CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[Auntie Cipation]

I am a regular hiker. Except for people who are casual park users who don’t hike but unwittingly decide to try a trail, the trails around me are usually empty of regular hikers during the peak heat times of day. By around 11:00 am there are usually no hikers going up hills unless there’s shade.

These people started their hike at around 8:00 am. If they did the whole loop wouldn’t they have been done before any storm cells hit them? Unless they spent several hours at the river, which, as someone pointed out, is not typical of what the husband recorded on Alltrails?

I disagree that this was a hike in their neighborhood. They had to drive to it and the loop does not appear surrounded by homes. Correct me if I’m wrong. It’s described as a “remote trail”.

I think OP was referring to it as "their neighborhood" in the sense that the elevation/oxygen and heat wave were within their acclimatization.

Which I agree with, except to say that this summer's heat has been IMO more extreme than usual (we'll be redefining the very concept of 'usual' soon IMO but I digress).

So in the type of acclimatizing that only takes a few days or a week, yes they would have been acclimatized, but in a longer term sense, no. My area had a full month of over 100* days this summer, but I only felt more and more drained by it, not acclimatized in any way that restored my energy level. MOO

If they did get hit by lightning, could the mom have been thrown by the force?

I don't know the answer to this, especially while still being the category of lightning that leaves no marks or evidence on the body, but it seems like that would have at least left her with bruises the autopsy would have seen. MOO

 

[MaryG12]

Respectfully, I don't think switchbacks make hiking easier. They are designed to have lower impact on the environment & help trail users cope better with the terrain by having an established path that is not just one way. "Easier" is very subjective.

RSBM

That they are - when we went to the Grand Canyon back in 2008 I first learned about this - and many trails descending to the bottom have switchbacks.

 

[RedHaus]

@Parsnip. Reposting my additions to your list with 'legal' searchables:

7. Accidental exposure to lethal pesticide or other toxin somewhere off piste that sadly caught up with them.

Search: Carbofuran, Pesticides, Fetanyl, Insecticides, Ethylene Glycol

8. Third party involvement in such a way that murder is not apparent to LE.

Search: Murder, Grow Ops, Gunpoint, Fowl Play

9. Different cause of death for each or one or more family members (e.g. dog and infant) which led to others' death.

Search: Search terms in #1-8 (combo)

10. And in fairness to this case as a whole there are miscellaneous theories we can not speak of per WS TOS.

Search: Moderator Posts, TOS.

 

[Parsnip]

Thank you @RedHaus . I will add these. Because only one thread can be searched at a time (AFAIK), I’ll assemble a list after a few hours with any other additions with links to each thread for easy searching.

 

[MaryG12]

I do still think a ground lightning strike may well be a plausible theory but actually BECAUSE of the body positions.

If they were in an exposed position there's every chance they saw a lightning storm coming on the horizon, and knowing they were at risk, perhaps took steps to mitigate their chances of being struck. Ellen was found a distance away from her husband, baby, and dog. Did she distance herself because it is advised to spread out in a lightning storm? There's no way they could've spread out any further than being in two 'groups' because the baby and dog will have had to stay with one or the other of the parents.

Also, Jonathan was found in a seated position with their baby placed next to him. It's a common misconception that sitting down (or getting low to the ground) can help prevent a direct lightning strike. Maybe he had done this thinking it would help reduce the chance of them being struck, especially if his mass was potentially increased with the baby carrier on his back?

I understand that the way the bodies were found would likely rule out a direct hit from a lightning bolt - yes, a lightning bolt can knock a person a distance off their feet but definitely not as far as Ellen was found uphill away from the rest of the family - but maybe this was a ground lightning strike. Because ground current covers a much larger area than a direct strike by lightning, it is ground current lightning that causes more lightning deaths than any other type.

Maybe lightning struck the ground they were all on, resulting in them all being killed, and it was one of those rare occasions where there were no visible signs of the strike at all, either on the ground afterwards, or upon postmortem of the bodies?

This link explains the different types of lighting: Lightning Science: Five Ways Lightning Strikes People

MOO

I'm going with ground current myself - and such a strike of lightning would not leave any signs upon their bodies.

 

[MaryG12]

Lightning Science: Five Ways Lightning Strikes People

Because the ground current affects a much larger area than the other causes of lightning casualties, the ground current causes the most lightning deaths and injuries.

...........................

Does anyone know the directions they were found facing? And the direction of the possible lightning hit?

 

[UnderstandBlue]

There are a lot of sites that have historical lightning strike info, which is a fun rabbit hole. Here is just one for August 15th. America :: Archives :: Maps :: North America

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I am a regular hiker. Except for people who are casual park users who don’t hike but unwittingly decide to try a trail, the trails around me are usually empty of regular hikers during the peak heat times of day. By around 11:00 am there are usually no hikers going up hills unless there’s shade.

These people started their hike at around 8:00 am. If they did the whole loop wouldn’t they have been done before any storm cells hit them? Unless they spent several hours at the river, which, as someone pointed out, is not typical of what the husband recorded on Alltrails?

I disagree that this was a hike in their neighborhood. They had to drive to it and the loop does not appear surrounded by homes. Correct me if I’m wrong. It’s described as a “remote trail”.



If they did get hit by lightning, could the mom have been thrown by the force?

I've certainly heard of this happening before, but I'm not sure what has been documented or recorded officially in terms of a plausible distance that a person or an object has been thrown by the force of lightning.

My Godmother, who passed away in 2019, lost her mum and baby brother to a lightning strike in a field in Poland in the 1920s. She never really talked about it, but I wish now I'd learned more from her about it.

 

[MaryG12]

I've certainly heard of this happening before, but I'm not sure what has been documented or recorded officially in terms of a plausible distance that a person or an object has been thrown by the force of lightning.

My Godmother, who passed away in 2019, lost her mum and baby brother to a lightning strike in a field in Poland in the 1920s. She never really talked about it, but I wish now I'd learned more from her about it.

Very sorry about your loss. Makes me wonder if EC was thrown, given the distance she was from her husband on the trail.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Wouldn't they still be able to text even though the message won't go through? I'm surprised they wouldn't try to document what happened if they were held up because of illness. If they knew there was any chance they might not make it, they could have sent final messages to their loved ones.

Then, as soon as the cell phone was in an area with service, family members would get their messages.

But LE has made no mention of this so I'm assuming they never had the chance.

The sheriff has said that the cell phone was sent for analysis. It could have useful info like photos taken during the hike, any texts they attempted to send, and time stamps that would shed light on what happened and when. However, unlocking the phone might not be practical (too expensive) and a low priority since there is no evidence of a crime. Does seem like they could charge it and see if it sends any messages, which they might then be able to get with a subpoena. MOO.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Its the going downhill that’s super hard for me on non-switchback trials. Terrible on the knees and easy to slip!

I agree. If I had a choice, I'd always opt to walk uphill as opposed to downhill because of the toll on the knees, but I imagine Ellen and Jonathan were far fitter than I am.

That's the scary thing about this, it just goes to show that Mother Nature is so powerful it can even take the super fit and healthy.

 

[NSamuelle]

The sheriff has said that the cell phone was sent for analysis. It could have useful info like photos taken during the hike, any texts they attempted to send, and time stamps that would shed light on what happened and when. However, unlocking the phone might not be practical (too expensive) and a low priority since there is no evidence of a crime. Does seem like they could charge it and see if it sends any messages, which they might then be able to get with a subpoena. MOO.

The subpoena for the phone was granted on 8/24. It’s puzzling that they have not released any further info. Ellen, apparently, did not have a phone. Only Jonathan’s was found (front right pocket) and sent for analysis. I find that so odd. People take their phones everywhere!

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

The subpoena for the phone was granted on 8/24. It’s puzzling that they have not released any further info. Ellen, apparently, did not have a phone. Only Jonathan’s was found (front right pocket) and sent for analysis. I find that so odd. People take their phones everywhere!

That is VERY unusual that she didn't have a phone. There must be only a tiny fraction of women her age that don't own a mobile/cell phone. If they were maybe only relying on one phone as opposed to two and that one phone was out of battery then that makes it even more tragic.

 

[MsBetsy]

The sheriff has said that the cell phone was sent for analysis. It could have useful info like photos taken during the hike, any texts they attempted to send, and time stamps that would shed light on what happened and when. However, unlocking the phone might not be practical (too expensive) and a low priority since there is no evidence of a crime. Does seem like they could charge it and see if it sends any messages, which they might then be able to get with a subpoena. MOO.

Yes, I think they did get a warrant for the phone, as well as their computers.

 

[SpideySense]

There are a lot of sites that have historical lightning strike info, which is a fun rabbit hole. Here is just one for August 15th. America :: Archives :: Maps :: North America

Yes, it is a rabbit hole. If you look back on page 12 of this third thread, I posted some up close images of recorded strikes near the family. But these public websites are volunteer based, so they don’t necessarily capture all the strikes. I’m sure LE has more thorough data.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Thank you, my first instinct was that it would be the gradient that made the hike a difficult one, but I just couldn't seem to find any images that backed that up.

I appreciate the info and thanks for humouring my snakey-liony query

Just Google "Savage Lundy Trail". Click the map it shows, click Satellite view at lower left. You are looking at the switchbacks, drag it back and forth to appreciate how steep it is. Zoom in and take a close look at that treeless hellscape. Imagine toiling up that steep trail in temperatures over 100F/38C, with the sun broiling you. All that is what made it a difficult hike. Note that on a cool winter day it would just be a steep trail, no big deal for a regular hiker, but this was August. MOO.

 

[RedHaus]

The subpoena for the phone was granted on 8/24. It’s puzzling that they have not released any further info. Ellen, apparently, did not have a phone. Only Jonathan’s was found (front right pocket) and sent for analysis. I find that so odd. People take their phones everywhere!

Thanks @NSamuelle. I first presume that EC did have a phone with her but perhaps in their pack. And LE mentioning only JG's phone being found may not mean she did not have hers with her somewhere. Perhaps even, in a state of delirium or frustration EC could have thrown it into the brush and dust.

All that said, IF, IMO, EC did not have her phone, where was it? In the truck, at the home they were staying? At a place they visited before starting their hike - like a coffee shop maybe or perhaps one of their rental properties? Or maybe she'd accidentally dropped it while taking a bio break off trail?

Anyhow, I ponder these scenarios and wonder what each might tell LE about the "why" or "how" or "when" of this tragic event. When her phone was last used for instance could be telling.

Does anyone know or remember which parent posted to IG or FB early that fateful morning (8/15) the empty baby pack that was briefly visible to the public? If it was from EC's phone or not could perhaps tell LE something.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Just Google "Savage Lundy Trail". Click the map it shows, click Satellite view at lower left. You are looking at the switchbacks, drag it back and forth to appreciate how steep it is. Zoom in and take a close look at that treeless hellscape. Imagine toiling up that steep trail in temperatures over 100F/38C, with the sun broiling you. All that is what made it a difficult hike. Note that on a cool winter day it would just be a steep trail, no big deal for a regular hiker, but this was August. MOO.

Thank you, I'll definitely check that out now

 

[armchairagatha]

That is VERY unusual that she didn't have a phone. There must be only a tiny fraction of women her age that don't own a mobile/cell phone. If they were maybe only relying on one phone as opposed to two and that one phone was out of battery then that makes it even more tragic.

Not unusual for avid hikers doing a hard route. I know friends who like to travel as light as possible during backcountry hiking and a second cellphone would have been just an additional burden on the trail that day. They might have even known that they would probably get no signal.

 

[JerseyGirl]

This thread is full and will be closed. Please continue here:

CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4