CA CA - Kristen Modafferi, 18, San Francisco, 23 June 1997
- Thread starter Doyle
- Start date
Litlstar04
Member
My two previous issues with the Roberts Group theory were based on reading the blurbs about the group that were quoted on here previously. Once I had a chance to read a little more about them this morning, I found what you're referring to, Babs, that only some members are ever allowed to contact their families. The debt collector explanation for money left behind makes sense also. I wonder if her roommates were at all connected to this group and opened her mail to make sure she had no outstanding debts.
I'm still having a hard time, though, with the theory that she voluntarily walked away from her life. She was getting ready to start her class, which was the whole reason why she went to San Fran, plus she'd just started a new job. If she had fallen into the company of these people, don't you think that we'd begin to see their influence on her life, like maybe her not showing up for that first day of her new job? All of her plans and continued efforts to follow through on her plans to me do not sound like a person who will soon make the choice to walk away from everything.
I'm still having a hard time, though, with the theory that she voluntarily walked away from her life. She was getting ready to start her class, which was the whole reason why she went to San Fran, plus she'd just started a new job. If she had fallen into the company of these people, don't you think that we'd begin to see their influence on her life, like maybe her not showing up for that first day of her new job? All of her plans and continued efforts to follow through on her plans to me do not sound like a person who will soon make the choice to walk away from everything.
I've seen these Robert's Group people around LA over the years..I ran across this article..
http://web.insidevc.com/getlocal/moorpark/356464.shtml
I suppose vanishing into a cult is a possibility...I'm also still bothered by the roomates..one can't tell much by checking the internet for references I 'm still astonished that her parents let her do that..did they ever meet these people before she moved out there into their house?
http://web.insidevc.com/getlocal/moorpark/356464.shtml
I suppose vanishing into a cult is a possibility...I'm also still bothered by the roomates..one can't tell much by checking the internet for references I 'm still astonished that her parents let her do that..did they ever meet these people before she moved out there into their house?
I've known a lot of Objectivists and former Objectivists over the years..for one...they're all athiests certainly not candidates for the Roberts Group...and secondly I've never heard ANY of them even remotely interested in Nicaragua unless it was 20 years ago and they were backing the Contras.....New Zealand is a place they talk about fondly not Nicaragua..secondly it's not a philosphy that naturally extols art or music..it is a philosophy of reason..most of the O'ists I've met have been scientists or economistsor deeply into Philosophy. And yes, Ayn Rand is the founder of Objectivist Theory.Litlstar04 said:
rachel
Inactive
Regarding the Kristen theories:
1) Like I said before, I think that if anyone wanted to kill Kristen, they'd have to know what they're doing to do such a good job of covering their tracks. Ie-Jon Onuma- as Dennis said on his website, "he's no choir boy." But that's a far cry from murder. BUT, then how come he screamed at someone, "Now you'll know what happened to KM?" And how come those pages were missing from Jill's diary/date book? And Dennis says that Jill is lying about SOMETHING, we just don't know what... So we have three unanswered questions in regard to them, although that doesn't mean they're guilty.
2) Nicaruaga. 2 problems with this theory. There is no record of her travelling with the National Passport Service (Dennis and the Mods checked). Without a passport, how could she have traveled. It's a lot of borders to have to cross without getting caught. The other problem is that no one else from Peace Corp or anyone else at that time also remembers her. I agree with Babcat, I also saw red flags when I read that Randall was "falling in love" with a kid young enough to his own!
3)Sutro Baths. I have a question for Suladog: Are there other people who have been lost at Sutro Baths and their bodies have not been found? If so, this could be a possibility. Here at websleuths, we've always been under the assumption that if something happened to her at the baths, then her body would have been found. Perhaps we're wrong.
4) A cult. I agree with everyone else, that a cult is no more bizarre than the Nicaruagua theory, if anything, more probable. In high school, the PTA once organized a "cult deprogrammer" to come speak to us one day. He showed us a movie, called "Ticket to Heaven," about a boy who got involved with the Moonies. He spoke to us about who and how cults target, how to protects ourselves, etc...There are "professionals" who do this type of thing- they are hired by parents to get the kids out. Although we have no idea if this is a possibility or not, it might be worthwhile for the Mods to maybe set up an appointment with one of these guys, and they can discuss Kristen, and see if her "profile" and circumstances fit. I imagine that in a city like San Fran, the police dept. has cult experts that they work with and whatnot.
I think I read on the DM website that someone once contacted the Mods and told them that his daughter had gotten involved with the rAinbow group, and they should check it out. He said he "had a hell of a time getting her out."
1) Like I said before, I think that if anyone wanted to kill Kristen, they'd have to know what they're doing to do such a good job of covering their tracks. Ie-Jon Onuma- as Dennis said on his website, "he's no choir boy." But that's a far cry from murder. BUT, then how come he screamed at someone, "Now you'll know what happened to KM?" And how come those pages were missing from Jill's diary/date book? And Dennis says that Jill is lying about SOMETHING, we just don't know what... So we have three unanswered questions in regard to them, although that doesn't mean they're guilty.
2) Nicaruaga. 2 problems with this theory. There is no record of her travelling with the National Passport Service (Dennis and the Mods checked). Without a passport, how could she have traveled. It's a lot of borders to have to cross without getting caught. The other problem is that no one else from Peace Corp or anyone else at that time also remembers her. I agree with Babcat, I also saw red flags when I read that Randall was "falling in love" with a kid young enough to his own!
3)Sutro Baths. I have a question for Suladog: Are there other people who have been lost at Sutro Baths and their bodies have not been found? If so, this could be a possibility. Here at websleuths, we've always been under the assumption that if something happened to her at the baths, then her body would have been found. Perhaps we're wrong.
4) A cult. I agree with everyone else, that a cult is no more bizarre than the Nicaruagua theory, if anything, more probable. In high school, the PTA once organized a "cult deprogrammer" to come speak to us one day. He showed us a movie, called "Ticket to Heaven," about a boy who got involved with the Moonies. He spoke to us about who and how cults target, how to protects ourselves, etc...There are "professionals" who do this type of thing- they are hired by parents to get the kids out. Although we have no idea if this is a possibility or not, it might be worthwhile for the Mods to maybe set up an appointment with one of these guys, and they can discuss Kristen, and see if her "profile" and circumstances fit. I imagine that in a city like San Fran, the police dept. has cult experts that they work with and whatnot.
I think I read on the DM website that someone once contacted the Mods and told them that his daughter had gotten involved with the rAinbow group, and they should check it out. He said he "had a hell of a time getting her out."
Hi.
My mom used to use the same hat on here.
Deprogrammers for kids who have been sucked into cults have become scarce since federal lawsuits have been filed against many... and some have even faced criminal kidnapping charges. In several cases the deprogramming did not work and the subject pressed charges. Most of the cult members are legally adults... so if it doesn't work you have a world of hurt on your hands beyond simply having once again lost your child. Most of the parents along with the deprogrammers have been forced to cross state lines to snatch their children from the jaws of these freaks. Once state lines are crossed it becomes a federal kidnapping charge that carries an even higher penalty. And of course the ACLU has jumped on this like flies on sh**. They would step on their grandmother's face to "legally" persecute main stream Christianity... but they won't stand for parents who want to save their adult children from Nazi-like mind control. :behindbar
If you have a free moment and are interested in the sort of damage cults can do, check out:
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/ (what Scientology can do for the soul :sick: )
http://members.tripod.com/~nfishel/index.html (Desperate parents and family of the Garbage Eaters
)
http://www.watchman.org/lds/bldatone.htm (The horrible murder of the entire Avery family, including three little girls, in the name of "religion". :furious: )
Better link for this story: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/lundgren/fate_15.html?sect=8
My mom used to use the same hat on here.
Deprogrammers for kids who have been sucked into cults have become scarce since federal lawsuits have been filed against many... and some have even faced criminal kidnapping charges. In several cases the deprogramming did not work and the subject pressed charges. Most of the cult members are legally adults... so if it doesn't work you have a world of hurt on your hands beyond simply having once again lost your child. Most of the parents along with the deprogrammers have been forced to cross state lines to snatch their children from the jaws of these freaks. Once state lines are crossed it becomes a federal kidnapping charge that carries an even higher penalty. And of course the ACLU has jumped on this like flies on sh**. They would step on their grandmother's face to "legally" persecute main stream Christianity... but they won't stand for parents who want to save their adult children from Nazi-like mind control. :behindbar
If you have a free moment and are interested in the sort of damage cults can do, check out:
http://www.lisamcpherson.org/ (what Scientology can do for the soul :sick: )
http://members.tripod.com/~nfishel/index.html (Desperate parents and family of the Garbage Eaters
)http://www.watchman.org/lds/bldatone.htm (The horrible murder of the entire Avery family, including three little girls, in the name of "religion". :furious: )
Better link for this story: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/mass/lundgren/fate_15.html?sect=8
Litlstar04
Member
Up2theminute said:
The information is partially on Dennis' site. He actually makes the statement "no revelations in revelations". I also read more in depth information about how Kristen interpreted that part of the Bible, somewhere else but now I'm having a hard time finding it. It seems to me that it was her mother who related the story of having the conversation with Kristen about the book of Revelations.
Litlstar04
Member
Another update on Onuma...
http://www.findkristen.com/PhoneRecords.html
http://www.findkristen.com/PhoneRecords.html
rachel
Inactive
Litlstar04 said:
Hi lilstar-
the link doesn't work. Could you check it, or tell us what the page says?
Another question: Dennis says he wants JO's passport records to see if he was ever in Nicauragua. why would that help?
1) Even if he was in Nicauagua, that still doesn't give us proof that he has anything to do with KM's disappearance. Especially since no one else in Granada remembers her, and there is a consensus here that Randall is uh.... two loaves short of a picnic, if you know what I mean. :loser:
2) If JO wasn't in Nicaruagua, that doesn't clear him from possible involvement in the disappearance of KM- unless his records indicate he was there on 6/23/97
I think Dm might be barking up the wrong tree on this one.
Juliana
Well-Known Member
rachel said:Hi lilstar-
the link doesn't work. Could you check it, or tell us what the page says?
Another question: Dennis says he wants JO's passport records to see if he was ever in Nicauragua. why would that help?
1) Even if he was in Nicauagua, that still doesn't give us proof that he has anything to do with KM's disappearance. Especially since no one else in Granada remembers her, and there is a consensus here that Randall is uh.... two loaves short of a picnic, if you know what I mean. :loser:
2) If JO wasn't in Nicaruagua, that doesn't clear him from possible involvement in the disappearance of KM- unless his records indicate he was there on 6/23/97
I think Dm might be barking up the wrong tree on this one.
I know you were addressing someone else, but just thought I would throw in my 2 cents worth. I don't think JO's passport records could "clear" him of any involvement with KM, but if they show that he was in Nicaurauga (sp!) it might give Kristen's family a lead to investigate more thoroughly and just be one more suspicious circumstance tying JO to KM.
IMO
Litlstar04
Member
rachel, the link doesn't work anymore because Dennis took the page down. He originally put it up to pressure some people in Hawaii to come forward with everything they knew about Onuma. Since Onuma called Dennis again, or perhaps the women in question contacted him also, he took the page down. To summarize: Onuma has been working at a Day Care Center in Hawaii where the mother of his child was also employed. Dennis tried to call this woman, Momi, and she hung up on him. Dennis then pressured the owner of the Day Care Center to contact him with any info. she had about Onuma, and also to alert her that it isn't okay with people that a person like Onuma is working with kids.
I don't know what came of this, but I'm assuming it was satisfactory to Dennis for him to take it down.
I'm not quite sure what it means if Onuma's passport records do/don't show activity in Nicaragua. I think this is just valuable information period - to have any sort of tracking of Onuma's whereabouts before and after Kristen's disappearance. Onuma's cooperation at all in this is a much needed change to hopefully bring some answers to the Mods.
I don't know what came of this, but I'm assuming it was satisfactory to Dennis for him to take it down.
I'm not quite sure what it means if Onuma's passport records do/don't show activity in Nicaragua. I think this is just valuable information period - to have any sort of tracking of Onuma's whereabouts before and after Kristen's disappearance. Onuma's cooperation at all in this is a much needed change to hopefully bring some answers to the Mods.
rachel
Inactive
Litlstar04 said:
Thanks for clearing that up.
Does anyone else have a hard time spelling Nicaragua? :doh:
Litlstar04
Member
:laugh: LOL
Has anyone ever been to Nicaragua? I never thought of it as much of a place to visit, but it seems there are a lot of people going down there. I was just wondering what it's like...
After this case, we sure won't! Every other sentence is Nicaragua this and Nicaragua that!
Has anyone ever been to Nicaragua? I never thought of it as much of a place to visit, but it seems there are a lot of people going down there. I was just wondering what it's like...
I wanted to jump in with my two cents on the theory that Kristen may have been recruited to the Roberts Group camp. Kristen may have been interested in religion/spirituality and she came from a religious family, but from what I know of her (which is through being acqainted with people in her family -- I never met her), there is no way that she has spent the last six, nearly seven years in a cult. She had everything in the world going for her and she was extremely close to her family and friends. I believe she was naive in some ways, mainly too trusting of people she didn't know, but this doesn't mean she was sucked into a cult. I understand that it's happened to some young people, but it's not plausible in this case, in my opinion.
Also, it's been brought up a few times in this forum that if she was murdered, her murderer must have been a pro to have disposed of her body in such a way that she hasn't been found. I understand what the person meant, but it seemed like the implication was that this is nearly impossible, while actually this happens all the time. I don't know if JO is that skilled at disposing of bodies, but if it weren't feasible to dispose of people without a trace, there wouldn't be thousands of missing people in this country alone. Has anyone read The Lovely Bones? The way that the protagonist's body was disposed of sends chills down my spine. There is no way that anyone would have ever found her.
Also, it's been brought up a few times in this forum that if she was murdered, her murderer must have been a pro to have disposed of her body in such a way that she hasn't been found. I understand what the person meant, but it seemed like the implication was that this is nearly impossible, while actually this happens all the time. I don't know if JO is that skilled at disposing of bodies, but if it weren't feasible to dispose of people without a trace, there wouldn't be thousands of missing people in this country alone. Has anyone read The Lovely Bones? The way that the protagonist's body was disposed of sends chills down my spine. There is no way that anyone would have ever found her.
Litlstar04
Member
Hey rooftopny, I haven't seen you around here lately.
I completely agree with you and have been meaning to post about the same thing. If Kristen was murdered, the fact that a body has never been found means nothing. It doesn't even have to be hidden that well for it to have not been found. There are many cases out there where a body is only stumbled across years later by accident.
I completely agree with you and have been meaning to post about the same thing. If Kristen was murdered, the fact that a body has never been found means nothing. It doesn't even have to be hidden that well for it to have not been found. There are many cases out there where a body is only stumbled across years later by accident.
To believe it isn't feasible is to close the door on a possibility that is very real, and to deny the reality of dozens of families who have lost children to this cult.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you're saying, and I completely acknowledge that many missing young people have been lured into cults. However, in Kristen's case, and her case only, I think it is highly unlikely.
I understand what you're saying, and I completely acknowledge that many missing young people have been lured into cults. However, in Kristen's case, and her case only, I think it is highly unlikely.
Up2theminute
Former member
The Kristen Foundation
"Offering Hope to Families of Endangered Adults"
http://www.modlink.com/kristen/html/updates.htm
http://www.cdswebs.com/kristen/news.htm
"Offering Hope to Families of Endangered Adults"
http://www.modlink.com/kristen/html/updates.htm
http://www.cdswebs.com/kristen/news.htm
Litlstar04
Member
This thread has been inactive for quite some time, so I thought I'd post about some new information from Dennis Mahon's site, www.findkristen.com. Dennis is on his way to Hawaii to try to find out any information that will either clear Onuma for once and for all or finally prove that Onuma has some involvement in Kristen's disappearance. He's also in the process of posting details of other women's stories of their experiences with Onuma.
http://www.findkristen.com/DennisHawaii.html
http://www.findkristen.com/DennisHawaii.html