Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[Kajol85]

If you could direct me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I only get one hit searching "extract" in the prior 6 threads and it's in thread 5. I've been reading here since the early days of the first thread and I have not seen any thorough discussion of how easy it would be for an untrained person to extract teeth without special tools.

TIA

Pehaps Jen only shoved Hannah to the ground hard enough for her two front teeth to fall out whole??🙄

The point is I don't believe that those teeth came out in an accident, nor that Hannah didn't want them fixed in the aftermath. Every time Jen opened her mouth lies came out, why are we thinking this story is for real?

 

[Sleuth99]

I read Dontay is 21 and is now in prison. I believe he is 5 years older than Devonte and a half brother. The mother had 7 kids, different fathers. Jeremiah is a half brother. Ill look for the link.

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Hey, what's the relevance of that information outside of Dontay's age? Family is family [emoji848]


IMO

 

[Momoffourboys]

A good re-cap of the docs released.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/04/25/...n-report/index.html?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Momoffourboys]

Everton Bailey Jr.
Everton Bailey Jr.
@EvertonBailey
A Minnesota child welfare worker once told an Oregon DHS employee that Texas, where all of 6 of the Hart children are from, carried out adoptions “even when the child welfare office has not supported the placement."

https://mobile.twitter.com/EvertonBailey/status/988810869206278144

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

Possible ways the tooth could have fallen out were discussed. Id have to go back and search those discussions.

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but why bother when we can just assert that she probably pulled them out, or punched her in the face to knock them out on purpose?

 

[fridaybaker]

Could be Hannah was being mouthy and with Mumster’s temper with her fist punched her hard in the mouth which knocked out her teeth. She was a very small girl so her teeth were most likely small. Mumster Jen did use her fist on Abigail. I don’t believe Sarah did it as Abigail said it was Jen.

I also think JH was the one who hit the girl with her fist.

And: the mothers seemed to have a fixation on everything to do with eating: Mouths, teeth, food, etc. What a strange thing to do -post photos of your daughter's bloody tooth on the internet.

And: Every single child seemed to be required to be smiling in every single photo. (Really, of hundreds and hundreds of photos of children, virtually none of them show disinterest, grumpiness, anything other than absolute joy?)

And: Seemingly hundreds of incidents of food strangeness/withholding: "Eating out of garbage bins, off the floor". "Hannah was morbidly obese". Markis "I'll see if anything is left when everyone is finished". Etc., etc., etc.

A 12 year-old who has no front teeth, and there are no plans to fix it. (There weren't any. She'd been without teeth, bridge or anything else for years.)

Shoving food in children's mouths.

It's the "shoving the banana and some nuts" in Hannah's mouth that make me think it highly likely that the missing front teeth have something to do with punishment, and most likely food-related punishment.

A few posts back someone said they thought that JH had body/image/food issues that she projected onto the children. I'm 100% certain, at this point, that that is so.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Hey, what's the relevance of that information outside of Dontay's age? Family is family [emoji848]


IMO

He may have gone to live with his own father.

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[gitana1]

If I read the report correctly, not only did OR reach out to MN, but they also had two other people in addition to the original reporter corroborating the initial report.

If this understanding is correct, then CPS should not have needed corroboration from the children. It seemed that between the lack of any reported abuse by the children, along with the physician's inconclusive report, the case was closed. Perhaps this is an area where CPS could improve their case procedures before closing the case?

I don't see what they could do differently unless it is to mandate more follow ups and greater scrutiny when people have been in the system with founded abuse previously. And there should be a national registry.

It looks like one of the two people interviewed was the original reporter. Nothing was corroborated by either the kids, the parents or the doctor who found nothing wrong. That doctor makes me crazy. He or she should've said, two families and both off the charts. We need tons of follow up. This is a red flag for abuse or neglect. But nope. Just took the women's word for it.

Regardless, without corroboration there was nothing more thatcouldvd been done and without changes in the law that could prove more intrusive to everyone, there's nothing for CPS to work on. CPS was diligent. I think the proof is in the pudding. They voluntarily released confidential records to show how hard they worked.

 

[fridaybaker]

Hey, what's the relevance of that information outside of Dontay's age? Family is family [emoji848]

IMO

Sleuth, it might be relevant. I'm just saying that, even if the elder brother had significant behavioral problems, what a devastating thing to have happen on top of it all: Abusive parents, then all your brothers and sisters adopted but you. Never to be heard from again, from what we know. (If he did any "interneting" at all he'd think they were all living fabulous lives.)

It could certainly have added to the, likely many, things that contributed to him ending up where he did. It seems he never had much of a chance in life.

 

[katsrfun]

I don't know if this has been discussed; if so, I'm sorry, I haven't read every page. Maybe DeVonte and Hannah did escape. What happened to the food that was left outside by the neighbors. Maybe they took it and got away. I doubt the two mothers found it in their frenzy to get away. And, if it was still there, the LE would have found it when they searched. Did the neighbors ever look to see when it was gone, or am I misunderstanding and DeVonte asked for food, but they never left it?

Thank you guys for all your thought and input; we all hope these two are alive and will be found. Katt

 

[fridaybaker]

but why bother when we can just assert that she probably pulled them out, or punched her in the face to knock them out on purpose?

I don't think anyone's "asserting" that as fact. I think we'll all trying to piece together what happened here that led up to the murder. Trying to figure out what could have been/should have been red flags, etc.

 

[gitana1]

I also think JH was the one who hit the girl with her fist.

And: the mothers seemed to have a fixation on everything to do with eating: Mouths, teeth, food, etc. What a strange thing to do -post photos of your daughter's bloody tooth on the internet.

And: Every single child seemed to be required to be smiling in every single photo. (Really, of hundreds and hundreds of photos of children, virtually none of them show disinterest, grumpiness, anything other than absolute joy?)

And: Seemingly hundreds of incidents of food strangeness/withholding: "Eating out of garbage bins, off the floor". "Hannah was morbidly obese". Markis "I'll see if anything is left when everyone is finished". Etc., etc., etc.

A 12 year-old who has no front teeth, and there are no plans to fix it. (There weren't any. She'd been without teeth, bridge or anything else for years.)

Shoving food in children's mouths.

It's the "shoving the banana and some nuts" in Hannah's mouth that make me think it highly likely that the missing front teeth have something to do with punishment, and most likely food-related punishment.

A few posts back someone said they thought that JH had body/image/food issues that she projected onto the children. I'm 100% certain, at this point, that that is so.

Wasnt she actually 16? Or do you mean at the time of the the Oregon report?

 

[debbiegarcia36]

I don't know if this has been discussed; if so, I'm sorry, I haven't read every page. Maybe DeVonte and Hannah did escape. What happened to the food that was left outside by the neighbors. Maybe they took it and got away. I doubt the two mothers found it in their frenzy to get away. And, if it was still there, the LE would have found it when they searched. Did the neighbors ever look to see when it was gone, or am I misunderstanding and DeVonte asked for food, but they never left it?

Thank you guys for all your thought and input; we all hope these two are alive and will be found. Katt

I was wondering if the neighbors verified that they left a supply of tortillas and pnut butter. I recall Devonte asking for it but Im not sure if they ran off to the store and bought it. I think at that time tbe DeKalb's decided to call authorities.

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[human]

He asked for a case of peanut butter, I think?

I doubt if the DeKalb’s had that at their house.

If a child kept coming to my house asking for food, especially after the Hannah incident, I would be wondering what the heck and discussing it with friends to get their take on it.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

Hey, what's the relevance of that information outside of Dontay's age? Family is family [emoji848]


IMO

Im not sure they were all raised together. Dont try to make something out of nothing. Another poster asked about Dontay and I stated what was in the article. Dontay could have been living with someone else and that could be relevant in the adoption process. Who knows.

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[gitana1]

Thanks KaBoom.

But just so you know, that's not the full CPS report. That's more like the summary, which is only 12 pages long. There's a longer, more detailed 30 page report which is formatted differently and is like an itemized list of all communications/interactions over the years.

The latter full report is embedded at the bottom of the KATU article Bramworthy linked to upthread.

Thank you guys (everyone!) I really appreciate it although it's so terrible to read. .

 

[catastrophe_]

This is not the first time I've seen this kind of opinion.

Anyone here with dental expertise? As in, how hard would it be for a person without training to extract permanent teeth intact with the roots?

My sense is without the proper tool and training, the average person is likely to break the tooth while trying to extract it, but I'd like more knowledgeable people to weigh in.

I have been avoiding sharing this experience of mine but I feel it's finally appropriate to I guess.

A long time ago, when two of my cousins and I were about six years old, we decided to play blind folded Marco Polo in this room that happened to be an old hospital waiting room; one wall had a brick edge that went floor to ceiling. My younger cousin hadn't gotten to be 'It' yet so we bent the rules and let her have a go at chasing us. Not even five minutes in to her turn while she's running around with her eyes closed, with hands and arms straight out in front of her (like you'd think, would be safe enough to prevent this from happening...) just wide enough that she was able to run, directly towards, and IN TO that brick edged corner where the two walls meet. Her hands missed both sides of the wall, and her face went directly in to meet that brick edge

Since my eyes were open at this point, I got to see her run straight into the brick wall, and watch one of her front teeth go flying out from her mouth, root and all. It was also a screaming blood bath afterwards. The tooth was big enough for me to see it flying through the air, as I thought it was a piece of paper somehow (?)
Her dad came and they transported the rooted tooth in a glass of milk to an emergency dentist nearby that later determined, since it was a baby tooth there wasn't much to do to save it... She had her school photos that year with a huge front tooth gap, and it was there for quite a while until the adult tooth grew in.

 

[Kajol85]

Well, one question I've had is regarding Hannah after the "escape" incident. Does anyone know offhand if she was seen at all afterward? I'm going to look some on Google, but I'm not on social media sites so am not able to check there. I'll see what I can dig up, though.

^^^

That is a really good question. Those kids were extremely isolated in WA.

Does anyone know what was the last picture taken of all the kids together?

 

[Kajol85]

LE also said they were all buckled in-and they were not. LE also said all six kids were in the Yukon-and now have missing flyers for two of them.

Like I said...I may be naive. Just MOO.

Maybe something like that, sure.

There was a decade of documented and pretty severe abuse. As more continues to come out, it seems even more clear that it was premeditated and intentional.

 

[enelram]

^^^

That is a really good question. Those kids were extremely isolated in WA.

Does anyone know what was the last picture taken of all the kids together?

I believe the Hannah incident was in August 2017 so pics showing date after that would maybe help answer that.