Identified! CA - Huntington Beach, WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, poss name Andrea, Apr'90 - Andrea Kuiper

[Jerri Blank]

I have been thinking about hair and dye and timelines.

If MontanaMan possibly last saw Andrea in 88/89 and she had jet black (dyed I presume) goth hair.........how would she have got to have possibly shoulder length, brown hair by April 1990 when our Andrea died?

I've had more hair colour catastrophes than I can count, and I know from experience the hardest colour to shift is pure black; you can't achieve it with anything but a permanent dye, or lift it out without the strongest bleach. Then you have to try and dye your hair back to its natural colour, but it always looks dyed, imo.

It's not mentioned that Andrea had dyed brown hair - how much could a person's hair have grown out in a year or so? Enough that no trace of the goth black remained?

this is one of the reasons i've been wondering what his timeline was for last seeing her and whether or not when he left seattle she was active in the scene. you articulated it much better!

 

[momtolil]

List of questions that might be known but not included in the reports:
Length of hair ?
Photos of ring and stone?
Pic or more detailed description of clothing? ( short tight dress? Long shift?)
Witness statement about hitching... Did he happen to mention coming from the north or south, we're they picked up together? If so, where? Or where was he picked up?
Motel key, any research done on that? Speculations at the time?
Clothing the witnesses saw her in? ( in regards to what was already hers)
Was she checked for previous pregnancy?
Any other unmentioned physical characteristics? Like attached ear lobes, piercings, etc.
just trying to think of ANYTHING that might provide another clue to jump from. I think the dental work is a really solid lead, but have NO clue how to start to research that.

I am going to do some more searching this weekend.

Oh, Montanaman, i had a thought. Did you post a reply on that city beat website asking about big mouth andrea??? There may be someone on there that you are not in touch with who might know her last name or more info!!! Can't hurt, right?

I'm no expert, but I have been reading this sight and looking at missing persons files long enough to realize that every police agency is different when it comes to the unidentified. I don't know why but it seems that some gather a lot of information such as jewlery, clothing, pictures and some dont do much at all. Or if they do they do not release it to the public.

I'm sure they did a lot and it sounds like the detective on the case worked hard and followed several leads. But it seems they could have photographed clothing and belongings as well. I know some do.

Can anyone contact the present detective on the case to answer more questions?

I know that from being form the area, we don't think we have had many UIds and homicides.

Just my uneducated opinion.

 

[deca]

CarlK- Andrea's nose seems very "turned up" (I don't know the technical term). Do you think that is pretty accurate or could that have been slightly more accented by the position the photo was taken?

I have 3-4 MP on my radar that look similar to Andrea and have similar stats- but the nose seems like a big stumbling block so I wanted to get your take on it.
Here is an example:
MP # 6308

Do you think the nose needs to be much more "turned up"?

I don't know a better way of describing her nose--- kids might call it "piggy"--but I was trying to find a nicer way of phrasing it.
My other question: Do you think Andrea's hair could have been curly? I have found a couple of MPs who are biracial that look very similar but they have tight curls. I would assume the ME/Coroner would notice if her hair had been relaxed or straightened?

 

[sluethermac]

can we actually see what she looks like to compare to other MP

 

[zwiebel]

sluethermac, if you mean can we see the actual photo of Andrea, CarlK has it but has been asked not to show it.

 

[sluethermac]

Can't you post links that are option with warnings or am I wrong?

 

[EmmaliLucia]

I keep thinking, If Andrea was a street kid then Andrea might not be her name.

If it was her street name then the only thing I can think of is it might be a dear friend or relative that had passed (For example, I had three street names, two were just completely made up {Kittie and Bunny} but one was the name of my paternal grandmother who had survived the Holocaust).

It's also my middle name, so maybe we should look for someone who has Andrea as a middle name?

What do you guys think?

 

[deca]

I keep thinking, If Andrea was a street kid then Andrea might not be her name.

If it was her street name then the only thing I can think of is it might be a dear friend or relative that had passed (For example, I had three street names, two were just completely made up {Kittie and Bunny} but one was the name of my paternal grandmother who had survived the Holocaust).

It's also my middle name, so maybe we should look for someone who has Andrea as a middle name?

What do you guys think?

I have been checking out middle names for Andrea with no likely matches FWIW. Like you suppose, I think it is likely that it is a street name or she perhaps was never reported missing.

 

[Roselvr]

can we actually see what she looks like to compare to other MP

These are as close to photos of her as we're going to get. Best suggestion if you're going to follow the case is to go through the post & each post that you want to "save"; right click quote; then open in new window or tab. Do this for each one; then click a post with your name; select send a private message to sluethermac. In the subject line; type the post title. Before you start pasting each quote in; put the Doe & NamUs links at the top. You can also add a link to page 1 of the thread

When you read the PM; if you click the little arrow next to the person's name on the quote; it opens up back to where the post was saved from.

I can see why you say that, but in the postmortem photo, she doesn't look as Hispanic. I've done several revisions to try to de-emphasize the ethnic look. Her eyes are closed in the photo, I can tell from the flesh above and below her eyes the basic shape of her eyes, and I think I have her eye-shape pretty close, but it still comes out looking more Hispanic than I envision.

I did one more revision to give her eyes a slight bit more backward slant, which might help.

Here's another version of her with shorter hair. In the postmortem photo, you can't tell how long her hair is. It might be shorter (like shown here), but you can't really tell. My previous version with longer hair was based on the other recons.

 

[Roselvr]

I have been checking out middle names for Andrea with no likely matches FWIW. Like you suppose, I think it is likely that it is a street name or she perhaps was never reported missing.

Or her info hasn't been added to any online sites

 

[CarlK90245]

CarlK- Andrea's nose seems very "turned up" (I don't know the technical term). Do you think that is pretty accurate or could that have been slightly more accented by the position the photo was taken?

The camera angle is pretty direct (in a vertical sense). The view of her face isn't taken from a low angle, so there is no exaggerated view of her nostrils. Her nose really does turn upward like that. She has much more of a pug-nose than most pug nosed people. With a neutral forward head tilt, you can see her nostrils pretty clearly.

I have 3-4 MP on my radar that look similar to Andrea and have similar stats- but the nose seems like a big stumbling block so I wanted to get your take on it.
Here is an example:
MP # 6308

Do you think the nose needs to be much more "turned up"?

Yes, Jane Doe's nose is much more turned up than Angelica's is.

I don't know a better way of describing her nose--- kids might call it "piggy"--but I was trying to find a nicer way of phrasing it.

The commonly known term is "pug-nose".

My other question: Do you think Andrea's hair could have been curly? I have found a couple of MPs who are biracial that look very similar but they have tight curls. I would assume the ME/Coroner would notice if her hair had been relaxed or straightened?

It appears to be slightly curly, but not tightly curled.

 

[CarlK90245]

Can't you post links that are option with warnings or am I wrong?

Normally, we can show postmortem photos if they posted as a link (with a graphic content warning), and not in open view.

But in this instance, I've been asked by the person who showed me the photo not to show it to the public.

The reconstruction is a pretty close representation of how she looked (although her hairstyle is somewhat of a guess, and her eyes may not be exact). I re-touched out the laceration on her forehead, raised the corners of her mouth, and lowered her eyebrows (because the eyebrows of the deceased tend to raise up). I also gave her a more lifelike skin tone, and made a few minor adjustments, but most of what you see is from the actual photo.

 

[MrsTigglesworth]

Is anyone interested in making a FB page? If not; I'll start it if no one minds.

Q
Go for it! I'll help spread to relevant groups, too...

 

[EmmaliLucia]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2463dffl.html


She has a similar face.

 

[zwiebel]

A couple of days back I found a missing goth girl with big black hair who looked like our Andrea. Something definitely ruled her out, so I didn't save the details. Now I am just kicking myself for not posting her pic for MontanaMan to see. I had a stupid moment. I'll have to see if I can refind her.

Has anybody else encountered the same thing I have, that it seems to be mostly young children who have that short, turned-up type nose like Andrea's?

 

[Babyslims]

I searched but did not see Tammy Mahoney mentioned. Some of the stats are off but I think the picture that is in color resembles this jane doe. The investigators seem pretty confident she was murdered but I thought I would toss this out there anyways

http://doenetwork.org/cases/1026dfny.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mahoney_tammy.html
Tammy Mahoney 19, Msg 05/08/1991, Oneida NY - Help Find The Missing

 

[zwiebel]

Tammy was on my maybe list, butI didn't post because she had pierced ears and green eyes. There's other pics at this link. The nose looks spot on in the young pic.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mahoney_tammy.html

 

[rosesfromangels]

To answer one of your questions: Here is a close-up of her right ear.

Carl - That's a pretty distinctive looking ear. For a supposed punker, I find it incongruent that she didn't have a least one piercing in the ear. The lack of piercing almost suggests a very strict upbringing, perhaps Mormon or catholic.

Do we know anything more about what she told the family she stayed with the night before she passed on? There must be some strong clues from that conversation. Something that hasn't been fully explored?

 

[Babyslims]

Tammy was on my maybe list, butI didn't post because she had pierced ears and green eyes. There's other pics at this link. The nose looks spot on in the young pic.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/mahoney_tammy.html

I wasn't going to post it either too many reasons why it probably isn't Tammy but this one picture that is showing Tammys ear looks like it has a unique shape like this Jane Does.

link Tammy Mahoney 19, Msg 05/08/1991, Oneida NY - Help Find The Missing that has her ear visible

 

[zwiebel]

The lobe of our Andrea's ear looks distinctive to me too - it appears to jut out a little, whereas the rest of her ear's close to her head. And it looks bulbous, swollen even. There is no sign of injury though and I guess it can't be swollen from the accident as Andrea would have died instantly, I would think?

I have looked closely, but I just can't see any sign of a piercing, or even a hole that might have healed. I had a second piercing in one ear years ago, and only wore an earring for a short time. I can't get an earring in there now at all, but the partially healed hole is still clearly visible on the surface of the skin after all this time.