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CA CA - Los Angeles, Wht/HispFem UP4459, 17-21, jumped off 710 Fwy bridge, Aug'75

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Ambercat, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    The Doe Network Hot Case 650

    Unidentified White Female (Doe Network)/Unidentified Latino Female (The News Van Nuys, CA)

    http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase650.html
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7qr-CWmQebc/SqLriMm_N9I/AAAAAAAAFSI/Zo0_mzfU2C0/s1600-h/uidca75.jpg

    The victim was discovered on August 2, 1975 in Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, California
    Estimated Date of Death: August 2, 1975 11:30 PM
    Cause of Death: Suicide
    Estimated age: 17-21 years old (born 1955-1958)

    Approximate Height and Weight: 5'1"; 103 lbs. The News Van Nuys, CA article from Tuesday August 5, 1975 states that height and weight could not be determined due to the condition of the body.

    Distinguishing Characteristics: Black hair, below shoulder length; brown eyes. Short right and left index fingers.

    Clothing: White blouse with green flowers; dark pink "capris"; white sandals (the news article said that pink capris, a white blouse and no shoes)

    The victim jumped off the First Street Bridge onto Long Beach (710) Freeway at 2330 hours, in Los Angeles, California on August 2, 1975.

     
  2. rcoope23

    rcoope23 New Member

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    So sad, such a young girl and so determined to end her own life. I wonder what her story is?
     
  3. rcoope23

    rcoope23 New Member

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    Song Im Joseph goes missing a few months before. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6936/77?current_page=case_information

    I know it says latino but she fits the description perfectly. Pity there is no reconstruction of the victim. She also was wearing a flower top and sandals, as the victim was when she commited suicide,



    Song Im Joseph
    Missing since June 8, 1975 from Rehoboth, Sussex County, Delaware
    Classification: Endangered Missing


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vital Statistics
    •Date of Birth: July 28, 1954
    •Age at Time of Disappearance: 20 years old
    •Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2-5'3"; 100-105 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: Asian female. Korean. Black hair; brown eyes. Slender build. Dark complexion.
    •Clothing: Red halter top with green and blue flowers. Blue checkered slacks. Brown and white sandals. Gold wedding band with diamond.
    •Dentals: Available

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Song Joseph was last seen at her Rehoboth Beach home on June 8, 1975.
    She came to the United States from Korea in November, 1974 with her American serviceman husband.

    Song Joseph is missing under suspicious circumstances and there is no paper trail for her. She did not own or have access to a vehicle.

    There is no record of her ever returning to Korea. Since she went missing Song Im Joseph has never used her social security number. Nor is there an arrest record on file with the FBI.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Investigators
    If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

    Delaware State Police
    302-739-5939

    Agency Case Number: 07-75-1872

    NCIC Number: M-361086845
    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Source Information:
    Namus


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  4. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    The area (East Los Angeles) where the young woman jumped has a very large Latino population, I think that is why they believe that she was probably Hispanic. Then again, if she was from the area, people would have an idea who she was? The Doe Network has her listed as White. I guess if doing a reconstruction was not possible, it is possible that she could have been Asian. This is really sad. I would like to find more information about her, so that she can be identified.
     
  5. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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  6. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Its been 36 years since this unknown young woman jumped to her death. Hopefully, she will be identified soon.
     
  7. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Barbara Glueckert is a year or two younger than the estimate, but the man who she was last seen with moved from Illinois to California -- I wonder if they could have relocated to California and things went bad once they got here and she decided to take her life? Maybe that is too farfetched.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/4594/31/
     
  8. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I was wondering if anyone saw her before she jumped (i.e. was it confirmed that no one pushed/threw her over the railing)? The newspaper article said she was not wearing shoes, yet NamUs and the Doe Network both said that she was wearing white sandals. Did she take them off prior to jumping? The 1st Street Bridge is right next to a Chinese Cemetery, ever since Rcoope23 suggested that she could have been Song Im Joseph, I have wondered if she was Asian and not White or Hispanic. It looks like there are two other cemeteries really close to were she jumped -- a Catholic one and a Serbian one. Could she have been visiting the grave of a deceased loved one and decided to take her life?
     
  9. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    The doe was wearing clothes kind of similar to Song Im Joseph, except for the pants:

    Clothing on body
    WHITE BL0USE W-GREEN FL0WERS,DARK PINK CAPRIS,
    Clothing with body
    Footwear
    WHITE SANDALS

    https://identifyus.org/cases/4459

    And the doe has no mention of jewelry...
     
  10. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    Ambercat, did you notice this on the doe's profile at NamUS? " Deformities
    Crippled left finger
    Crippled right finger"
     
  11. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    I noticed it, yet I was never 100% sure what they meant and how obvious it would be. I was thinking that she might not necessarily be Ms. Joseph (the distance between where she went missing and East LA is quite a big distance) -- the unidentified woman might be Asian and not White or Hispanic. I remember in the late 1970s and early 1980s there were a lot of Asian immigrating to Southern California; I'm not really sure if this was the case in 1975, though.
     
  12. Kimster

    Kimster Former Member

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    I wasn't sure what they meant by that either. And I have no idea how much of a science it is to be able to determine one ethnic group from another?
     
  13. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Of the three basic races (Mongoloid, Caucasoid, and Negroid), it's pretty easy to determine race from the shape of the skull.

    If you lay a skull face-down on a flat surface, a Negroid or Caucasoid skull will pivot on the tip of the nasal bone. A Mongoloid (i.e., "Asian") skull will sit on three points (i.e., the nasal bone and the foremost points of the cheek bones.)

    If you set a straightedge vertically against the front of a Caucasoid skull, you can simultaneously touch the nasal bone and the chin. You wouldn't be able to do this with a Negroid skull because the teeth would obstruct that plane. The teeth on a Negroid skull also tend to form a wider arch.

    The differences within these three race categories are more subtle, and I suppose that people of mixed race may be more difficult to tell. But Song Im Joseph appears to be decidedly Mongoloid, and any ME worth his salt would be able to recognize that.
     
  14. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Thanks for letting me know about that – I didn’t realize that was how it was determined (I had thought it was a lot more subjective than that). Even prior to Los Angeles County taking their photos off of the website, there wasn’t one for this UID, so [trying to avoid being graphic] I think she was very damaged from the jump onto the freeway. Maybe she was someone not from the area whose family/friends did not realize she was in Los Angeles (or even the USA).
     
  15. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    Until recently, I had assumed no one had seen this UID until after she jumped onto the freeway. I was really surprised when Daniel Machain told me via e-mail that there were witnesses who had seen her on the bridge prior to jumping. The people who had seen her at this time said that she was Hispanic or possibly Caucasian. He writes --

    Her identification potential has been recently upgraded from very low to medium on NamUs. While there isn't DNA or dental records for her, the LA Coroner has a set of her fingerprints in her file. The congenital defect of her index fingers is something that Inv. Machain says could also be used to identify her.
     
  16. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    Unidentified White Female discovered on August 2, 1975 in Los Angeles, CA

    Unidentified White Female
    The victim was discovered on August 2, 1975 in Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, California
    Estimated Date of Death: August 2, 1975
    Cause of Death: Suicide

    Vital Statistics


    Estimated age: 17-21 years old (born 1955-1958)
    Approximate Height and Weight: 5'1"; 103 lbs.
    Distinguishing Characteristics: Black hair, below shoulder length; brown eyes. Short right and left index fingers.
    Clothing: White blouse with green flowers; dark pink "capris"; white sandals.
    Dentals: Not Available
    Fingerprints: Available
    DNA: Not Available

    Case History

    The victim jumped off the First Street Bridge onto Long Beach Freeway at 23.30, in Los Angeles, California on August 2, 1975.

    Investigators

    If you have any information about this case please contact:

    Los Angeles Coroner
    Investigator Daniel Machian
    323-343-0754
    323-222-0343
    Email:

    dmachian@co.la.ca.us

    --
    Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
    Cold Case Unit
    323-890-5500
    Email:

    Tip@LACountyMurders.com

    --
    Jeannine Willie
    California Department of Justice
    916-227-3405
    Email:

    jeannine.willie@doj.ca.gov

    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    Coroner Case Number:75-9275

    NCIC Number:U-762006341

    Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

    Source Information:
    NamUs
    The Doe Network Hot Case 650


    LINK:

    http://doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase650.html
     
  17. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    On the same evening (less than an hour before) this young woman killed herself, a 26 year old named Larry R. Adams from Wichita, Kansas died when he plunged from the Santa Monica Blvd. overpass onto the Hollywood Freeway.
    http://newspaperarchive.com/press-telegram/1975-08-04/page-16?tag=unidentified+young+man+murder+victim&rtserp=articles/unidentified-young-man-murder-victim?page=4&pc=16717&psi=14&pci=7&py=1972&pey=1983&psb=relavance
    I am not sure if there is a connection between the Mr. Adams and this UID.
     
  18. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The two locations are about 10 miles from each other, connected by almost a straight shot down Sunset Blvd (a portion of which is now called Cesar Chavez Blvd, but was still called Sunset Blvd in 1975).

    (A) is where Larry Adams jumped. (B) is where Jane Doe jumped.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=S...&gl=us&mra=dvme&mrsp=4&sz=15&via=1,2,3,4&z=12

    If she had witnessed Adams' jump (less than an hour earlier), it would have taken more than an hour to walk 10 miles to the First Street Overpass of the 710 Freeway. She would have had to have gotten a ride.
     
  19. Ambercat

    Ambercat New Member

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    :bump:

    I would like to know what brought Larry R. Adams from Kansas to the Los Angeles area and if he came here alone or with someone. Also, did he meet anyone/make plans to meet anyone when he was here. It is so far after the fact, I am not even sure how to go about looking into this.

    On a side note, every so often I search the missing person section of NamUs for women with unusual index fingers. I found two women with index finger issues, both seem unlikely to be this UID.

    Audrey Backeburg, who went missing on July 7, 1962 from Reedsburg, WI at age 20, who has a "Crooked Left Index Finger."
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9699/3/

    and

    Kathy Wilcox, who went missing at age 15 from Otsego, Mi on July 12, 1972, who has "Right or left index finger has a hooked fingernail."
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1832/74
     
  20. pjclover

    pjclover New Member

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    The fingers seem to be one of the few identifiable factors of this Doe - her NamUs profile lists them as being "crippled" so they must have had some significant deformity.

    Speaking of the NamUs profile - can someone answer a DNA storage related question? NamUs rated this case a "medium" chance of being solved, but states there is no DNA available. Does this just mean that the DNA isn't in CODIS, or does it mean that there is no DNA and there will never be an opportunity to compare DNA? In other words, are tissues preserved to extract a sample at a later date?
     

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