CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

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They are mentally ill people who go out in public day in and day out. Parents say he was not violent or aggressive prior to this incident. So I fail to see why they wouldn't take him out in public. What is he supposed to do, sit home all day? Son was born and was developing just fine, attended school, university until his schizophrenia manifested itself when he was in his twenties. It got to be super hard on the parents. But they were taking care of him and took him places without incident prior to this.
 
Parents can't even take care of themselves anymore, their other son has to take care of them. Meanwhile the cop hasn't been charged with anything. Does anyone believe a civilian wouldn't have been charged by now?

"Kevin said he hasn’t slept in his own bed for more than 2½ months. “I’ve just been taking them to doctors’ appointments, see surgeons, just whatever they need, everyday tasks, medication, his IV, antibiotics, pills… the list just doesn’t end.”"
Costco shooting: ‘I begged and told him not to shoot,’ says man whose son was killed by LAPD officer
 
I think it's important for all of us to know, if someone shoves you and causes you to fall down, do you then have the right to get up off the ground and fire shots in their general direction? Can you only start shooting if you were holding a child when you were knocked to the ground?

In addition, do you only have the right to shoot if your occupation is as a police officer? If I'm not a policeman, but I shout that I am one to the people I'm about to shoot at, does that then give me clearance to fire away?

We need to be aware of the rules which govern our society in the year 2019. You never know when someone is going to try to start something by shoving you, so having the ability to put a few bullets in them without hesitation, could prove to be very helpful in resolving the situation, and keeping oneself safe.
 
It's all so confusing. Who knows what is okay and not okay to do in public? Who knew that only policemen can shoot to kill in a crowded store, due to being pushed. I've been pushed/assaulted a handful of times and it has never occurred to me to even use mace/bear spray.

SoCalDavid, you're asking good questions. We all wish we knew the answers.
 
Does the court order include the autopsy and other evidence? I assumed it only covered the video (Riverside prosecutors may have requested the court order because of LAPD's policy to release videos of officer-involved shootings within 45 days). Not sure if there is a similar policy regarding timeline in releasing autopsies and info on other evidence.
 
gitana1 said:
They did and were in the Kelly Thomas case. They threatened witnesses and confiscated and destroyed their cell phone videos of the beating. I spoke to several witnesses.

It happens with the police. Not all but it should never happen and I don't blame people for being concerned here under the circumstances. I am concerned. Still waiting for more info before I can judge completely but I'm torubled by what we are hearing and the sealing of the video.

This is a case of public interest. LE is powerful and have guns in public places. Whether or not they abuse that power is a serious concern of the public. Or should be. So we should have access to the video.
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And just yesterday another Fullerton police officer has been charged with taking pictures up high school girls skirts, while he was on assignment at the high school.

I won't say that every police officer is bad, but there is a culture of corruption in many, if not all departments. The good officers are afraid of losing their jobs or worse, if they speak out against the bad ones. And yes, they all carry guns, even the ones who are worst criminals than the individuals they are charged with bringing to justice.
 
At the very least, it's evidently a grey area. Whether or not the proper response to being knocked down is getting back up and firing shots in "self defense" of your life. I used to think that the clear answer as to whether this is allowed would be an emphatic NO! But given how the police seem to be struggling on the issue of whether to charge this officer with ANYTHING, let alone relieve him of his duties as a law officer, it's more of a case by case situation. That's why I was asking what is allowed and what is not allowed in the year 2019. And if an off duty policeman is not above the law, and they're allowed to do this, then obviously so am I.

And since I don't possess a gun, couldn't I just as easily carry a knife, and go at someone who knocks me over for no reason out in public? Curious minds need to know.
 
Dollars to donuts, a civilian wouldn't get the same treatment as this cop. Especially in California, not known for being a stand your ground state. He shot three people, 2 of whom didn't assault him. In fact they both say they were begging him not to shoot. Even if he argues self-defense, how would that apply to people who did nothing to him? So why is he not charged? I think pretty clearly because he is a cop.
 
The Corona police made no recommendation about criminal charges when they passed the case on to the Riverside County District Attorney - it's up to Riverside County DA whether or not to file charges. As for LAPD, not sure what their administrative investigation has determined but I'm pretty sure there are rules about who can / can't be fired (due to agreements with the union and all that). I certainly don't have confidence in an LAPD cop who may lack the judgment skills to determine how to respond appropriately to perceived threats - who's to say how he would respond while on duty?
 
You really have to do something horrible to get punished by the law and/or fired from a police department. Like that idiot cop here in So Cal who claimed he was shot at and wounded, but later admitted to making it all up. He was fired within a day. Shooting a family of 3 at Costco, no big deal.
 
SoCalDavidS said:
You really have to do something horrible to get punished by the law and/or fired from a police department. Like that idiot cop here in So Cal who claimed he was shot at and wounded, but later admitted to making it all up. He was fired within a day. Shooting a family of 3 at Costco, no big deal.
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Yeah, losing your s**t and shooting three people in Costco, one to death, is totally understandable while shooting at yourself and lying about it is a firing offense. We (LE) shoot other people, not ourselves.

My opinion only with tongue firmly in cheek
 
jjenny said:
Dollars to donuts, a civilian wouldn't get the same treatment as this cop. Especially in California, not known for being a stand your ground state. He shot three people, 2 of whom didn't assault him. In fact they both say they were begging him not to shoot. Even if he argues self-defense, how would that apply to people who did nothing to him? So why is he not charged? I think pretty clearly because he is a cop.
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I think these questions need to be posed to the DA and LE. They're wasted here.

The government needs to know we want to see accountability. We want transparency and aren't comfortable with keeping evidence hidden from victims and the public while the shooter is able to see it.

We need to be able to figure out if society is being denied justice due to who the shooter is. A lot is at stake.
 
gitana1 said:
I think these questions need to be posed to the DA and LE. They're wasted here.

The government needs to know we want to see accountability. We want transparency and aren't comfortable with keeping evidence hidden from victims and the public while the shooter is able to see it.

We need to be able to figure out if society is being denied justice due to who the shooter is. A lot is at stake.
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I agree with this 100%. I understand withholding vital info while an investigation is in progress but tell us that! Transparency, accountability, responsibility, it doesn't feel to me that any of these are being addressed in this circumstance. Big Brother, LE, do we need to arm ourselves to shop at at a local discount store just in case?
 
SoCalDavidS said:
I think it's important for all of us to know, if someone shoves you and causes you to fall down, do you then have the right to get up off the ground and fire shots in their general direction? Can you only start shooting if you were holding a child when you were knocked to the ground?

In addition, do you only have the right to shoot if your occupation is as a police officer? If I'm not a policeman, but I shout that I am one to the people I'm about to shoot at, does that then give me clearance to fire away?

We need to be aware of the rules which govern our society in the year 2019. You never know when someone is going to try to start something by shoving you, so having the ability to put a few bullets in them without hesitation, could prove to be very helpful in resolving the situation, and keeping oneself safe.
Click to expand...

A Florida jury says no. Pushing someone to the ground does not justifying them shooting you, even one time.

GUILTY - FL - Markeis McGlockton, killed following parking dispute, Clearwater, 19 July 2018
 
Police officers seem to be two types:

1. Sort of "fell" into the job, as a result of military service, a friend referred them, just applied, got the job. These types seem to be more reasonable to me, and less likely to escalate situations.

2. Actively sought police positions, went from security guard, to police position. Applied with several agencies to get hired. Usually expect to be deferred to, escalate situations with demanding actions or attitudes.

This is just based on my experience with police officers and detectives. And federal law enforcement officials.
 
The thing is, policemen are viewed as being honest and always doing the right and lawful thing. But that is more than not, far from the case. People hear police are going to conduct an investigation, and then believe that a 100% legitimate one will be done, when that is often not the case. And when it involves one of their own, it seems to very rarely be the case. More likely that they will rally around and support one of their own. Can you think of any other profession where that happens with such uniformity?

There are good CEO's and bad ones. Good politicians, and corrupt ones. Good police and bad....but the difference is, the bad ones also carry Guns, and have the ability to take a life. One would think they should be held to an even higher standard for that reason alone, not to mention having better ethics than what I mentioned above.
 
SoCalDavidS said:
The thing is, policemen are viewed as being honest and always doing the right and lawful thing. But that is more than not, far from the case. People hear police are going to conduct an investigation, and then believe that a 100% legitimate one will be done, when that is often not the case. And when it involves one of their own, it seems to very rarely be the case. More likely that they will rally around and support one of their own. Can you think of any other profession where that happens with such uniformity?

There are good CEO's and bad ones. Good politicians, and corrupt ones. Good police and bad....but the difference is, the bad ones also carry Guns, and have the ability to take a life. One would think they should be held to an even higher standard for that reason alone, not to mention having better ethics than what I mentioned above.
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I know your question (BBM) is mostly rhetorical, but I can see many parallels with the "circle the wagons" and "nothing to see here" behavior in the wide world of organized religion. But, at least that subset of authoritarian (and perhaps hypocritical, at times), bastion of power doesn't involve permission to use deadly weapons. IMO.
 
drama_farmer said:
I know your question (BBM) is mostly rhetorical, but I can see many parallels with the "circle the wagons" and "nothing to see here" behavior in the wide world of organized religion. But, at least that subset of authoritarian (and perhaps hypocritical, at times), bastion of power doesn't involve permission to use deadly weapons. IMO.
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It is not unlike the situation at the VA system, if you see a problem and say something, you are the problem. Which is probably why police officers who see bad officers, don't say anything or speak up.

And I agree, many times, the line between LEO and criminals is often just circumstances and luck.
 
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