Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[Mariposa]

Yes, this is the specific - MD to CPS link never established.

The fact that Oregon (great work) only got MN details through noticing a licence plate is astonishing...

If no alarm on the case from a doc, MD, CPS hands are tied... Because that's the corroborated evidence they need.

Back to an original thought, was the MD an independent third party choice? An assigned MD by the CPS side?

I assume so, otherwise peeps would be all over it...

Jen and Sarah SELECTED the doctor. See pages 10-11 of the 30 page report at the end of this story linked below. Those pages include Info about phone convos to Harts about how the Harts were going to select a primary care provider and set up the appointments. (Big surprise - after months in Oregon with SIX kids they had no existing relationship with a primary care provider).

http://katu.com/news/local/dhs-rele...-hart-children-jen-sarah-devonte-hannah-ciera

So no ----it was not some independent medical examiner. My bet is they found some one who they could easily snow with their crap (such as, they were troubled and damaged when we got them, we are vegan/whole food/naturopathy peace and love, blah blah blah). Worked like a charm apparently.

 

[mtnlites]

A thought literally just occurred to me...Could they have "rehomed" Devonte and Hannah before they left or while they were on the road? If they felt betrayed, they might have considered that an option. Then later they would make up a story online about what happened. Rehoming is a thing and since LE took their computers, they may have found info that makes them think they are alive (hence the "traveling together" wording).

I mostly think they are dead and may never be found. However, if they felt betrayed by Devonte and disappointed in Hannah, it might have crossed their minds. If so, they could have done it and then in hindsight realized that they really crossed the line and would definitely get in trouble (or at least lose their glossy image if people found out).

Rehoming happens and it is kind of an underground thing. Just tossing it out there as an idea.

 

[Eloise]

You're right. But I don't think CPS can mandate what medical testing is done. That's up to the expert. And he or she gave the parents the benefit of the doubt and did not insist. I mean the doctor had a conversation with CPS and could've said- "we really need to do additional testing to rule out abuse or neglect. " But it appears that did not happen. Infuriating

I think medical practitioners should be the last word on whether or not kids are healthy rather than CPS, who are not medically trained. However if a doctor didn't do their job in ensuring the health of their patients then I think that doctor should be reported to the responsible medical board, who can investigate whether or not the doctor was derelict of duty.

 

[human]

Those who had the chance to to interact with the children in person for a longer times noticed more and some (at least two) reported abuse. Some chose to ignore the whole story and any possible consequences/confrontations.
On FB you see others put likes and leave encouraging comments, you do the same/ a form of 'herd mentality'/, because this is the least you can offer to support a member in the same social/ cultural group. You don't dare to question or criticize them, otherwise you will be harshly attacked, ostracised and stigmatized of being an oppressor or a 'naive' person who don't really understand how much suffering these two ladies/ and the kids have been experienced. They think the two women must have been victims of the same society and norms they fight or disapprove. So, don't you ever forget this. This is our main priority now. This is what we can discuss not some fake and staged photo sessions and alleged abuse by a 'respected member'. It is a well established fact in their minds that prevents you from arguing or denying. Any negative comment would be interpreted like that: You are acting like the society, system, world and many other parties the couple and their friends really think they are struggling with. You don't know enough about their lives. You don't respect their 'unique' life style. You are a close-minded person and not cool enough as you claim. You don't belong here..... Note that you don't find any deep discussions on their profiles. Just posts about having fun or whining about the oppressive and cruel world. Very shallow minds imo but ready and have time and resources to rant and defend their 'friends.'
You don't want that of course, so you keep liking and pouring love messages. They stop you from being critical and you don't want to be excluded from a group virtually (online) and physically (not invited to events, no socializing with you /and your family and accusations start: 'you are a traitor, you are not progressive enough, ...etc).
- There is no way people have not noticed these red flags, displayed clearly online and in many encounters that lasted from one week to four week each, they simply kept silent thinking: it is not a big deal; others would do the job and report or this is not my job. I'm here to have fun and party then post about the wonderful life we run away from the traditional life outside my circle/s.

Brilliant. ananlysis. So true!

 

[gitana1]

this is something that bothers me a lot about Devonte and his free hugs sign (makes me want to scream every picture I see of him with that damn sign). Who encourages their child to make their body and their hugs available to any random stranger they see? That's not beautiful, it's not spreading a message of love. It's treating your child like a therapy dog instead of a human being.

Oh my gosh that's a great way to describe it. Perfect. He was used as a therapy dog. Mind. Blown.

So sad.

 

[Smoneywcbs]

Oh my gosh that's a great way to describe it. Perfect. He was used as a therapy dog. Mind. Blown.

So sad.

My golden retriever is shy. I wouldn’t even subject my dog to that.


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[human]

I was trying to figure out what motivated them. They took in a foster girl for a friend. Maybe they got big accolades for that and then they got the idea of more fostering and then the big idea of adopting.

They probably got all kinds of martyr kudos and it snowballed from the begniing. However, it sounds like they were incredibly ridiculously rigid from day one.

They loved the accolades and did not even know that what they were doing was abusive otherwise they would not have done it in front of others.

The really abusive stuff must be kept secret. I can’t even imagine how horrifying if they thought having children not laughing and lying in bed with sleep masks as being acceptable.

I am not sure if the children knew what abuse was. After all, the little one who said she had owies only said something because they hurt, not because she thought it was wrong.

 

[Talullah]

Surely they figured out it was abusive after Sara ended up on probation, but they seemed to think they knew how to parent better than anyone else. I’ve considered they were estranged from their families because they resented advice. Being different was everything to them and conforming wasn’t an option. If they’d faced the music conforming would’ve been the least of their problems .

 

[Mira_Eg]

From the New York Times: Hart Family, Which Drove Off Cliff, Hid Dark Home Life From View by Matt Stevens
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/us/hart-family-crash.html

"In the Hart household, any act of insubordination could be severely punished. The children knew this all too well."

- “We believe the release of these records may help avoid future tragedies,” Caroline Burnell of the Oregon Department of Human Services said in a letter accompanying the documents.

- The reporter interviewed Ms. Lorraine Fealy (71) former neighbour of the Harts when living in MN.
The lady was interviewed by the Washington Post few days ago.
“They’d all come down the steps single file and walk out in the yard single file,” she said.

- From Washington: Later on March 27, the department (Department of Social and Health Services) got some news. It would not need to make any more visits. The family had been in a car crash in California, the case notes say, and all eight of its members were dead.

 

[Aescwynn]

Jen and Sarah SELECTED the doctor. See pages 10-11 of the 30 page report at the end of this story linked below. Those pages include Info about phone convos to Harts about how the Harts were going to select a primary care provider and set up the appointments. (Big surprise - after months in Oregon with SIX kids they had no existing relationship with a primary care provider).

I somehow missed that in the document. Even though it's not a surprise, to have it confirmed like that is bracing. How disgusting. So, not just six kids, but the six kids that Jen (in particular) was always crowing about on social media to have this special need or that and to have come from "hard places"; and the women didn't even bother to establish regular medical care for them? That's a level of neglect that I cannot comprehend.

Neglect of children is seen in other circumstances, as an example from those who have crippling addictions. For me, this is terrible to see because of how addictions destroy lives, but for me (anyway) I can comprehend it. Not condone it, but I can comprehend the cycle of how it works. With this whole Hart family thing, I simply cannot comprehend WTH was driving these women. It's as if she (Jen) adopted the children for very shallow reasons-- white savior, possibly to have them as fodder for her photography portfolio-- and then immediately realized she was in over her head. And instead of admitting it and doing something about it, she began taking it out on the children, as if existing was their fault.

 

[staunchcharacter]

delete please

 

[staunchcharacter]

I find it weird that in the document, Sarah tells them she isn't that sure about Jen's travel plans. If my wife was taking our kids out of state on a decently long trip, I would know their travel plans. We would have discussed how much this trip would cost, where they would be staying, etc.

 

[hdva18]

I was trying to figure out what motivated them. They took in a foster girl for a friend. Maybe they got big accolades for that and then they got the idea of more fostering and then the big idea of adopting.

They loved the accolades and did not even know that what they were doing was abusive otherwise they would not have done it in front of others.

I somehow feel none of this was altruistic. She didn’t have a college degree. That was probably going to be tough for job prospects. They somehow came to know about this adoption agency and that you get paid to adopt kids. Easy Money!!! So, to show that they will be great candidates, they fostered a kid. As soon as the adoption came through they dropped the foster kid like a hot potato. If it is not for the money I don’t know anyone who would adopt 6 little kids in the house – all of them less than 10. It doesn’t make any sense altruism, accolades not withstanding. They did for the money. What is not clear is why they were so abusive to the kids and it seems the abuse started within a year or two of adoption.

 

[human]

A thought literally just occurred to me...Could they have "rehomed" Devonte and Hannah before they left or while they were on the road? If they felt betrayed, they might have considered that an option. Then later they would make up a story online about what happened. Rehoming is a thing and since LE took their computers, they may have found info that makes them think they are alive (hence the "traveling together" wording).

I mostly think they are dead and may never be found. However, if they felt betrayed by Devonte and disappointed in Hannah, it might have crossed their minds. If so, they could have done it and then in hindsight realized that they really crossed the line and would definitely get in trouble (or at least lose their glossy image if people found out).

Rehoming happens and it is kind of an underground thing. Just tossing it out there as an idea.

Why would they rehome the nasty traitors? A beating is required for having an unauthorized penny. What would traitor get them?

 

[Electric Sheep]

I think they starved Hannah to death weeks before the crash, and that was why Devonte told the neighbors that these women were "trying to starve him to death". I think Devonte either ran away or was beaten to death for his "betrayal". I think that the other kids were so beaten down that they actually welcomed death as an escape from the misery of their lives so they may have "drank the cool ade" or the Benadryl to get the heck out of that family.

So sad.

 

[enelram]

Food for thought......I wonder if- since JH and SH are dead, LE will back off solving this crime and not continue investigating. LE has limited resources to pursue dead end crimes. In their eyes the perps are dead. They've
already hinted that they believe all the children were most likely in the car and went over the cliff.

I suspect we, here on WS, have more invested in trying to totally solve this mystery than LE, at this point. In their eyes,
the perps are dead. The crime is over, done. Close up file.

I'd really like to read the FBI file on this and see how thoroughly OR NOT, they pursued this. DEAD FILE, IMO.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

From the New York Times: Hart Family, Which Drove Off Cliff, Hid Dark Home Life From View by Matt Stevens
Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/us/hart-family-crash.html

"In the Hart household, any act of insubordination could be severely punished. The children knew this all too well."

- “We believe the release of these records may help avoid future tragedies,” Caroline Burnell of the Oregon Department of Human Services said in a letter accompanying the documents.

- The reporter interviewed Ms. Lorraine Fealy (71) former neighbour of the Harts when living in MN.
The lady was interviewed by the Washington Post few days ago.
“They’d all come down the steps single file and walk out in the yard single file,” she said.

- From Washington: Later on March 27, the department (Department of Social and Health Services) got some news. It would not need to make any more visits. The family had been in a car crash in California, the case notes say, and all eight of its members were dead.

The below paragraph, taken from above NY Times article infuriates me - it reeks of bias:

"The problem, one Minnesota welfare worker noted, according to documents, was that Jennifer and Sarah Hart “look

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[cady]

According to the NYT article, it was a CPS investigator who saw Jen pull in to the driveway and then did not answer the door when the investigator knocked. Has anyone figured out where Jen had been? Could she have been searching for Devonte and Hannah? If she had been at a grocery store or some retail place, I'm sure someone would have noticed. Maybe not if she was fuelling up with a credit card, but there should be a record of that. Wherever she went, it likely wasn't for a long time, having to leave all the kids home alone. I am still suspicious of what went on that day before they all absconded. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

According to the NYT article, it was a CPS investigator who saw Jen pull in to the driveway and then did not answer the door when the investigator knocked. Has anyone figured out where Jen had been? Could she have been searching for Devonte and Hannah? If she had been at a grocery store or some retail place, I'm sure someone would have noticed. Maybe not if she was fuelling up with a credit card, but there should be a record of that. Wherever she went, it likely wasn't for a long time, having to leave all the kids home alone. I am still suspicious of what went on that day before they all absconded. JMO

Me too. Did something happened that triggered the trip? Did they start pre-planning the day before? They may have left at 3am not because there was a crisis at that moment but because they wanted to leave when no one would notice, or by the time anyone noticed they would be hundreds of miles away. Or maybe they started something earlier and 3am was when they finished.

 

[Hoosgirl]

I know chances are quite low, but I can't help but hope that Devonte and Hannah escaped this evil. What a miracle that would be! I wish local LE and FBI would release more about those possible parks they may have been at, or anything that would encourage the public to keep their eye out.

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