children, that *does not* end the case ... but it should.)

Hannah's behavior (she not only went to their house, but RAN UPSTAIRS straight to their bedroom where Dana was sleeping and hid in between the furniture) and Jen's behavior (she not only went to their house, but ENTERED without permission and started searching for Hannah), along with the rest, was very disturbing. If all these details were given to CPS and also to a judge, I think a warrant would have been called for. Unfortunately, instead, there seems to be some very inefficient system where CPS actually had to call 911!

One point I'm not clear on: on Oz, it sounded like the 3 visits were while the family was still at home. They happened culminating on that Friday, then? Not Fri and then two days after the family had skipped town?

Possibly. I have a rare type of a connective tissue disorder called Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome. (I have Vascular EDS with crossover HEDS.) It has caused my small stature (4'10" and 95 lbs) and has given me a lot of oral issues: TMJ, frequent periodontal disease, and tooth loss. I am 38 and actually getting a whole set of dentures this year,...
You can't diagnose anyone from a few pictures on the internet but Hannah's overall size and stature look very similar to my own. ...
Note: not implying that Hannah's size is ONLY a result from a condition and not malnutrition. She still could have been malnourished. Just agreeing that there could have been a contributing factor to her small size.

This is fascinating to me, totally OT, because I have HMS and possibly EDS (but not severe), and my grandmother had a full set of dentures by 38. She's deceased now so I can't ask, but I wonder ...

Anyway, back OT, Hannah was 4'1" and 45lb at age 16, which is significantly less than your size, which is well within the normal range for people (most of my maternal line was 5'0" or less, and 100lb until they all went low-fat and gained 50-100lb ...). But you may be right that some combo of genetic + deprivation is responsible for her looking 7 at 16.
 
TY mysterian and cybervampira for the links.
You're welcome, hope they help. Here's another article from 3/29/2018, updated 4/17/2018 http://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/washington/what-we-know-about-hart-family-crash/283-533219576. Interestingly, this article states "CHP officials said they believe all six children were inside the SUV, though they said there is a possibility the missing children are staying with friends in the Portland area.". I wonder why LE hasn't released any more information about this. If the missing kids are staying with friends, has this been confirmed or ruled out?
 
I have to agree. Even if only to say, yeah, knew her, and back then she liked to keep to herself... or whatever... nothing.. yet something.. seems weird to have just nothing. jmo.

Usually you at least get a bunch of family members, at least the parents, saying, "s/he was such a good kid; s/he would never do something like this," or "yeah, we were scared of how s/he acted..."


It didn't come through with the 'reply with quote' feature, but the quote from her about how overwhelmed she was the day they got the second set of 3 kids, and others talking about how these children were so filled with love in their new home, made me want to hurl. I'm sure she was overwhelmed, but never had the humility to seek the help those children needed and deserved.

Longshot speculation - they got on the road to get away and plan, maybe find friends in California or run to Mexico. Then reality hit and they made the decision to end it. Proceed no further and no going back.

Or they had it in mind the whole time but it took them that long to finalize the details, pick a spot, and work up the nerve to do it. Perhaps one needed that time to get the other on board?

That's exactly what I think, except I doubt how much Sarah really had to do with the plans. I've gotten a "victimized victimizer" / Stepford wife vibe from her since first learning about this case, from her pics, covering for Jen in the abuse conviction, Jen's public persona & pics, etc. She strikes me as the Dylan Klebold of the pair - dominated, taken advantage of and going along with it either (like Klebold) because the dominator's personality and personality disorder and/or mental illness particularly clicked with her own depression or whatever in a deadly combination or out of fear (more traditional victimized victimizer situation).
 
Ok I keep seeing that Hannah weighs 45lbs and is only 4 feet tall at age 16. Is there a LE or MSM link for that?

(My day for requesting links.)

Having said this, I have seen an article that said she lost her teeth being pushed over by a classmate and I have also seen it stated she lost them falling down stairs at home, so which was it and when did it happen? (Link?)
 
I am mystified. The only things I can think of are that some of the kids may be filled with bruises or may be emaciated. Something that cannot be explained away.

They were able to coach the kids before and CPS left them alone

Something I'm wondering that directly bears on this question: Did anyone see them in person after fall 2016? None of their festival friends, no one (to my knowledge). They heard from Jen briefly on FB in summer 2017 only for her to blame the world and wallow in self-pity, then there was the birthday video. Anything else in the past 18 months? They moved about the time of the rant, and their neighbors *never* saw them outside or even saw the children leave the house. Did Jen leave the house? Was Sarah working during this time? (IDK) But I'm not sure anyone (other than the 2 cries for help to the neighbors) saw them in the past 18 months.

We have no idea what condition those children could have been in, or to what extent the abuse/neglect may have escalated. What did Devonte and Hannah look like then, compared to the pictures from pre-fall-2016? IDK.

They might have had a *lot* to worry about if CPS came in that house.

I just had a thought - what if everyone was asleep and the driver nodded off. Could that cause the slowing for 70 feet that someone mentioned then loss of traction going over the edge cause the wheel spins and 90 mph recorded before impact?

You mean while driving? No one had seatbelts on. Unless the women were really, really neglecting and abusing those children (and they may have been, but in that case there's less reason to hope this was an accident), I can't see them not having seat belts on. I do think the women (I will not call them "mothers" anymore) cared for them in the earlier years, and certainly would have taught them to wear seat belts, and they'd be unlikely not to just because they weren't forced to, once that was habit for them ... at least it's very unlikely all of them would stop wearing them. I never tell my kids to buckle up any more, and haven't since they were about 3. They just do.
 
Article from the 5th:

Sheriff considers Hart family crash a crime


The mysterious California seaside crash in which at least five members of a family were killed is being labeled a crime by the man heading up the investigation.

Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman told HLN's "Crime & Justice with Ashleigh Banfield" on Wednesday that Jennifer Hart was driving her family's SUV when it went over a California cliff last week.

No one in the SUV was wearing a seatbelt, according to police.

"I'm to the point where I no longer am calling this an accident; I'm calling it a crime," Allman told HLN.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/04/us/hart-family-search/index.html
 

I've thought the wording of this text was strange from day one. If she was "buying time", why mentioned a doctor? Something that might alarm the recipient. Wouldn't she just say she had a bad case of the flu? Or say something more direct, such as "I have the flu and won't be in/reachable tomorrow-I'll call you in a couple of days", etc. if she wanted to ward off someone coming to look for her?

A couple of other things make me think that this was an "SOS" call: The odd timing ( 3 a.m.) and the fact that she didn't have alcohol in her system like JH, but Benedryl, like the children. It tells me she wasn't on board with driving off the cliff.

So, if she was trying to raise an alarm, why didn't she just say "if you don't hear from me, please check up on me" or some such thing? I think she was very afraid of JH, and was likely concerned that JH would overhear her/monitor her phone. So, she gives something ever-so-slightly serious ("hospital") but doesn't directly say "check on me/help, etc.". Something she could plausibly deny if JH confronted her about an SOS call. (I think JH was a raging maniac after the CPS visit.)

Does that make sense? Tired today, and even on a regular day it's hard to make sense!
 
<modsnip> Speaking about facts, it wasn&#8216;t one of the kids who drove the SUV down the cliff. Drunk. And it wasn&#8216;t one of the kids who pleaded guilty to a domestic assault charge.
 
You mean while driving? No one had seatbelts on. Unless the women were really, really neglecting and abusing those children (and they may have been, but in that case there's less reason to hope this was an accident), I can't see them not having seat belts on. I do think the women (I will not call them "mothers" anymore) cared for them in the earlier years, and certainly would have taught them to wear seat belts, and they'd be unlikely not to just because they weren't forced to, once that was habit for them ... at least it's very unlikely all of them would stop wearing them. I never tell my kids to buckle up any more, and haven't since they were about 3. They just do.

RSBM

So none of them has seatbelts on. They were pulling into a scenic viewpoint, braking 70 feet from the cliff then accelerating out over the edge.

No seat belts could mean getting ready to get out of the car. Suddenly accelerating could be a tragic mistake by someone alcohol impaired or a deliberate act. If it was deliberate why take off the seatbelts? Why would that matter in a deliberate event going over a 100 foot cliff? How many car lengths is 70 feet? Maybe only 6 or 7.
 
I've thought the wording of this text was strange from day one. If she was "buying time", why mentioned the hospital? A hospital, to me, means something serious. Something that might alarm the recipient. Wouldn't she just say she had a bad case of the flu? Or say something more direct, such as "I have the flu and won't be in/reachable tomorrow, in bed throwing up -I'll call you in a couple of days", etc. if she wanted to ward off someone coming to look for her?

A couple of other things make me think that this was an "SOS" call: The odd timing ( 3 a.m.) and the fact that she didn't have alcohol in her system like JH, but Benedryl, like the children. It tells me she wasn't on board with driving off the cliff.

So, if she was trying to raise an alarm, why didn't she just say "if you don't hear from me, please check up on me" or some such thing? I think she was very afraid of JH, and was likely concerned that JH would overhear her/monitor her phone. So, she gives something ever-so-slightly serious ("hospital") but doesn't directly say "check on me/help, etc.". Something she could plausibly deny if JH confronted her about an SOS call. (I think JH was a raging maniac after the CPS visit.)

Does that make sense? Tired today, and even on a regular day it's hard to make sense!

Perhaps Sarah didn't send the text?
 
<modsnip>

I'm not sure if you've seen earlier requests by the moderators, but we have been asked several times by the mods to leave race out of the discussions. The mods have also asked that anyone with questions about that to please message them directly. I'm not a mod, but have seen the threads about this crime closed and would like to keep the thread open.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
72
Guests online
1,813
Total visitors
1,885

Forum statistics

Threads
594,457
Messages
18,005,732
Members
229,400
Latest member
roseashley592
Back
Top