CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

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  • #981
ahhhh and a glimmer of hope....

Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson 3m3 minutes ago
Sorry, I'm out of town visiting my grandson :-) . I'm sending the recordings to our person that uploads them now.

I was just going to go to L&C chat to ask about it and thought I would check twitter first!
 
  • #982
What is the importance of the futon cover or not anyway? JM was wrapped in some type of woven white blanket material according to the recovery efforts. I am fairly certain it came from the McStay home, and even if it didn't there were other things missing from the home, and some articles found in the graves. Was the futon cover or not to try and prove the family were killed in the home?

It was a way to definitively tie it to the home.... there is no certainty that the blanket came from the home, IF the futon cover was indeed missing and found in the graves it would make it more certain, but IMO it's not the futon cover after listening to the testimony that I have. It has come up in Smith's testimony, Steer's testimony, Mike's, McG's, Susan's, I think even in the anthropologists and the CSI tech that took the stand, I can't even point you to just one person's testimony to hear it, it's cumulative IMO
 
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  • #983
I think most of us long-timers remember Rick Baker and all his drama. However, I recently was looking in his book to see if he had photocopies of any interest to some of our discussions. I did find a few interesting snippets. Remember this "book" was written before the bodies were found and he did spend about a year "researching" - traveling to Fallbrook, etc.

Anyway, I found these snippets interesting:

"Joseph’s father, Patrick, claims that law enforcement investigators told him Joseph bought gas near his home at about 4:30 p.m. and that he paid for a prescription for the kids, Amoxicillin, at a local pharmacy at about the same time." If this is true, it tends to confirm that Joey actually made it home - something I've had trouble with.

Here's another interesting snip P 87:

"Had the sheriff ’s department subpoenaed the neighbor’s home security videotapes, they may have been able to identify the white truck and white Toyota SUV that were both reportedly parked in their driveway in the days right after the family had disappeared. One neighbor told me that he had seen a “white truck with business letters on the side” parked in their driveway."

FWIW!
 
  • #984
screen-shot-2019-03-06-at-9.02.48-am.png



screen-shot-2019-03-06-at-9.05.38-am.png


I think there might be some confusion as to what was actually in the laundry room. Looks to me like it could be the missing pillow from the futon.

MOO

There was a photo showing what was in the washer, I think that is what they were wondering was the futon cover?

IMO if a cushion was found in the laundry room.. doesn't it seem likely that she was maybe washing both the cushion and the futon cover for some reason? Maybe one of the kids spilled a drink or something? I've had little kids (and big ones lol)... and I've had dogs/puppies.... unfortunately, the furniture can take a beating lol
 
  • #985
It was a way to definitively tie it to the home.... there is no certainty that the blanket came from the home, IF the futon cover was indeed missing and found in the graves it would make it more certain, but IMO it's not the futon cover after listening to the testimony that I have had. It has come up in Smith's testimony, Steer's testimony, Mike's, McG's, Susan's, I think even in the anthropologists and the CSI tech that took the stand, I can't even point you to just one person's testimony to hear it, it's cumulative IMO
Wasn't there also a towel with a flower/s on it that came from the home as well? And a bath mat?
 
  • #986
I think most of us long-timers remember Rick Baker and all his drama. However, I recently was looking in his book to see if he had photocopies of any interest to some of our discussions. I did find a few interesting snippets. Remember this "book" was written before the bodies were found and he did spend about a year "researching" - traveling to Fallbrook, etc.

Anyway, I found these snippets interesting:

"Joseph’s father, Patrick, claims that law enforcement investigators told him Joseph bought gas near his home at about 4:30 p.m. and that he paid for a prescription for the kids, Amoxicillin, at a local pharmacy at about the same time." If this is true, it tends to confirm that Joey actually made it home - something I've had trouble with.

Here's another interesting snip P 87:

"Had the sheriff ’s department subpoenaed the neighbor’s home security videotapes, they may have been able to identify the white truck and white Toyota SUV that were both reportedly parked in their driveway in the days right after the family had disappeared. One neighbor told me that he had seen a “white truck with business letters on the side” parked in their driveway."

FWIW!

I must reply to this for Patrick. I have spoke with him a number of times and he has refuted this in public interviews and comments in many places over and over many times.

This needs to be clarified as nothing but junk from a book of fiction and nothing else. This person and his book are a complete fraud and there are only small bits of truth that the writer has copied from others and added his lies and unfounded claims.

Patrick has NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING about Joey stopping anywhere or buying gas or a prescription or anything else on his way home on the 4th. Patrick has always said he hasn't seen any proof (credit or debit card or receipt for any purchase) or anything else and that Joey even made it home on the 4th of February 2010.

It's time to stop all the bad information and believing all the charlatans that are spreading lies and half truths and only using snippets or partial statements or quotes that are used for the reason to only mislead.
 
  • #987
It was a way to definitively tie it to the home.... there is no certainty that the blanket came from the home, IF the futon cover was indeed missing and found in the graves it would make it more certain, but IMO it's not the futon cover after listening to the testimony that I have. It has come up in Smith's testimony, Steer's testimony, Mike's, McG's, Susan's, I think even in the anthropologists and the CSI tech that took the stand, I can't even point you to just one person's testimony to hear it, it's cumulative IMO


Thank You :)

And we all know you know your stuff as well.
 
  • #988
What are some of the examples of what you'd consider to be hard evidence that the McStays were not murdered by their next door neighbours?

It's easy to do this - its wild speculation.

We've had two detectives testify that DK was eliminated from inquiries - so prima facie, he didn't do it.

The evidential onus is on the defence to introduce even one piece of evidence that implicates DK in the murders.

If and when they do that, we can discuss State rebuttal.
If a neighbor had threatened JM, as DK had done, then it certainly wouldn't be "wild speculation" to consider that neighbor a potential suspect.
 
  • #989
I must reply to this for Patrick. I have spoke with him a number of times and he has refuted this in public interviews and comments in many places over and over many times.

This needs to be clarified as nothing but junk from a book of fiction and nothing else. This person and his book are a complete fraud and there are only small bits of truth that the writer has copied from others and added his lies and unfounded claims.

Patrick has NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING about Joey stopping anywhere or buying gas or a prescription or anything else on his way home on the 4th. Patrick has always said he hasn't seen any proof (credit or debit card or receipt for any purchase) or anything else and that Joey even made it home on the 4th of February 2010.

It's time to stop all the bad information and believing all the charlatans that are spreading lies and half truths and only using snippets or partial statements or quotes that are used for the reason to only mislead.

I have seen zero evidence that Joey made it home that day.

The fact he ignored Summer’s phone calls but listened to voicemails on the way home and didn’t ring her back. He also listened to previous voicemails earlier in the day which to me points to somebody else having the phone and making sure nothing incriminating had been left on the phone.


IMO
 
  • #990
I must reply to this for Patrick. I have spoke with him a number of times and he has refuted this in public interviews and comments in many places over and over many times.

This needs to be clarified as nothing but junk from a book of fiction and nothing else. This person and his book are a complete fraud and there are only small bits of truth that the writer has copied from others and added his lies and unfounded claims.

Patrick has NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING about Joey stopping anywhere or buying gas or a prescription or anything else on his way home on the 4th. Patrick has always said he hasn't seen any proof (credit or debit card or receipt for any purchase) or anything else and that Joey even made it home on the 4th of February 2010.

It's time to stop all the bad information and believing all the charlatans that are spreading lies and half truths and only using snippets or partial statements or quotes that are used for the reason to only mislead.
Thankyou for clarifying RB's nonsense.
 
  • #991
Wasn't there also a towel with a flower/s on it that came from the home as well? And a bath mat?

IIRC they couldn't match the towel with the flower to any other in the photo's of the home, unfortunately, that is all they had to go by. The one bathroom didn't have a bath mat, IIRC it was the downstairs bathroom by Joey's office, so what does that mean? Does it mean that that it's "missing"? or does it mean they just didn't have one in there? The upstairs bathrooms didn't have toilet seat covers, does that mean they are missing? Also, IIRC they didn't find a bath mat in the graves.

They did find the little hooded towel that they were able to match with photo's of one or both of the boys from when they were little. But I don't know that that towel was in the home at the time, maybe it was in the Trooper? I have similar hooded towels that I got when my boys were babies, so it's been almost 20 years, they were great for the beach and I still have them and keep them in my truck for my dogs when we are at the lake. Some of the items found in the trooper remind me of things that I would and probably still do have in my truck, be prepared for anything when you have kids and animals and even a sick husband, but JMO.
 
  • #992
If a neighbor had threatened JM, as DK had done, then it certainly wouldn't be "wild speculation" to consider that neighbor a potential suspect.

In that IM thread that took place a year before the family disappeared, DK never threatened Joey with violence.

MOO
 
  • #993
Thank You :)

And we all know you know your stuff as well.
Your welcome! I wish there was one person's testimony that we could point to and say "it's not the futon cover", but we can't (not yet) And there has been no mention of it being a blanket from their home from the prosecution because IMO they want the jury to believe it was the futon cover.
 
  • #994
I have seen zero evidence that Joey made it home that day.

The fact he ignored Summer’s phone calls but listened to voicemails on the way home and didn’t ring her back. He also listened to previous voicemails earlier in the day which to me points to somebody else having the phone and making sure nothing incriminating had been left on the phone.


IMO

So in this scenario, if you believe it's Chase, how do you explain Chase's phone connecting in RC still that afternoon?

I'm still unsure about whether he made it home... whether it happened in the home... whether they were lured out of the home... so many questions still *sigh*
 
  • #995
screen-shot-2019-03-06-at-9.02.48-am.png



screen-shot-2019-03-06-at-9.05.38-am.png


I think there might be some confusion as to what was actually in the laundry room. Looks to me like it could be the missing pillow from the futon.

MOO
And there were also these large cushion type items which Denys Williams described as sponge covered with quilt batting in an upstairs bedroom, which look to be missing their covers.

quilt batting.png
 
  • #996
Your welcome! I wish there was one person's testimony that we could point to and say "it's not the futon cover", but we can't (not yet) And there has been no mention of it being a blanket from their home from the prosecution because IMO they want the jury to believe it was the futon cover.

Here's the thing IMO, on day 31 part 1 at approx. 51:00 mark, Susan testified that Cathy Sanchez did not try to put the cover on the futon. She also testified that she never saw the futon cover. It's just MOO but if the futon cover was in the house, SB probably would have seen it or come across it.
I'm not saying that is what Joey was wrapped in.....
JMO
 
  • #997
IIRC they couldn't match the towel with the flower to any other in the photo's of the home, unfortunately, that is all they had to go by. The one bathroom didn't have a bath mat, IIRC it was the downstairs bathroom by Joey's office, so what does that mean? Does it mean that that it's "missing"? or does it mean they just didn't have one in there? The upstairs bathrooms didn't have toilet seat covers, does that mean they are missing? Also, IIRC they didn't find a bath mat in the graves.

They did find the little hooded towel that they were able to match with photo's of one or both of the boys from when they were little. But I don't know that that towel was in the home at the time, maybe it was in the Trooper? I have similar hooded towels that I got when my boys were babies, so it's been almost 20 years, they were great for the beach and I still have them and keep them in my truck for my dogs when we are at the lake. Some of the items found in the trooper remind me of things that I would and probably still do have in my truck, be prepared for anything when you have kids and animals and even a sick husband, but JMO.
Part 2 Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary
2 Q Did you find all of the stuff that we've just talked
3 about being from the house, did you find any evidence from the
4 graves or gravesites that was consistent to those items we've
5 just talked about?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Can you please itemize those for us?
8 A In the grave itself there was like a black nose, eyes and
9 a whisker and some padding consistent with the bathrobe that was
10 depicted in the picture with Joseph, Jr.
11 In the gravesite there was a black backpack containing
12 what was a paintbrush and looked like, maybe, like a small pick
13 or hand garden tool. These items were depicted in a photograph
14 of Gianni wearing a similar black backpack and Joseph, Jr.,
15 posing, holding the same type paintbrush.
16 Joseph McStay was wrapped in a tannish woven blanket or
17 article of cloth that had seams on it, which appeared to be
18 consistent with the cover from the futon that was missing at the
19 time they went missing, the family went missing.
20 There was a blue painter's tape that was in the white
21 shop towel, in the grave. That white shop towel was consistent
22 with the roll of shop towels that was found in the garage.
23 There was also another white towel which had flower
24 imprints on it and was consistent with what would be a typical
25 bath towel that would be found in a house. However, there was
26 no other in towels found in the McStay house. There was nothing
27 to compare it to. They were all gone.
28 Q Did you find any white terry-type material consistent
53
1 with a bath mat?
2 A Yeah, there was some small patches of white terry cloth
3 material consistent with either a bath mat, because photographs
4 depicting the McStay house showed that there was a toilet cover,
5 the typical kind that's sold in, like, sets, where you have a
6 floor mat and another rug in front of a shower. However the
7 floor mat and the rug for the shower was gone, and only the
8 cover for the toilet seat was there. And also it would be
9 consistent with the terry cloth that was depicted as missing off
10 of one of the hooks.
11 Q In the excavation of the gravesites, did you notice
12 whether any type of footwear, shoes or sandals, anything of such
13 were found in the excavation process?
14 A None were found.
 
  • #998
So in this scenario, if you believe it's Chase, how do you explain Chase's phone connecting in RC still that afternoon?

I'm still unsure about whether he made it home... whether it happened in the home... whether they were lured out of the home... so many questions still *sigh*

Somebody else had Chase’s phone like a “wife” or even a brother. I just find it strange we have never seen proof of Joey being alive after Lunch and then throw in the fact Chase wants us to believe they had lunch together makes me question it.

MOO
 
  • #999
I thought they found painters tape in the grave??? Wouldn't that tie the murders to the home?
 
  • #1,000
I must reply to this for Patrick. I have spoke with him a number of times and he has refuted this in public interviews and comments in many places over and over many times.

This needs to be clarified as nothing but junk from a book of fiction and nothing else. This person and his book are a complete fraud and there are only small bits of truth that the writer has copied from others and added his lies and unfounded claims.

Patrick has NEVER SAID ANY SUCH THING about Joey stopping anywhere or buying gas or a prescription or anything else on his way home on the 4th. Patrick has always said he hasn't seen any proof (credit or debit card or receipt for any purchase) or anything else and that Joey even made it home on the 4th of February 2010.

It's time to stop all the bad information and believing all the charlatans that are spreading lies and half truths and only using snippets or partial statements or quotes that are used for the reason to only mislead.
The whole book was a fabrication.
 
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