CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

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11223344

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I was speaking to nothing more than the familial estrangement. If they couldn't bond...why? These things have roots in families of origin.

Yes they do...but the patterns in all their relationships show this. Not allowing others in or to get close. Only relying on each other. The loss of the other or threat of it would be the end of the world. The ability to bond, empathize, etc...need others questionable due to the patterns. Perhaps needing to be needed. But an avoidant attachment style
 

Sunny123

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In Florida, in addition to the above, an adoptive family also has to attend classes for a few months where they role play and attempt to show what struggles you may face after placement. They really don't hold back any information about how difficult it can be. They even have previous families whom have adopted through the system come in and share there stories.
 

Talulah

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Yes they do...but the patterns in all their relationships show this. Not allowing others in or to get close. Only relying on each other. The loss of the other or threat of it would be the end of the world. The ability to bond, empathize, etc...need others questionable due to the patterns. Perhaps needing to be needed. But an avoidant attachment style

I agree. I see your points. I think we are on the same page. I offered up an example of why they could be estranged from their families, and then also suggested that perhaps abuse in their families of origin played a role in their overall issues. This is obviously just speculation. However, I don't think people get that twisted without a nasty background.
 

maggieo

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The hardest thing to understand about this story is the driving off the cliff, but the second hardest thing is imagining their daily lives. I have just two kids, and when they were little I stayed home with them and also limited their access to technology. But they had playdates, preschool, various classes and lessons, and played in the yard for HOURS. And still it was very hard! How in the world can 6 teenagers stay inside, not go to school, not hang out with friends, and not use computers or watch TV/movies?? We must be missing a piece of the puzzle. I can't imagine those lives as they've been described to us.
 

MizStery

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Body pulled from ocean near the Hart Family Crash Site

WESTPORT, Calif. — A couple vacationing on California's coast spotted a body in the Pacific Ocean near the Hart family crash site Saturday afternoon.




A bystander pulled the body from the stormy surf and onto the beach where it was recovered by Westport Fire crews.
The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office says the body appears to be that of an African American female, and that deputies are investigating the possibility that it may be one of the two missing Hart girls.



Official identification will most likely be done through DNA analysis, which could take several weeks.
The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office is monitoring ocean conditions to see when further searches might be safely conducted.

http://komonews.com/news/nation-wor...pulled-from-ocean-near-hart-family-crash-site

This tragedy just is so overwhelming I can't process it.
:cow:
 

NicoleH

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Since the beginning, I have felt both women were responsible for the crash, (that they decided it together) but then I read this article about how it was most likely not a joint decision.The article states that it's likely Jen who decided by herself to take everyone out. Of course this is just someone's opinion but I'm interested to hear other thoughts on this. Forgive me if this has been discussed. I did some back reading but not all the way to the beginning.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...rget2box_default_#incart_target2box_targeted_
 

Talulah

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The hardest thing to understand about this story is the driving off the cliff, but the second hardest thing is imagining their daily lives. I have just two kids, and when they were little I stayed home with them and also limited their access to technology. But they had playdates, preschool, various classes and lessons, and played in the yard for HOURS. And still it was very hard! How in the world can 6 teenagers stay inside, not go to school, not hang out with friends, and not use computers or watch TV/movies?? We must be missing a piece of the puzzle. I can't imagine those lives as they've been described to us.

The pictures don't really reflect what the DeKalb's have said either. It shows them outside quite a bit. I understand the need to create a narrative and how they might not align with facts (and obviously their narrative of the happy family was very false). However, I wonder if the DeKalb's work or are gone frequently. On the other hand, maybe they were all taken before the move.
 

bluesneakers

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The hardest thing to understand about this story is the driving off the cliff, but the second hardest thing is imagining their daily lives. I have just two kids, and when they were little I stayed home with them and also limited their access to technology. But they had playdates, preschool, various classes and lessons, and played in the yard for HOURS. And still it was very hard! How in the world can 6 teenagers stay inside, not go to school, not hang out with friends, and not use computers or watch TV/movies?? We must be missing a piece of the puzzle. I can't imagine those lives as they've been described to us.

It hurts to think about what their daily not-photographed lives must have been like. All those kids, cooped up, nothing to do, afraid to anger either parent? What did they do? Imagine being nineteen and not allowed to have a car, a job, or friends. Awful. :(

They had each other, and their pets. I hope they had a lot of good books.
 

krasch0705

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Teaching salary depends very much on State. Since this family was very mobile and willing to move for various reason, they could have gone to a State where teaching salaries pay more than store employee salaries. For example, salaries in Colorado are reasonable, and the real benefit is that the teaching holidays align with the children's holidays. As a family decision, if she could get a teaching job, it would have benefited the family more than getting a store manager job.

She was an Operations Manager. Not a clerk. She probably got paid well and most likely had a work phone (I say this because another post stated that Kohl's does not give employees phones).
 

otto

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]Body pulled from ocean near the Hart Family Crash Site

WESTPORT, Calif. — A couple vacationing on California's coast spotted a body in the Pacific Ocean near the Hart family crash site Saturday afternoon. A bystander pulled the body from the stormy surf and onto the beach where it was recovered by Westport Fire crews.

The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office says the body appears to be that of an African American female, and that deputies are investigating the possibility that it may be one of the two missing Hart girls. Official identification will most likely be done through DNA analysis, which could take several weeks.

The Mendocino County Sheriff's Office is monitoring ocean conditions to see when further searches might be safely conducted.

http://komonews.com/news/nation-wor...pulled-from-ocean-near-hart-family-crash-site

That would be four of the six children pulled from the ocean.

The two women were seat belted into the vehicle. The children were not. I cannot help but think the women actually expected to fly though the air into the water right side up if they hit 90 before the end of the cliff ... perhaps thinking they could claim the dead children were a result of a seat belt mishap.
 

Talulah

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That would be four of the six children pulled from the ocean.

The two women were seat belted into the vehicle. The children were not. I cannot help but think the women actually expected to fly though the air into the water right side up if they hit 90 before the end of the cliff ... perhaps thinking they could claim the dead children were a result of a seat belt mishap.

The latest information states that the women weren't belted in. Apparently that was an early misstatement. Also, the 90 on the speedometer was very likely due to wheels continuing to spin after the vehicle left the cliff, or other causes. The vehicle couldn't reach 90mph before it went off from only 70 feet away.
 

otto

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Since the beginning, I have felt both women were responsible for the crash, (that they decided it together) but then I read this article about how it was most likely not a joint decision.The article states that it's likely Jen who decided by herself to take everyone out. Of course this is just someone's opinion but I'm interested to hear other thoughts on this. Forgive me if this has been discussed. I did some back reading but not all the way to the beginning.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...rget2box_default_#incart_target2box_targeted_

I don't believe that one of the two women did not know that a CPS knock on the door was bad news for both of them. It seems more like the police arrived, the parent who was at home hid, when the second parent came home, they jumped in the vehicle and fled. A short time later they murdered all the children and committed suicide.

Both women were in this from the beginning and collectively, excluding the children, decided to murder the children and to commit suicide by driving off a cliff.

If only the driver Jen had control, and Sarah didn't even mange to undo her seatbelt before the stopped vehicle accelerated off a cliff, that would be family annihilator.
 

Whiteorchids

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Since the beginning, I have felt both women were responsible for the crash, (that they decided it together) but then I read this article about how it was most likely not a joint decision.The article states that it's likely Jen who decided by herself to take everyone out. Of course this is just someone's opinion but I'm interested to hear other thoughts on this. Forgive me if this has been discussed. I did some back reading but not all the way to the beginning.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...rget2box_default_#incart_target2box_targeted_

I think this is what happened IMHO
 

Quill

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I agree. I see your points. I think we are on the same page. I offered up an example of why they could be estranged from their families, and then also suggested that perhaps abuse in their families of origin played a role in their overall issues. This is obviously just speculation. However, I don't think people get that twisted without a nasty background.

Sorry to disagree, but I have a sibling who is twisted (narcissist). The other 3 of us are fine. I think she was born this way.
 

Lilibet

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If so, then that would mean they probably took the 101 South from Oregon, and then took the cutoff to the 1, right there in Laytonville. It goes straight to Westport.

I wonder why they would choose the route from Laytonville. It’s a much shorter drive from Leggett, about 28 miles. Going to Laytonville adds about 22 miles to the trip for a total of about 49 miles. Perhaps they didn’t decide to go to the Mendocino Coast until they had passed Leggett.
 

Talulah

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I don't believe that one of the two women did not know that a CPS knock on the door was bad news for both of them. It seems more like the police arrived, the parent who was at home hid, when the second parent came home, they jumped in the vehicle and fled. A short time later they murdered all the children and committed suicide.

Both women were in this from the beginning and collectively, excluding the children, decided to murder the children and to commit suicide by driving off a cliff.

If only the driver Jen had control, and Sarah didn't even mange to undo her seatbelt before the stopped vehicle accelerated off a cliff, that would be family annihilator.

You have no facts to support any of that. Additionally, reports indicate only CPS visited the house, not the police.
 

Talulah

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Sorry to disagree, but I have a sibling who is twisted (narcissist). The other 3 of us are fine. I think she was born this way.

Good point. I've read about cases like that. Thanks for the comment.
 

emma.laurens

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<modsnip> I can't see how a small girl who is possibly malnourished could have landed safely after a second-floor jump from either the front or the back of the Hart house. She must have been terrified out of her mind. But I maintain that there is no evidence from that that the abuse she was facing was sexual, and to keep asserting it has nothing to do with figuring out the motives.
 

katydid23

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The only seats that recline in this vehicle are the front two. Our kids are 17, 14, 12, 6 and 3... I can’t imagine sleeping in it unless they just all magically fell asleep at the same time while on the road. We travel locally in the Tahoe with one seat in the second row down (7 seats) if we are on vacation we take two vehicles or if it’s a short trip put a cargo shell on top. It is very crowded if we have an extra kid with us and have all 8 seats in use.

Our 6’2” son can fit in the 2nd row where the waters are and ~5’ teen/preteen daughters in the rear row next to the booster seat.
5f842136b81f70708585e840d3effd58.jpg




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Right, but there are a lot of differences between your family and theirs. The Hart kids were very small for their ages.

And your kids are not afraid of you, in the sense that you might lean back and slap them a few times across the face if they don't shut up and go to sleep.

I think things were probably very intense and scary and the kids would do what they were told because they knew things were dire.

I am not saying they could sleep comfortably, just putting it out as a possible scenario. It seems to me that if they had rented a room somewhere, we would know by now. And they didn't seem to have any tents or camping supplies, so where else could they be?

Unless maybe that had friends who let them crash with them, and they are not talking?
 

ZoriahNZ

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Wow, in looking at those 83 photos from the Oregonian, I definitely see some where the kids are looking dangerously thin, IMO. They seem to be particularly in the more recent photos. #21 You can see J's skeletal structure of his skull at his temple. In #22, the boy's arms are so thin you can see their veins and muscle delineation. #24 they all look boney and emaciated to me. JMO
 
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