CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

[mrjitty]

Chase would NOT be paying back the $19,000 if it involved material expenditures.

RSBM

It doesn't really matter because the defense has not made that argument. They say Chase was never paid the 19K

In reality, Chase acknowledges he agreed to repay Joey all 19K

If the defence wants to say it is 19K less expenses, they'd have to acknowledge that Chase is holding the 19K and Chase would have to testify.

This is why we shouldn't start offering exculpatory justifications for the defence when the defence itself won't plead to it

 

[travelbug]

I may be a little off topic from what's being discussed...but this case really reminds me of the Scott Peterson/Laci Peterson case. Laci & Conner's bodies washed up right where Scott went "fishing." The McStay bodies were found buried right where Chase Merritt's phone pinged. You can't have a better "smoking gun" than that. That's the main reason I'm convinced of his guilt. 100%

I'm curious about the DNA swab they took from CM's brother, didn't he live really close to the gravesite?

 

[mrjitty]

The 14K was a chargeback on Paypal, it has nothing to do with supplies, it was the 50% deposit on the fountain that the company paid before the fountain was even started. Months later, it was charged back and it came out of Joey's PayPal account if I understand it correctly (sucked out of his account).

So it was 19K + 14,480= 33,480 ... he actually says he "lost $33,800"

JMO

Joey is correct that in terms of his cash position he was down 33K

But on the project balance, he only lost 19K cash

 

[mrjitty]

I am almost positive Joseph told Laurel to pay the install fee directly to Chase. It must have been in the email chain because I don’t know where else I would have seen it.

Indeed he did.

 

[missy1974]

So you're saying that none of the original $14,480 was paid out for materials? Okay....it doesn't make sense in a business sort of way. Usually deposits are used for material expenses and labor but maybe Joey used a different type of business model?
I know I never used that type of reasoning in any business I ran, nor my husband, but maybe Joey wasn't that "business savvy".

What I'm saying is that once Joey got that deposit, Chase was paid the 19,000 to do the fountain,we can debate whether Joey paid for supplies and the balance was paid to Chase or whatever, but in Joey's own words he was paid 19K ... there is absolutely no mention by Joey that he on top of the 19k paid for the materials and supplies. Later, the company did a chargeback and they took the deposit back out of Joey's account. So he was out 19K + the deposit they took back of 14,480.

I don't know any other way of saying this, so I will leave it at that LOL

 

[katydid23]

BBM. Honestly, I just don't think that the phone pings near the graves are that big of a deal. Sometimes, when I'm stressed out, I like to take a nice long drive to clear my head. I can totally see Chase, after a long exhausting week at work, just wanting to take a drive in the desert to relax. Maybe while playing some country music, with the window rolled down, wind blowing through his hair. A cold drink to sip on. I mean, there's no way to prove that if he did drive in the vicinity of the graves, that it had anything to do with the murders. We don't even know exactly what day the family was killed, or what day they were buried for that matter! IMO.

But didn’t he deny driving around out there?

 

[katydid23]

It is probably part of the 19K that went to Chase. Because otherwise joey would be out another 14K LOL It's pretty simple math IMO

Does anyone here truly believe that Chase go 65% of the cost of the fountain and didn't have to pay for the supplies, whether it was Joey fronting the cost or not? So Joey made 35% minus the cost of making the fountain? That would be a ridiculous business model, Joey was naive IMO but not that naive.

How did Chase come up with the thousands of dollars to buy those supplies?

 

[missy1974]

According to this email by JM to CM what was the $8,800 Levine?
What was that for, & owed to Joey?
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/joey-email-png.175778/

There has been very little mentioned about this in the trial. I was wondering if it was the 'insurance' fountain that Joey was waiting for a cheque on, but that is just speculation and no way to know right now. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I was having a "moment" LOL totally read that as JM because CM never had money in his account hahaha

Exactly. So how would he purchase the supplies needed for s 32 thousand dollar fountain?

 

[Force Ten]

I'm curious about the DNA swab they took from CM's brother, didn't he live really close to the gravesite?

I am too and have been the second it hit the internet. We're almost at the end of March now. The defense said the graves site DNA profiles would be back a few days after the trial started as well. These events have to be related. But we are still in the early stage of the defense's case.

 

[Karinna]

What I'm saying is that once Joey got that deposit, Chase was paid the 19,000 to do the fountain,we can debate whether Joey paid for supplies and the balance was paid to Chase or whatever, but in Joey's own words he was paid 19K ... there is absolutely no mention by Joey that he on top of the 19k paid for the materials and supplies. Later, the company did a chargeback and they took the deposit back out of Joey's account. So he was out 19K + the deposit they took back of 14,480.

I don't know any other way of saying this, so I will leave it at that LOL

All i know is the email Joey sent Merritt on the 1st. of Feb. stating CM owed Joey $42, 845, and that email was 3 days before the McStay family were murdered.
I gather that email is in evidence and will be what the Jury sees?

 

[Karinna]

I am too and have been the second it hit the internet. We're almost at the end of March now. The defense said the graves site DNA profiles would be back a few days after the trial started as well. These events have to be related. But we are still in the early stage of the defense's case.

If they took BM's DNA wouldn't they have been able to match that to the 3 unknown profiles that have been mentioned in the case?

 

[missy1974]

From January 5th before the trial started it was already a non-issue apparently.

Jurors will hear tape of McStay murder defendant being quizzed by detectives – Press Enterprise

One of Merritt’s attorneys, Rajan Maline, had requested the hearing Friday to ask the judge to unseal an affidavit written to obtain a search warrant. In this case, the search was of the mouth of Merritt’s brother Bennett, in which investigators obtained a DNA swab. Examining the affidavit Friday would have given Maline time to react to its contents ahead of the trial and gain insight into the prosecution’s case. But before Smith could make a ruling, Maline withdrew his motion.

That’s because he said prosecutors told him that information that gave detectives probable cause to search Bennett Merritt came from a confidential informant who was not going to testify during the trial.

 

[mrjitty]

I think so too. Especially considering it was the beginning of the month and his rent was due. Was it $2,500.? $3,000?

Remember, according to McGyver, Chase was at JM's on 1/31 and 2/2. My guess is....Chase was desperate and trying to get rent/food money from Joey. So CM goes to Joey's on 1/31 to ask for money. But, instead of handing over a couple of thousand like he's probably done many times in the past, JM might have said something like "let me go over the books tonight and see where we're at".

The next day, on 2/1 JM sends CM the email showing that Chase owed $42,845.00.

Still desperate and needing money, Chase decides to try again and goes back to Joey's on 2/2. This is when, IMO, Joey gives Chase the check for $200. Not $2,000..only $200.

This is the turning point IMO, I think Chase might have realized he wasn't going to be able to manipulate Joey anymore and their collaboration was coming to an end.

Chase goes home, prints the check for $2,495. Goes to Union Bank and cashes it.

There is no going back now. All MOO!

I think you are correct.

He created and deleted his first cheque within 45 mins of getting that email.

Also he tried to gaslight about the 26K from SA and PM jobs bringing the debt under control. It only would have reduced the debt to 20k and ONLY IF Joey had withheld all that money

So again I am wondering if Joey was planning to withhold large payments to Chase and apply them to the debt.

 

[Force Ten]

If they took BM's DNA wouldn't they have been able to match that to the 3 unknown profiles that have been mentioned in the case?

It's very time consuming. Imo if Bennett's was linked, he would have been arrested by now.

 

[A lucas]

I just realized something...

Part of C. Jarvis's testimony:

“And on the Fourth of February, do you recall, did Chase go to work that day?” Maline asked.
“Yes,” said Jarvis.
“Do you know what Joseph did that day or whether he saw Joseph that day?” Maline asked.
“He went to work in the morning and he said he was on his way to meet Joseph for lunch and pick up checks,” Catherine Jarvis said.

He went to work in the morning ...but on his way to meet Joey for lunch? Doesn't make sense.

But what I find a little odd is...

Chase worked at MSM in Azusa... Not in RC. If Chase was at work on the 4th, how come they didn't meet somewhere in Azusa?

Something is a little off. MOO

Also didn’t I read somewhere that his phone didn’t move and pinged his home cell phone towers until his last call to JM at 5:28pm? Correct me if I’m wrong though?

 

[Tortoise]

I would have to check testimony, but I think Chase's phone did ping outside of RC that morning. Carmen testified that he came and went lots. Not sure what's odd about this lol

Yes his phone connected in the Norco/Riverside area travelling northbound on the i-15 at around 9.40 am, then he reached his home towers and his phone connected there all day until 5.48 pm.

 

[Tortoise]

I know some of Merritt’s withdrawals were an exhibit, but were we able to see what his bank balance might have been during that first week of February? Since the DA is intimating the motive was money, if CM had substantial money in the bank, you would think his defense would point that out over and over again. It would be an interesting piece of the puzzle to get a glimpse of what his balance actually was around then.

It's one of my favourite visuals

click on image to enlarge


My other two favourites:

phone pings in desert:


and

click on link to open
Rob McMillan on Twitter

 

[Tortoise]

Good points. Presumption of innocence until all evidence (from both sides) is presented in full and the jury comes to a decision. That’s what our justice system is all about.

If we were on the jury then of course, but that's not the standard we are held to here on the WS threads, and neither do we have any say in conviction or acquittal.

 

[mrjitty]

If we were on the jury then of course, but that's not the standard we are held to here on the WS threads, and neither do we have any say in conviction or acquittal.

Presumption of innocence only means that the burden of proof is on the prosecution - it doesn't mean Jurors have to start out assuming innocence.

A juror is allowed to decide he is guilty at any point in the trial. The jury is a blackbox and we can't look inside.

As for the wider application, it is often overlooked that the State is in fact assuming guilt and is telling us they believe Chase is guilty to BARD standard

So citizens do not need to presume innocence either. Presumption of innocence has no application outside the Court House.

There are many examples of this - e.g. where a employee is charged with rape, they might be suspended or even fired before the trial, based on evidence to hand and risk to colleagues.