Identified! CA - Mendocino Co, 2 WhtFem Teens, Jul'79 *Francine Trimble & Kerry Graham*

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I wondered if she was Kerry Graham. Guess I was right.
 
CarlK90245 said:
This was not a CODIS hit. It was a NCIC hit on dentals. Earlier this year, the detective in charge of Kerry's case looked in the casefile and realized that the Date of Last contact was a year off. It had her DLC as December 79, when in fact she was LKA in December 78.

When he changed the DLC in NCIC, the system immediately kicked out a hit on dentals.

One major weakness in the NCIC system is it will not generate a dental hit if the DLC is later than the Date of Discovery. So if there is a DLC error, as there was here, the NCIC system will not run a dental comparison.


________

Edit to add correction: The hit wasn't on dentals, it was just a hit based on general similarities. The dentals were never entered in the system until after they got the hit. But the match was confirmed using dentals.

My point about inconsistent dates precluding a dental match is correct though. If the DLC precedes the date of discovery, NCIC will not compare the dental charts.
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Question: So theoretically, if all of the DLCs/LKA dates of ALL MPs were moved back one year, or even 6 months, NCIC would most likely generate more hits for UID/MP matches?
 
On Charleyprojects Resolved, but nowhere else I could find.
Hoping it's not too late for justice for these girls...
 
the picture of Kerry when they thought she was a boy is actually quite similar to her facial structure.
 
Amazing work! Doing a little happy dance now :happydance:
 
Oh, ok! Sorry, I didn't know the procedure there Carl. It just seemed pretty official if it was announced on two different sites.
 
cymster said:
Oh, ok! Sorry, I didn't know the procedure there Carl. It just seemed pretty official if it was announced on two different sites.
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I came here to ask the same "Identified" question, but I see that it's already been asked/answered.

BTW Cymster... I've had a really crappy day (which ain't over by a long shot). It didn't "save the world" for me or anything, but seeing the Big Totoro made me feel just a trite better.
 
Amazing work guys!
Glad to see these girls identified, although at the same time I am sad to see what happened to them.
RIP Francine and Kerry, I hope that justice is swift.
 
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back here to reply more. I rarely get online these days. My 2 year old grandson keeps me busy

sam spade said:
Roselvr,

I think you've got yourself your first solve. That pic CarlK posted with the necklace...those are the birds with the doe; no doubt in my mind. And I agree with you...let's solve some more this year. God bless...
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Thank you. Back when I saw Kerry posted in Arroyo's thread, I had a feeling she was one of the Does. That's why I asked Carl to do the recon. What is funny is she looks like the digital recon for the one that's always been female, yet I believe she was matched to the male. This has been a kick a$$ year for identifications! So thankful so many Does have gone home! Grateful Dead Fan too! Warms my heart and brings tears to my eyes!

Doe Net always female - not sure that I ever saw this - Estimated age: Not over 14 years old. Estimated year of birth is 1964.
Doe Net Male
131UFCA.jpg
graham_kerry.jpg
111UMCA.jpg
111UMCA1.jpg


taramarie said:
Roselvr is one of the admins of the FB page "Never Forget Me" & this story was posted last night, so I think she already knows :)
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Thank you. We also feature Carl's recons so if Carl knows, I know. rainwater & I are also good friends; she keeps me updated too

carbuff said:
I saw that last night on the other thread and I was like, way to go, roselvr!
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Thank you! This is my 1st match. I never thought I would get a match since I've been working the missing side more now. I don't know if my match was ever turned in & who it was turned into. See my next reply to nola. I'm really kicking myself that I didn't have Still Seek Answers call it in back in Oct/Nov last year.

nola said:
Just received communication from Clark County stating that Kerry Graham was not a match for AGJD (NV) BUT was matched via CODIS to unidentified remains from Mendocino County Sheriff’s Office in Fort Bragg CA. You guys had this for a while. My understanding is that Kerry's family has been notified.
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Still Seek Answers called in June to make sure my match was turned in and was told that they got an NCIC dental hit after changing Kerry's missing date to 1978. We had heard the Does were sent to Ft Bragg because they have newer technology to extract DNA from older remains. Apparently they were able to get DNA from the Does to also get a DNA hit. We knew it was coming. Thank you for letting us know. I'm very thankful that LE contacted family before the holidays.

nola said:
Does anyone know if Francine's DNA was submitted to CODIS? My LE contact is in NV, not CA. So this match of Kerry came as a result of NV running Kerry's mitochondrial DNA (I think from mom and sister) thru CODIS as a potential for their Jane Doe. If anyone has a connection at Mendocino County, they might be willing to share Francine's DNA status. It would make logical sense that these two teens who left together would be found together.
God Bless their families and grant them peace.
c:
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Francine's family has been notified too.

nola said:
100% correct on this case Websleuthers!!
Detective Azeez (Sonoma County Sheriff's office/Missing Persons) was able to confirm that both girls (Francine & Kerry) did match the two previously unidentifed remains from Mendocino County. They are tying up loose ends, but appreciate y'alls submission. Nice job!

So impressed that despite the gender and last seen date error that you people zeroed in on this and got it right :great:
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We knew the gender was wrong because DrDMike called June 29, 2014. I had given the info to Todd Matthews (NamUs). He sent Carrie Sutherland out within a day or 2 of me contacting him. It was officially changed in NamUs on Thanksgiving Day. NamUs was the only one to change it too.

zelda_s said:
I thought Kerry Graham went missing December 1979 and these remains were found July 1979?
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I always question older dates. The best advice I have is to check the MP's NamUs, Doe network & Charley Project pages to read. I always go to Charley Project 1st because they seem to have better information. I then hit Doe Net up 2nd.

cvaldez1975 said:
the one they thought was male.

they were so close to home!!! im betting they really didn't run away, they prob were hitch hiking and got the wrong ride.

I haven't seen roselvr around, and it says time out on her thing. maybe someone should hit her up and let her know?
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Agree with you. I don't know if Kerry & Francine were known to leave. Will see if I can ask on her Project Jason profile.

cvaldez1975 said:
also, Forestville is a bit west of santa rosa and Sonoma and en route to the beach. they could have been hitching to the beach or something.
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Really breaks my heart.

CarlK90245 said:
This was not a CODIS hit. It was a NCIC hit on dentals. Earlier this year, the detective in charge of Kerry's case looked in the casefile and realized that the Date of Last contact was a year off. It had her DLC as December 79, when in fact she was LKA in December 78.

When he changed the DLC in NCIC, the system immediately kicked out a hit on dentals.

One major weakness in the NCIC system is it will not generate a dental hit if the DLC is later than the Date of Discovery. So if there is a DLC error, as there was here, the NCIC system will not run a dental comparison.
________

Edit to add correction: The hit wasn't on dentals, it was just a hit based on general similarities. The dentals were never entered in the system until after they got the hit. But the match was confirmed using dentals.

My point about inconsistent dates precluding a dental match is correct though. If the DLC precedes the date of discovery, NCIC will not compare the dental charts.
Click to expand...

In this day and age, this angers me so much! They should be able to write a program where the dental similarities hit with a question of the date.

Still_Seek_Answers said:
Yes, Roselvr did a wonderful job and I am very happy for her. We did release it on Never Forget Me as a tentative ID only because we like to make sure LE is ready for the information to be released before we post it as a confirmed ID. Since we do allow people to link to threads here on WS that go with the cases we post I am sure many of our readers have come over here to read their thread and catch up on things they did not know.

Great Job Roselvr!!
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Thank you for having my back! <3 I wish we could find Deb for you! It is time that you're able to visit with her and your parents together!

AliceInPain said:
On Charleyprojects Resolved, but nowhere else I could find.
Hoping it's not too late for justice for these girls...
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I am not sure if they called LE to confirm or if they called it because we released tentative.

cymster said:
The Doenetwork has them Identified today when I checked! This case can be moved to the Identified section.

Also Charley Project has this case in their resolved section: http://www.charleyproject.org/resolved.html
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NCMEC had also pulled all 4 profiles, but I am unsure of the date except when I went to google to grab the cache, it was already gone on 11/17, so google had already crawled.

CarlK90245 said:
We are waiting for an official announcement from LE before moving this.
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And I am not sure what is going on except that it sounds like people have contacted NamUs to inquire if they knew of the match. My personal opinion is that I think that could be why profiles have not been pulled

cymster said:
Oh, ok! Sorry, I didn't know the procedure there Carl. It just seemed pretty official if it was announced on two different sites.
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I'm surprised NCMEC didn't announce it on their Help ID Me FB page like they did for Grateful Dead Fan/ Jason Callahan

Tulessa said:
Great job! :blowkiss:
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Thank you! :blowkiss:
____________________________
Want to leave their links cause I keep going thru the thread to grab them lol
NCMEC Girl - pulled
NCMEC Boy - pulled

Girl NamUs UP #10447 - Francine Trimble
"Boy" NamUs UP #10450 - Kerry Graham

Doe Net always female
Doe Net Male

Charley Project Resolved Cases - never noticed this till now - source Websleuths
Kerry Graham Charley Project - profile removed
Francine Trimble Charley Project - profile removed


Kerry & Francine's Websleuths thread
 
Great to see you back Roselvr and congratulations!
 
New details in 37-year-old Mendocino County cold case

http://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/general-news/20160128/new-details-in-37-year-old-mendocino-county-cold-case

The Mendocino County Sheriff&#8217;s Office is expected to announce new details next week in a 37-year-old cold case investigation involving two unsolved deaths.

On Tuesday, Sheriff Tom Allman and investigators are planning a press conference to release the identities of the two victims, now believed to be two 14-year-old girls that went missing from Santa Rosa in 1978.
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