GUILTY CA - Laci Peterson, 27, pregnant, Modesto, 24 Dec 2002

Status
Not open for further replies.
WEll, well, this is a problem in the timeline if he is trying to claim he saw her with the burglars and was shoved in their van on Dec 28th.

That van was found burned out on THE DAY AFTER Lacey was reported missing. So that was three days before this new claim that she was forced into the van on the 28th.

Spitulski investigated that van in December 2002, which was found the day after Laci disappeared and was less than a mile from the couple's home.

So whatever it is that was just linked above is incorrect info.

Everything I have read about the witness to her supposed kidnapping says he reported the tip on Dec 28th---and he has seen the kidnapping 3 or 4 days earlier.
I don't believe it is incorrect info. And the LAIP makes it clear what Harshman said. The van he saw was an old, white van. The burned van was orange. Do you really think serial burglars only own one van?

Harshman said he had seen the posters with Laci's photo. I think his focus was on Laci and he said it appeared she was under control of the men. The Detective who interviewed him asked him if he saw her dog and ignored his report/

There is now expert testimony that Conner was alive in early January.

JMO

MPD Sergeant Cloward received a call from Tom Harshman, a former reserve police officer for the Martinez Police Department, who called to report that on December 28, 2002, he saw a pregnant woman with a scared look on her face alongside a road with two men and an older white van. (98 RT 18510–18511.)
 
Also, LE had already arrested 2 of the burglars right after the burnt out van was found.

Are the defense attorneys now saying that there were accomplices, that were holding a 9 month pregnant lady, IN THE SAME EXACT NEIGHBORHOOD, at the SAME EXACT PARK, in the 3 days following the high profile kidnapping?

And they somehow got a different old white and tan van to all hang out in, in the exAct same neighborhood, where the FBI and the Federal Marshalls were scouring the area for Lacey and her baby? WHY would they do that?

And they kept her alive in that van in that area for a few more days and then killed her and attached her to concrete blocks and dumped her in the SF Bay? Did they have a boat?

There is evidence that she and the baby were underwater for quite a long time until they finally rose to the top and washed ashore. So these burglars could not have just driven there and dropped her on the beach.

Did these burglars get a boat, carry her dead body to the ocean, WHILE THE FBI WAS CONDUCTING SEARCHES ALL AROUND THERE?
BBM. Yes, and those accomplices have talked not just to LE but also to Defense attorneys which is why the LAIP wants to seal the records. They fear retribution.

They have said Laci was dumped in SF Bay because that is where LE had publicly stated SP had gone fishing.

All of your questions are answered in the LAIP court filing:


JMO
 
I do not necessarily believe anyone other than Scott Peterson was behind the deaths of Laci and Connor. However, if there is any new potential evidence that can be brought to light, and I do mean any, it must be investigated. I believe the victims and their families deserve to know the full extent of the crimes committed against them. I am not saying this is actually what happened in this case but what if Scott hired someone to abduct and murder Laci and he just disposed of her remains? If this had happened to my loved one you had better believe I would want to know every minuet detail of the crime, especially if new information became available that might alter those facts.
BBM. It wasn't just Laci's remains which were disposed. There is expert analysis that Conner was not a vaginal birth. His remains were found in the Bay with something tied around his neck and knotted with a bow tie. There are photos of the bow tie in the LAIP filing.

JMO


(8) “50-inch long tape or twine, about 6 inches wide” recovered from the neck of Conner Peterson at the time of autopsy that was found tied in a bow around his neck, with a “very tight overhand knot” remaining after the bow was loosened. (90 RT 1708617147–17148; 92 RT 17481; 93 RT 17611–17614.)
 
Right. Why wouldn’t they report it no matter who it was?! If you see anyone being forced against their will you call the police. You describe the car, the victim, the time of day, etc.

SEE SOMETHING-SAY SOMETHING

I find it very hard to believe a husband and wife would sit on that information. If their family member was missing they would be angry if no one reported it. That would bother someone’s conscience if you could have intercepted it.
The witnesses did call police the same day!! They didn't sit on the information but Modesto LE most certainly did sit on it.

JMO

 
I don't believe it is incorrect info. And the LAIP makes it clear what Harshman said. The van he saw was an old, white van. The burned van was orange. Do you really think serial burglars only own one van?

Harshman said he had seen the posters with Laci's photo. I think his focus was on Laci and he said it appeared she was under control of the men. The Detective who interviewed him asked him if he saw her dog and ignored his report/

There is now expert testimony that Conner was alive in early January.

JMO

MPD Sergeant Cloward received a call from Tom Harshman, a former reserve police officer for the Martinez Police Department, who called to report that on December 28, 2002, he saw a pregnant woman with a scared look on her face alongside a road with two men and an older white van. (98 RT 18510–18511.)
I find it very hard to believe that two low level burglars were able to keep Lacey alive, in an old van, in the same park where her dog was a running free. That park had to be crawling with FBI, forensics teams and search parties. EVERYONE in Modesto was looking for Lacey in those days immediately after Christmas.

And I am supposed to believe they had her out in that same park going to the bathroom on the dirt against a chain link fence, with the command post being 1/2 a block away? No one noticed a frightened 9 month pregnant lady but Harshman?

I am not buying that. That entire area was packed full of reporters, journalists, feds, LE, first responders, good samaritans and locals---ALL of them looking for a kidnapped pregnant woman, last known to be in that park.

And I am supposed to believe that these 2 burglars, who faced very little jail time for the heist, were going to hold this woman hostage, in an old van, in the same park that she went missing from, while all the world was there looking for her?

And then they killed her and drove a couple of hours to the SF Bay and 'secretly' dumped her and her baby in the same area that the FBI was searching for her?

I cannot believe that happened either. They were watching closely to see when and if Scott was visiting the area. And they have him on video lurking in that area before her remains surfaced.

They would have noticed 2 felons in an old van with a body bag, imo.
 
I find it very hard to believe that two low level burglars were able to keep Lacey alive, in an old van, in the same park where her dog was a running free. That park had to be crawling with FBI, forensics teams and search parties. EVERYONE in Modesto was looking for Lacey in those days immediately after Christmas.

And I am supposed to believe they had her out in that same park going to the bathroom on the dirt against a chain link fence, with the command post being 1/2 a block away? No one noticed a frightened 9 month pregnant lady but Harshman?

I am not buying that. That entire area was packed full of reporters, journalists, feds, LE, first responders, good samaritans and locals---ALL of them looking for a kidnapped pregnant woman, last known to be in that park.

And I am supposed to believe that these 2 burglars, who faced very little jail time for the heist, were going to hold this woman hostage, in an old van, in the same park that she went missing from, while all the world was there looking for her?

And then they killed her and drove a couple of hours to the SF Bay and 'secretly' dumped her and her baby in the same area that the FBI was searching for her?

I cannot believe that happened either. They were watching closely to see when and if Scott was visiting the area. And they have him on video lurking in that area before her remains surfaced.

They would have noticed 2 felons in an old van with a body bag, imo.
Couple that with the rest of it, and you’re talking about something so unprecedented, so astronomically improbable, so utterly insane, that it’s hilarious.
 
The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team prepares to dive along the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 searching for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)

CAAAJ5The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team prepares to dive along the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 searching for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)


CAAB1GPins and ribbons of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq at the volunteer center in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci13.jpg

Stacks of flyers of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq ready for distribution at the volunteer center where the search for Laci continues in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci12.jpg

CAAB1JStacks of flyers of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq ready for distribution at the volunteer center where the search for Laci continues in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci12.jpg
CAAB1

CARDA dog handler Peter Harrington and his bloodhound Bella search the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. Harrington and Bella were part of a large multi-agency search that included a half-dozen boats with dogs, divers and a helicopter.  (Contra Costa Times/Karl

CAAAJ9CARDA dog handler Peter Harrington and his bloodhound Bella search the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. Harrington and Bella were part of a large multi-agency search that included a half-dozen boats with dogs, divers and a helicopter. (Contra Costa Times/Karl

Aboard a Contra Costa County Sheriff's boat, CARDA dog handler Song Kowbell watches her Search and Rescue dog  Zippy for reactions as police conducted an extensive search of the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson.  (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)

CAAAJ6Aboard a Contra Costa County Sheriff's boat, CARDA dog handler Song Kowbell watches her Search and Rescue dog Zippy for reactions as police conducted an extensive search of the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)



The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team searches the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)
 
The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team prepares to dive along the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 searching for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)'s dive team prepares to dive along the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 searching for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)

CAAAJ5The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team prepares to dive along the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 searching for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)


CAAB1GPins and ribbons of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq at the volunteer center in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci13.jpg

Stacks of flyers of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq ready for distribution at the volunteer center where the search for Laci continues in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci12.jpg

CAAB1JStacks of flyers of missing Laci Rocha Peterson cq ready for distribution at the volunteer center where the search for Laci continues in Modesto, Calif. Saturday January 11, 2003. (CONTRA COSTA TIMES/Susan Tripp Pollard)2002 slug:Laci12.jpg
CAAB1

CARDA dog handler Peter Harrington and his bloodhound Bella search the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. Harrington and Bella were part of a large multi-agency search that included a half-dozen boats with dogs, divers and a helicopter.  (Contra Costa Times/Karl

CAAAJ9CARDA dog handler Peter Harrington and his bloodhound Bella search the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. Harrington and Bella were part of a large multi-agency search that included a half-dozen boats with dogs, divers and a helicopter. (Contra Costa Times/Karl

Aboard a Contra Costa County Sheriff's boat, CARDA dog handler Song Kowbell watches her Search and Rescue dog  Zippy for reactions as police conducted an extensive search of the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson.  (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)'s boat, CARDA dog handler Song Kowbell watches her Search and Rescue dog  Zippy for reactions as police conducted an extensive search of the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson.  (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)

CAAAJ6Aboard a Contra Costa County Sheriff's boat, CARDA dog handler Song Kowbell watches her Search and Rescue dog Zippy for reactions as police conducted an extensive search of the Berkeley Marina Saturday for missing Modesto woman Laci Rocha Peterson. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)



The Alameda County Sheriff's dive team searches the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)'s dive team searches the shoreline of Cesar Chavez park north of the Berkeley Marina late Saturday afternoon January 4, 2003 for Laci Peterson, the missing Modesto woman. (Contra Costa Times/Karl Mondon/January 4, 2003)
So while a half a dozen LE search party boats and a team of blood hounds and dozens of cadets were searching this area for Lacey, we are to believe that 2 frazzled burglars 'snuck' into the area and dumped her dead body. No one else noticed/
 
I find it very hard to believe that two low level burglars were able to keep Lacey alive, in an old van, in the same park where her dog was a running free. That park had to be crawling with FBI, forensics teams and search parties. EVERYONE in Modesto was looking for Lacey in those days immediately after Christmas.

And I am supposed to believe they had her out in that same park going to the bathroom on the dirt against a chain link fence, with the command post being 1/2 a block away? No one noticed a frightened 9 month pregnant lady but Harshman?

I am not buying that. That entire area was packed full of reporters, journalists, feds, LE, first responders, good samaritans and locals---ALL of them looking for a kidnapped pregnant woman, last known to be in that park.

And I am supposed to believe that these 2 burglars, who faced very little jail time for the heist, were going to hold this woman hostage, in an old van, in the same park that she went missing from, while all the world was there looking for her?

And then they killed her and drove a couple of hours to the SF Bay and 'secretly' dumped her and her baby in the same area that the FBI was searching for her?

I cannot believe that happened either. They were watching closely to see when and if Scott was visiting the area. And they have him on video lurking in that area before her remains surfaced.

They would have noticed 2 felons in an old van with a body bag, imo.
Low level burglars? What does that even mean? A teacher reported to LE that one of the burglar's wives had sold babies. That's trafficking, highly illegal. Feel free to prove any of the multiple witnesses wrong. By all means, have at it.

If you don't want to believe it, that is up to you. But the fact remains, there are multiple eyewitness reports that LE disregarded.

Why would LE disregard reports from eyewitnesses?
JMO

g) Grace Wolf. On May 27, 2003, Gary Ermoian interviewed Grace Wolf, who reported that she saw Laci Peterson walking her dog the morning of December 24, 2002, on Encina Avenue. (Exh. 9 at ¶ 37, Exh. N.) Ms. Wolf recognized Laci because she had seen her and Scott walking their dog in the past and had stopped and talked on occasion. Ms. Wolf stated that when she saw the news coverage of Laci’s disappearance, she immediately told her family that she had seen Laci walking on December 24, but she was hesitant about calling the police because they were discrediting anyone who claimed they saw Laci out walking that day. Mr. Ermoian preserved Ms. Wolf’s statement in a videotaped interview.20 (Id. at ¶ 40, Exh. O.)

JMO
 
Low level burglars? What does that even mean?
By 'low level' burglars I mean that if 3 or 4 guys broke into an empty house and stole some jewellery and stuff, they would not be looking at serious prison time----nothing compared to what they'd receive for holding a pregnant woman hostage for days and then killing her and her baby. That would instantly put them out of 'low level burglars' and into Death Penalty stratosphere.

The other two burglars were already in custody. So what was the point of holding and then killing Lacey? That was not going to prevent them from being caught eventually once their accomplices were already in jail.

And why would they stick around in the most highly dangerous area for them to be in, and allow her to go to the bathroom on the side of the road? None of that makes any sense.

Have you seen the pictures of ALL of the searches going on in that exact area, at the exact same time they were supposedly hiding Lacey in an old van? How come no one else but Harshman saw her during that time?


A teacher reported to LE that one of the burglar's wives had sold babies. That's trafficking, highly illegal. Feel free to prove any of the multiple witnesses wrong. By all means, have at it.
I don't have to because others already have. There were other pregnant women who walked yellow labs in that neighborhood.
If you don't want to believe it, that is up to you. But the fact remains, there are multiple eyewitness reports that LE disregarded.

Why would LE disregard reports from eyewitnesses?

Many eyewitnesses have testimony that conflicts with other eyewitnesses. So some has to be disregarded. For example, we know what time the dog returned that morning dragging the leash. So anyone that says they saw her AFTER that time cannot be seen as totally accurate in their account.

How many eyewitnesses claimed to see Caylee alive and well after we knew she was already deceased in the trunk of her mother's car? Eyewitnesses are not always credible.
JMO

g) Grace Wolf. On May 27, 2003, Gary Ermoian interviewed Grace Wolf, who reported that she saw Laci Peterson walking her dog the morning of December 24, 2002, on Encina Avenue. (Exh. 9 at ¶ 37, Exh. N.) Ms. Wolf recognized Laci because she had seen her and Scott walking their dog in the past and had stopped and talked on occasion. Ms. Wolf stated that when she saw the news coverage of Laci’s disappearance, she immediately told her family that she had seen Laci walking on December 24, but she was hesitant about calling the police because they were discrediting anyone who claimed they saw Laci out walking that day. Mr. Ermoian preserved Ms. Wolf’s statement in a videotaped interview.20 (Id. at ¶ 40, Exh. O.)

Wait a minute---Grace immediately told her family about seeing Lacey on the 24th, but ask that same time she 'knew' that the police were discrediting eyewitnesses? How would she know that so quickly?
 
BBM. It wasn't just Laci's remains which were disposed. There is expert analysis that Conner was not a vaginal birth. His remains were found in the Bay with something tied around his neck and knotted with a bow tie. There are photos of the bow tie in the LAIP filing.

JMO


(8) “50-inch long tape or twine, about 6 inches wide” recovered from the neck of Conner Peterson at the time of autopsy that was found tied in a bow around his neck, with a “very tight overhand knot” remaining after the bow was loosened. (90 RT 1708617147–17148; 92 RT 17481; 93 RT 17611–17614.)
I have seen ducks and birds and otters with plastic bags, twine, etc, wrapped around their feet or necks, sometimes looking like bow ties or knotted up shoelaces, etc. It's not unusual, unfortunately.

And of course it wasn't a vaginal birth---she was dead and so was her baby, so there was no 'birth.' Once decomposition happened the baby came out. It's very ugly to even discuss but here we are.
 
BBM. It wasn't just Laci's remains which were disposed. There is expert analysis that Conner was not a vaginal birth. His remains were found in the Bay with something tied around his neck and knotted with a bow tie. There are photos of the bow tie in the LAIP filing.

JMO


(8) “50-inch long tape or twine, about 6 inches wide” recovered from the neck of Conner Peterson at the time of autopsy that was found tied in a bow around his neck, with a “very tight overhand knot” remaining after the bow was loosened. (90 RT 1708617147–17148; 92 RT 17481; 93 RT 17611–17614.)
I said I was stating a hypothetical situation, not the situation that actually occurred.
 
By 'low level' burglars I mean that if 3 or 4 guys broke into an empty house and stole some jewellery and stuff, they would not be looking at serious prison time----nothing compared to what they'd receive for holding a pregnant woman hostage for days and then killing her and her baby. That would instantly put them out of 'low level burglars' and into Death Penalty stratosphere.

The other two burglars were already in custody. So what was the point of holding and then killing Lacey? That was not going to prevent them from being caught eventually once their accomplices were already in jail.

And why would they stick around in the most highly dangerous area for them to be in, and allow her to go to the bathroom on the side of the road? None of that makes any sense.

Have you seen the pictures of ALL of the searches going on in that exact area, at the exact same time they were supposedly hiding Lacey in an old van? How come no one else but Harshman saw her during that time?



I don't have to because others already have. There were other pregnant women who walked yellow labs in that neighborhood.


Many eyewitnesses have testimony that conflicts with other eyewitnesses. So some has to be disregarded. For example, we know what time the dog returned that morning dragging the leash. So anyone that says they saw her AFTER that time cannot be seen as totally accurate in their account.

How many eyewitnesses claimed to see Caylee alive and well after we knew she was already deceased in the trunk of her mother's car? Eyewitnesses are not always credible.


Wait a minute---Grace immediately told her family about seeing Lacey on the 24th, but ask that same time she 'knew' that the police were discrediting eyewitnesses? How would she know that so quickly?
I put no faith in eye witness testimony- You reference Caylee- yep, everyone and their mother reported seeing her when she was deceased!
 
Please continue the discussion on Thread #2.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
200
Guests online
1,982
Total visitors
2,182

Forum statistics

Threads
594,825
Messages
18,013,393
Members
229,522
Latest member
rypie15
Back
Top