Deceased/Not Found Ca - Hannah,16 (fnd dec), Devonte,15, (dec nf) Ciera Hart,12 (fnd dec),mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #7

[SATA]

Or tied to her bed as punishment. I would think Devonte would tell the DeKalbs if "something" happened to Hannah, unless he was not unaware. It is my belief though, that Hannah was severely punished for jumping out the window and running to the DeKalbs house.

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We don´t know his logic - or how much he was controlled by fear.

He did mention death to the DeKalbs. He said, they are starving me to death. Maybe he had seen it.

But then, he asked for six of everything. "Something" might have been imminent with Hannah and a catalyst for DeVonte´s food enterprise. It must have been DANGEROUS for him to do this.
Maybe "something" happened to Hannah inbetween the food requests and the VERY sudden departure.

 

[Starkville]

If Hannah were dead already, wouldn’t Devonte have told the neighbors?

Alhough I do think she may have been too weak to participate, or punished by being left behind, restrained.

 

[bluwaters]

Or Hannah flat out refused, no matter what they would do to her.
I suspect Hannah was just not compliant, no matter what.
Bless her.
Bless all of those children.

Where is Hannah?
Where is Devonte?

 

[bluwaters]

If Hannah were dead already, wouldn’t Devonte have told the neighbors?

Alhough I do think she may have been too weak to participate, or punished by being left behind, restrained.

I agree.
If Hannah were gone, for whatever reason, Devonte would have told the Dekalbs.
He did tell them that Hannah had told them the truth the night she ran to them for sanctuary.
So Devonte discussed Hannah with the neighbors.

 

[SATA]

If Hannah were dead already, wouldn’t Devonte have told the neighbors?

Alhough I do think she may have been too weak to participate, or punished by being left behind, restrained.

It is possible she died between Devonte talking to the Dekalbs and the departure of the Hart family.

I always thought it was over the top (if you can use that expression in this context!) to plunge yourself and your entire family over a cliff into the ocean over a visit from CPS.
After all, they had been there, done that, always persuading the services that they were doing fine.

This time, there must have been more.

 

[Silver~Bell]

I think there's a tendency to assume that LE is only doing what they've told us. We don't know - they haven't announced it, but they may well be considering the possibility that Hannah died earlier. I'm sure that given all they've seen, FBI agents will easily realize all the possibilities that have been speculated on here, in addition to others. They may also have dismissed this because they have proof we don't know about that Hannah was alive very recently, or even that she was on the trip - we just don't know.

No, we don't know. But I've seen enough shoddy police work -at all levels - in my life to be concerned.

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[kizzykat]

I wondered if Hannah wasn't in the video because she was either deceased or injured somehow that JH couldn't easily explain away. Broken bones trying to heal in an awkward position. When Devonte looks back over his shoulder at the 0:27 mark that sure looks like terror in his eyes. I wonder JH if harmed Hannah and the other kids witnessed it happen. Those two wouldn't seek medical help, not with their past. MOO

 

[Guitargal]

I think Jen flipped out after realizing her ''golden child' had sold her down the river.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Or Hannah flat out refused, no matter what they would do to her.
I suspect Hannah was just not compliant, no matter what.
Bless her.
Bless all of those children.

Where is Hannah?
Where is Devonte?

I do think this is the case. Hannah was a rebel.
Devonte was pleading for food, not the police.
He wanted to escape perhaps with the rebel child who encouraged him?

Eta: Devonte seemed to distinguish between authorities, ie don't call the police but have you called yet? Meaning CPS?

Meaning check us out but don't split us up.

 

[rosemadderlake]

No, we don't know. But I've seen enough shoddy police work -at all levels - in my life to be concerned.

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This is such a valid concern... I don't think that is the case here. In fact, I think details are being withheld in case Devonte and Hannah are still alive... The FBI dosen't get involved without reason..
Jmo.

 

[debbiegarcia36]

We don´t know his logic - or how much he was controlled by fear.

He did mention death to the DeKalbs. He said, they are starving me to death. Maybe he had seen it.

But then, he asked for six of everything. "Something" might have been imminent with Hannah and a catalyst for DeVonte´s food enterprise. It must have been DANGEROUS for him to do this.
Maybe "something" happened to Hannah inbetween the food requests and the VERY sudden departure.

Good point.

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[hdva18]

I can't figure out how to break text into separate paragraphs. Can an admin break up this? Can someone update the timeline to include the time the adoption agency was in business, out of business and then back in business? Was Jennifer Hart licensed to adopt or did she lie when she adopted the first or second set of kids? A part of me sincerely wants the kids to be given back to someone who will give them a proper burial and not be buried with Jennifer Hart of Sarah Hart. I wrote to the Oregonian staff and they said they don't know any details of memorial service. I would be heartbroken if these beautilful children are buried with Sarah and Jennifer Hart. When Sherin Mathews was murdered by her parents in Dallas, TX, the community got together for a memorial service. I hope there will be a community memorial for these kids too. Going by the way mainstream media is not covering these stories, I wonder if there will be a local, public memorial service. The NY times had a single story weeks ago. I wonder why NY times is not covering this story. Washington Post has been doing a follow-up story every week I think.

 

[Sleuth99]

Damn, what is so heartbreaking is would anyone have ever questioned this if they were all still alive?

I would have. The video is missing laughter and peer to peer interaction to say the least. 🤷🏾*♀️


IMO

 

[Doghairrules]

Super interesting thoughts.

It got me thinking about my own perusal of social media. I go super fast. (I read and write here fast as well which is why I have odd typos and strange words sometimes, (autocorrect)). I don't know if I would notice anything off in my friend's posts of their kids as a result. Do most people do more than scan, maybe a nice comment and move on?

Besides the sort of confirmation bias you're describing, could that also be a reason few among her insular circles saw red flags?

I have noticed friends with various psychological issues on fb. One acquaintance who is constantly taking herself to the hospital, posts that she’s almost dead and will be there for weeks followed by months in rehab and then she’s home in a few days. Every single time.

With another one, it became apparent that she was so dysfunctional - picking fights with people over silly things and then reporting that she was being bullied (this one is in her 40s. When I tried to provide a little loving perspective she unfriended me. Lol

So I think some of us who spend more time than we should on social media would have questioned at least some of what JH was posting.

 

[Doghairrules]

How would this be handled in a court of law?

What I mean is, let's say they had been charged with (whatever is the right charge for feeding the children way too little), and were in a trial. The prosecution would bring forward the friends as witnesses. The friends would describe the many times they saw the children be denied food, and the school staff would describe the many times the children were hungry. The kids refused to testify against the Harts and the Harts refused to self-incriminate. Is that enough evidence to convict? How about if you throw in the children's weight & height against the charts?

Maybe an outside, independent doctor who had access to whatever historical medical records for the kids? There had to be some, at the least from before they were adopted.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I can't figure out how to break text into separate paragraphs. Can an admin break up this? Can someone update the timeline to include the time the adoption agency was in business, out of business and then back in business? Was Jennifer Hart licensed to adopt or did she lie when she adopted the first or second set of kids? A part of me sincerely wants the kids to be given back to someone who will give them a proper burial and not be buried with Jennifer Hart of Sarah Hart. I wrote to the Oregonian staff and they said they don't know any details of memorial service. I would be heartbroken if these beautilful children are buried with Sarah and Jennifer Hart. When Sherin Mathews was murdered by her parents in Dallas, TX, the community got together for a memorial service. I hope there will be a community memorial for these kids too. Going by the way mainstream media is not covering these stories, I wonder if there will be a local, public memorial service. The NY times had a single story weeks ago. I wonder why NY times is not covering this story. Washington Post has been doing a follow-up story every week I think.

hdva, ha! Sounds like a wordprossessing nightmare thing?

I do agree, thank you. Where are these children going to be buried and memorialized?

 

[gitana1]

The children's heights and weights would be the real evidence and, with proof that they didn't have any genetic or underlying conditions causing them to be underweight, it would be difficult to deny that they weren't being neglected and abused. Where CPS went wrong in this case was not pursuing it from a medical angle. As I posted earlier, they should have done some basic bloodwork and looked at iron/potassium/magnesium levels, as well as ketones (which would have shown that they were't getting proper nutrition). If any of those were worrisome then they could have gone further and ran some genetic testing and even some gastrointestinal studies to see if there was an issue with absorbtion. There wouldn't be, of course, because the two sets of kids were not related.

They definitely could have gone at it from this angle, but they didn't.

You're right. But I don't think CPS can mandate what medical testing is done. That's up to the expert. And he or she gave the parents the benefit of the doubt and did not insist. I mean the doctor had a conversation with CPS and could've said- "we really need to do additional testing to rule out abuse or neglect. " But it appears that did not happen. Infuriating

 

[Doghairrules]

Ultimately I believe that bias led to the deaths of six beautiful, intelligent, incredible, innocent kids who anyone would've been lucky to call theirs.


That makes me very upset.

Wow. This post is everything. I heart you, Gitana. And I desperately wish these beautiful children had had an advocate like you.

 

[rosemadderlake]

You're right. But I don't think CPS can mandate what medical testing is done. That's up to the expert. And he or she gave the parents the benefit of the doubt and did not insist. I mean the doctor had a conversation with CPS and could've said- "we really need to do additional testing to rule out abuse or neglect. " But it appears that did not happen. Infuriating

Yes, this is the specific - MD to CPS link never established.

The fact that Oregon (great work) only got MN details through noticing a licence plate is astonishing...

If no alarm on the case from a doc, MD, CPS hands are tied... Because that's the corroborated evidence they need.

Back to an original thought, was the MD an independent third party choice? An assigned MD by the CPS side?

I assume so, otherwise peeps would be all over it...

 

[LeighB]

Alexandra Argyropolous said that she was the one who pointed out that the Harts had lived in MN previously. I don't know why OR CPS wasn't going to ask about previous residences themselves.

And when I read the summary of the OR CPS case, I'm fairly certain I saw that the doctor was the Harts' doctor, not a third party.

I'm ok with that as long as she was an MD and they actually followed up on the results of the 6 month follow-up, which literally would have saved these children's lives. I do not understand why they didn't - and I'm a CPS-minimalist.