CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #3

[otto]

Has there been anything released to connect the two women's sexuality to the abuse? If not, I find it unnecessary to put lesbian in that sentence.

Apologies. I'm old school and still learning the new language. Given that a young girl jumped out of the second story window of a house organized by two sexually involved women, one has to wonder why she was so afraid that she risked such injury to get away from them? The same question would be asked with a heterosexual couple. The difference here is that if that happened, it was a young girl in their care and who was returned to their care because they were two women and not a heterosexual couple. In a heterosexual couple, the husband might be questioned.

This didn't happen because of threat of "no supper".
It didn't happen because of threat that she could no longer attend school.

What triggered this girl to run for her life?

 

[Talulah]

I'd like to make a comment on the women's estrangement from their families. I have been estranged from my family for 16 years. They just barely, and I do mean barely, acknowledge I exist. My mother will comment on the same thread I do on Facebook (I have some limited contact with one of my brothers) and consistently pretends I'm not there. I haven't had a conversation with her in about 14 years. I haven't spoken to my father at all in 16 years. My wife also has a very tenuous relationship with her parents. I was just invited in their house for the first time in February, after 16 years of being with their daughter. The estrangement in both our cases is entirely due to our family's religious beliefs. If something catastrophic were to happen in my life and it made the news, I'm sure both of our families would either refuse to comment or attempt to make themselves look better than they actually are. My point is that we don't know the real reason they were estranged from their families. It could be for any number of reasons. I also note with interest that the article recently posted about family annihilators points to childhood abuse as a precipitating factor of spousal and child abuse. Now, it is possible they both came from loving homes and their families disapproved of their treatment of the children and the women cut them off?...yes. I am just suggesting I suspect it's more nuanced than that.

 

[otto]

IMO, it'd have a lot to do with their version of their political views. These types are often "By any means needed".

These children should have been driving cars, getting jobs, participating in sports, developing independent, informed political views and living their lives.

The opposite occurred where these children were used as props at events supported by the two women. They did not educate the children, they deprived them of their lives from the day they had them under their control.

JMO

 

[SATA]

The neighbors would have been breaking the law if they’d tried to stop the women from taking their child home.

So basically children have no rights. That is just scary.
What the neighbors described could have come straight out of a horror movie.
Little girl escaping in the middle of the night, jumping from a second store window.
Running to neighbors, but neighbors had locked gate, so she ran to another neighbor - people she didn´t know - in the middle of the night.
Her mothers and siblings searching for her with flashlights in the dark. Did she see them?
Neighbor lets her in, but when her mothers reach the house, she runs upstairs in a house she doesn´t know and hides behind furniture.
Mother explains she is upset because her cat died. Yeah right!
She is brought home.
What did they do to her before she fled - what did they do to her AFTER she was dragged home?

We should learn to listen to children.

 

[otto]

<modsnip>

I think they got custody of the six children is in part because Sarah had completed a teaching degree with a minor in special education. <modsnip> I think the fact that they were two women made it easier for the neighbors to return a traumatized child to the perpetrators.

What do others think happened that caused a child to jump out of the window?

And ... I have not presented anything as fact. I am asking why this girl did what she did to escape <modsnip>

 

[Stunned]

I'd like to make a comment on the women's estrangement from their families. I have been estranged from my family for 16 years. They just barely, and I do mean barely, acknowledge I exist. My mother will comment on the same thread I do on Facebook (I have some limited contact with one of my brothers) and consistently pretends I'm not there. I haven't had a conversation with her in about 14 years. I haven't spoken to my father at all in 16 years. My wife also has a very tenuous relationship with her parents. I was just invited in their house for the first time in February, after 16 years of being with their daughter. The estrangement in both our cases is entirely due to our family's religious beliefs. If something catastrophic were to happen in my life and it made the news, I'm sure both of our families would either refuse to comment or attempt to make themselves look better than they actually are. My point is that we don't know the real reason they were estranged from their families. It could be for any number of reasons. I also note with interest that the article recently posted about family annihilators points to childhood abuse as a precipitating factor of spousal and child abuse. Now, it is possible they both came from loving homes and their families disapproved of their treatment of the children and the women cut them off?...yes. I am just suggesting I suspect it's more nuanced than that.

I&#8217;m so sorry for you and your wife. Nothing is worse than family estrangement. No matter how hard your shell is.....you (me) will always yearn for it.

 

[emma.laurens]

Was Jen driving? ... never mind.

Jen was driving. Sarah was the teacher.

The children were so afraid of them that they risked injury to escape, only to be returned. There were problems with physical assault, food deprivation, lack of education, absence of life skills, and murder.

Why was the girl who escaped and hid behind the neighbor's furniture returned to these women without a proper investigation?

The DeKalbs (the neighbors who both Hannah and Devonte ran to) did not call CPS until (from what I understand) Devonte specifically requested it. I'm trying to be generous to them, especially the wife, as it does sound like she wanted to call CPS much earlier and was discouraged by her husband and daughter from doing so.

But ultimately, I can't fathom not calling the police after that. Especially after being told that Hannah was much older than she looked.

My bio family had CPS called on them by neighbors multiple times for much less. That poor girl. I hope she finally has peace, wherever she is now.

 

[Whiteorchids]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/post_296.html

83 pictures, most of the Children. At least they can be memorialized well. I hope they truly were having as much fun as it seemed in most of them despite the abuse we know they were also suffering.

Thanks for the link of all 83 photos. Those are the most recent ones I’ve seen so far. The kids and Sarah were quite affectionate in many photos. It appeared they loved each other. I think Jen was the evil one.

Did you catch the photo of the kids holding wood flats of blackberries? Neighbor was right they had blackberries.

 

[SATA]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2018/04/post_296.html

83 pictures, most of the Children. At least they can be memorialized well. I hope they truly were having as much fun as it seemed in most of them despite the abuse we know they were also suffering.

In the first one, or one of the first (the one where they are all wearing Bernie Sanders t shirts), notice Devonte´s clenched fist.
Look how Hannah is ALWAYS self conscious of her missing teeth. I believe that was an extra special punishment for little Hannah. At worst pulling her teeth, at the least not having them fixed.
But lots of very beautiful pictures, most too staged for my taste though.
Hope they had fun inbetween the abuse.

 

[otto]

Clearly this traumatized girl could not go to either of these women, so she ran to the neighbor's house.

 

[Talulah]

The DeKalbs (the neighbors who both Hannah and Devonte ran to) did not call CPS until (from what I understand) Devonte specifically requested it. I'm trying to be generous to them, especially the wife, as it does sound like she wanted to call CPS much earlier and was discouraged by her husband and daughter from doing so.

But ultimately, I can't fathom not calling the police after that. Especially after being told that Hannah was much older than she looked.

My bio family had CPS called on them by neighbors multiple times for much less. That poor girl. I hope she finally has peace, wherever she is now.

I agree. I honestly think I would keep the child in my house and not release them until the police arrived. I don't think custodial interference would necessarily apply if you truly believed the child was unsafe *in that moment.* Even if it did, I'd risk it. Anecdotally, I actually have a friend who has a conviction for custodial inference for letting a 16 year old runaway from an abusive situation stay at her house when she was in her 20's. She hasn't had many if any issues with the charge after explaining the circumstances.

 

[11223344]

I'd like to make a comment on the women's estrangement from their families. I have been estranged from my family for 16 years. They just barely, and I do mean barely, acknowledge I exist. My mother will comment on the same thread I do on Facebook (I have some limited contact with one of my brothers) and consistently pretends I'm not there. I haven't had a conversation with her in about 14 years. I haven't spoken to my father at all in 16 years. My wife also has a very tenuous relationship with her parents. I was just invited in their house for the first time in February, after 16 years of being with their daughter. The estrangement in both our cases is entirely due to our family's religious beliefs. If something catastrophic were to happen in my life and it made the news, I'm sure both of our families would either refuse to comment or attempt to make themselves look better than they actually are. My point is that we don't know the real reason they were estranged from their families. It could be for any number of reasons. I also note with interest that the article recently posted about family annihilators points to childhood abuse as a precipitating factor of spousal and child abuse. Now, it is possible they both came from loving homes and their families disapproved of their treatment of the children and the women cut them off?...yes. I am just suggesting I suspect it's more nuanced than that.

This situation is completely different than yours. The fact that they really had no close friends. No one came to their house. The people who call themselves "their friends" know them from the shows, music events, and political events. Have camped out next to them, but don't know about their daily lives, aren't visiting, no one is seeing the kids or them regularly. Asking how their education is going? If they have girlfriends? Normal kid stuff? The kids don't seem to have friends! No play dates, outside activities? Classes? Drivers licenses? At ages 19, 16, 15? So the fact that neither woman's family is involved, seeing the family, talking to the kids, checking in, holidays, visiting, it's very concerning. It would also really increase the need for friends, resources, and added support in community of which they refused and secluded themselves from. Several people from the concert group have even come forward and said they tried to engage more with the kids, offer more support, get more involve were spurned. Neighbors reports, etc...so it's more about patterns, isolating.
It's also just another example of breaking ties for this family, connections, attachments. Questions their ability to truly bond.

 

[emma.laurens]

Re: sexuality/abuse

Patterns of physical abuse would be enough. We know, at this point, that at least one of the women was capable of it. <modsnip> I grew up with a group of kids, including my brother and I, who were routinely physically abused to the point of running away for short periods. None of us were sexually abused by our parents.

 

[XrayVision]

Just a thought.....Jen seems to be very controlling and Sarah may be as well. It&#8217;s possible Devonte was caught asking for food and told the truth to his parents. They panic and run and work up a story for the kids over the next 2 days. Maybe the kids knew what was about to happen at the end. Jen and Sarah could have told them that this outcome was the best because CPS would be coming and all the children would be split apart. They could have told the children terrible stories about what life would become. Maybe they drove until the money ran out. I would assume for children in these situations that life without your siblings would be unthinkable. Even if some children wanted out, they might go along to be together.

 

[Talulah]

This situation is completely different than yours. The fact that they really had no close friends. No one came to their house. The people who call themselves "their friends" know them from the shows, music events, and political events. Have camped out next to them, but don't know about their daily lives, aren't visiting, no one is seeing the kids or them regularly. Asking how their education is going? If they have girlfriends? Normal kid stuff? The kids don't seem to have friends! No play dates, outside activities? Classes? Drivers licenses? At ages 19, 16, 15? So the fact that neither woman's family is involved, seeing the family, talking to the kids, checking in, holidays, visiting, it's very concerning. It would also really increase the need for friends, resources, and added support in community of which they refused and secluded themselves from. Several people from the concert group have even come forward and said they tried to engage more with the kids, offer more support, get more involve were spurned. Neighbors reports, etc...so it's more about patterns, isolating.
It's also just another example of breaking ties for this family, connections, attachments. Questions their ability to truly bond.

I was speaking to nothing more than the familial estrangement. If they couldn't bond...why? These things have roots in families of origin.

 

[emma.laurens]

We're getting dangerously close to speculation here, so I hesitate to make this any deeper... and I preface all of this with a big, fat IMO... but I wouldn't be surprised if one or both women distanced themselves from abusive families of origin. Reactive attachment syndrome, untreated in adults, is often diagnosed as borderline personality disorder. The same patterns of fear of abandonment, intense superficial attachment, and a fixation with grandiosity/personal image characterize both. As numerous other posters have observed, Jen displays many of the characteristic behaviors. The message to their Facebook friends listing a litany of personal misfortunes and tragedies, while covering up the involvement of CPS, is a big red flag to me.

 

[otto]

Just a thought.....Jen seems to be very controlling and Sarah may be as well. It&#8217;s possible Devonte was caught asking for food and told the truth to his parents. They panic and run and work up a story for the kids over the next 2 days. Maybe the kids knew what was about to happen at the end. Jen and Sarah could have told them that this outcome was the best because CPS would be coming and all the children would be split apart. They could have told the children terrible stories about what life would become. Maybe they drove until the money ran out. I would assume for children in these situations that life without your siblings would be unthinkable. Even if some children wanted out, they might go along to be together.

BBM

I totally agree that since they were two sets of siblings, no one of them could be separated from their siblings ... perhaps because of what they thought the remaining children might suffer?

 

[Whiteorchids]

Look at the link above that shows 83 photos. There’s also some of the cliff and LE mixed in.

 

[otto]

<modsnip> I am merely looking at the nuances of a couple who has children under their control and who manipulate the public to allow them to abuse those children to the death.

 

[Whiteorchids]

BBM

I totally agree that since they were two sets of siblings, no one of them could be separated from their siblings ... perhaps because of what they thought the remaining children might suffer?

This is exactly why I think all were asleep but the driver. They were tired from all the driving. It was late that’s why no one saw them go off the cliff.