CA CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #5

Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by PommyMommy, Dec 21, 2020.

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  1. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    Boys, 3 and 4, missing from California City | KGET 17

    Police say two boys, ages 3 and 4, have gone missing.

    An employee at the California City Police Department said she hadn’t been told by her lieutenant to release their names.

    [...]

    “2 MISSING MALE JUVENILES, LAST SEEN IN THE 10700 BLOCK OF ASPEN. ” from California City Police Department : Nixle
    TWO MISSING MALE JUVENILES LAST SEEN IN THE 10700 BLOCK OF ASPEN. FIRST WILL BE A BLACK MALE JUVENILE, 3 YEARS OLD, APPROXIMATELY 3 FEET TALL, 30-40 POUNDS, LAST SEEN WEARING A BLACK SWEATSHIRT, GRAY SWEATPANTS. SECOND WILL BE A BLACK MALE JUVENILE, 4 YEARS OLD, APPROXIMATELY 3 FEET TALL, 30-40 POUNDS, LAST SEEN WEARING A BLACK SWEATSHIRT, GRAY SWEATPANTS. IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION OR SEE SUBJECTS MATCHING DESCRIPTION CONTACT THE CALIFORNIA CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, (760) 373-8606.

    10700 block of Aspen Ave - Google Maps

    Case Archive (courtesy of Websleuths member AmandaReconwith)

    MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE THREAD *NO DISCUSSION*


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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2021
    Marg from Oz and melodyl like this.


  2. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There has been absolutely nothing in any approved sources to indicate these boys are disabled.

    Also, discussion about possible financial gain on behalf of the adoptive parents is not victim friendly.

    Posts related to the above have been removed. Please move on from those discussions.
     
    Marg from Oz, DeDee, melodyl and 2 others like this.
  3. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    This thread has become rife with TOS violations.

    Rumors are not allowed. The only information that is allowed for discussion is from MSM, LE, or other WS approved sources. If what you are discussing is not from those approved sources, it is not allowed.

    Sleuthing anyone not officially named by LE as POIs or suspects is not allowed.

    Making insinuations or direct accusations or bashing anyone is not allowed. This includes family. Members may respectfully discuss what is contained in MSM or what has been released by LE or other WS approved sources.

    Only 1 video by the AV group has been allowed because it contains the neighbor’s surveillance video for discussion. Commentary by the hosts is not allowed .. only comments about the surveillance video itself. No other podcast by them has been approved and that decision has not changed.

    This is Tricia's house, Tricia's rules. She would not come to your house and violate your house rules. Please extend her the same courtesy.

    WS has high standards for a reason. If members can't post in accordance with Websleuths Terms of Service, they will be placed on a temporary or permanent thread reply ban, or lose all WS posting privileges entirely.
     
  4. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Thread is open again.

    Remember, "No Link, No Post" !! If members ask for a link and one is not quickly provided, that's the end of that discussion. All responses get removed.

    Sorry that some good posts bit the dust ... hard to remove or edit and retain total context. If something appears a bit wonky, it's because we removed major wonkiness.

    As always, post respectfully and without being antagonistic or snarky; otherwise you may find yourself on the outside looking in.
     
  5. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Hey everyone,

    A word of caution about fundraising sites. I could start a fundraiser under the name Santa Claus ... it does not mean I am Santa Claus or that I need money for sleigh repairs. Unless it is 110% clear that the fundraiser has been established by the case player (i.e. sourced in MSM who have vetted the source and published it in a linked article), it is not allowed for discussion here.

    IF a fundraiser site is genuine (as evidenced via MSM or other approved sources), it may be approved. Always best to private message a Mod or Report on any post to ask if the source is approved, and saves us cleanup of a thread.

    Also note, even if a fundraiser link is allowed, WS does not allow soliciting funds for the fundraiser or suggestions that members contribute. We will however allow discussion of the detailed description used in support of the fundraiser as long as it has been approved.

     
  6. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    Posts discussing a realtor or mortgage broker and the number of children have been removed, along with all responses.

    To clarify ...

    Tricia's podcast is its own social media, separate and apart from this forum. There are times when Tricia will be discussing things on her podcast that are not approved for discussion here on the board. That's what makes her podcast so very interesting.

    IOW, if Tricia is addressing a social media rumor on her podcast, it is not allowed here because it is rumor. The same goes for other podcasts. They are interesting, intriguing, and can be downright Yowza, but not everything is allowed here for discussion.

    Hopefully that is clear. Any questions, please ask them in private message to me.


     
  7. GoneGoldfishin'

    GoneGoldfishin' Well-Known Member

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    With all of the talk about selling and trafficking, I wanted to expand on a post I made earlier about unfortunately having some experience in the re-homing of individuals (neither of these cases are children, but nonverbal adults with severe developmental disabilities). The first was a young lady who lived with her care provider, who billed the maximum respite, hab, and attendant care monthly. The girl's mother claimed she still lived at home, continued to recieve her ssi payments, and claimed her on taxes. The mother simply did not want to care for her anymore, but did not want to give up that check, which would have been taken to offset group home costs. Highly illegal fraud. The second case I cannot get into details of, but in a similar way, it was simply too much trouble for his father and stepmother to take care of him. He also went to live with a care provider on a permanent basis, but nobody is really sure how the financials worked out. In this case, it was highly immoral (again not able to share it all), but the many agencies it was reported to did not seem to be interested in investigating further for fraud.

    In Orson and Orrin's case, since the possibilities of kidnapping or accidental/intentional death seem to be unexplainable due to many posters' excellent reasoning, we are left with them being purposefully removed from the home. In my personal opinion, I feel it is possible the APs never bonded fully with these children, used the income they recieved from adopting them to qualify for the home they purchased, then concocted a plan to have them go missing without having to admit they re-homed them. They would not have to have necessarily "sold" them (although that certainly is still a possibility), just found someone who was more willing to take care of them. I fully admit there are many holes in this theory; but, like others have said, the hope they are still alive really only lies here.
    I'm hoping the electronic trail is being investigated as fully as possible, and something can be pieced together. I really have appreciated Chief Walker's dedication and perseverance on this case. MOO.
     
  8. Emerald1328

    Emerald1328 Well-Known Member

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    I was reading through the link below from California’s Department of Social Services re: foster children and overnight stays:

    https://www.cdss.ca.gov/lettersnotices/EntRes/getinfo/acin/2015/I-28_15.pdf

    Pages 4-6 speak specifically to overnight care:

    A caregiver may arrange for an “occasional short-term babysitter” for a child in foster care. A child in foster care may be babysat for up to 24 hours, including overnight.

    OR

    Occasionally, a caregiver needs or wants to be absent from the home for more than 24 hours. In these situations, a caregiver may use an “alternative caregiver” (a trusted family member, close friend, or neighbor) to care for the child in the caregiver’s home.

    In addition, under the actual code (https://www.cdss.ca.gov/Portals/9/Regs/ffhman3.pdf), it states that if the alternative caregiver is going to be watching the foster child for more than 24 hours, they have to give verbal or written notice to the case worker.

    So, if in fact 2 of the boys are foster children, the parents were breaking the rules by allowing them to stay at grandma’s (versus their own home, as required) for more than 24 hours. Also, did they give notice to the case worker they would be staying there? I can’t imagine this wouldn’t be info they had no knowledge of. So what was so pressing that they broke the rules? Granted, I don’t know what, if any, punishment someone can get by not following these guidelines (revocation of foster home license?) but it certainly is interesting to me.
     
  9. musemoon

    musemoon Well-Known Member

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    If the home is another approved foster home the kids can stay in that person's home as long as they had enough approved beds. I believe the grandparents are also foster parents. It would have had to be cleared with the social worker, but they'd probably allow it because the grandparents (I believe) are foster parents, however, who knows...really.
     
  10. LucyOso

    LucyOso Verified Registered Nurse

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    There is also respite care as well. This is used frequently in all foster situations for children and adults when caregivers need a much deserved break or child/adult needs more intensive therapeutic care.
     
  11. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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    FEB 3, 2021
    Biological mother of Orrin and Orson West shares photos and memories of them, her family holds prayer service in Bakersfield | KGET 17
    [...]

    We’ve searched several different places of possible grave sites,” said Chief of Police Jon Walker. “I think in the last week we’ve dug up a coyote, a dog, and three sheep.”

    [...]

    “Not that we haven’t searched there already, we’re out on the lake in central park on boats looking again for people who give us tips that they’ve seen bodies in the lake,” Chief Walker said. “I don’t discourage those tips at all. Please send them in because we will go out if we can and do a followup when we do.”

    [...]

    Ryan Dean – the biological mother of Orrin and Orson West – also came [to the vigil] to pray. She says she last saw her boys in 2018 around Christmas time. She told 17News about some memories she has with them. She says Orrin loves music and used to love taking pictures with her. But in recent visits, he didn’t want to be in photos. She says Orson would always climb on her, and he loves food. Whenever they played together, he would try to eat the toys shaped as food.

    [...]
     
  12. Eloise

    Eloise Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where to find this info now but pretty sure it was confirmed very early on that the respective bio dads were always completely uninvolved in the boys' lives.
     
  13. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    The Chief is now referring to possible grave sites...

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  14. LucyOso

    LucyOso Verified Registered Nurse

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    Respectfully snipped and BBM. Thank you for the update! I guess they have searched the lake? I cant imagine they had dive teams out there and no-one has mentioned it in MSM. Tips from people who have seen bodies in the lake? Is that another way of saying people have phoned in suggesting they do a lake search? I am so confused. Usually with missing kids and a nearby body of water they will start searching there right away...
     
  15. Lusitana

    Lusitana Well-Known Member

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    This was probably already discussed and I missed it, but did the neighbors’ camera ever picked up Orson and Orrin?
     
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  16. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    To the best of my knowledge, the (alleged) four (only) children getting in the family van have never been mentioned by name. We don’t know if Orrin or Orson were amongst them. I haven’t heard of any confirmed sitings of the boys in Cal City; no.

    I found the post upthread stating the bio Mom said one of the boys would always try to eat toys shaped as food very sad. Clearly a hungry child, or attempting to self sooth maybe due to teething, etc.

    It seems these two children were brought in to the world to be consistently failed by the adults in their lives, including those in government appointed jobs whose sole responsibility is to insure their safety.
    But really, this is a societal fail, and a disgrace. We must, and can do better for our vulnerable citizens.

    amateur opinion and speculation
     
  17. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    Unless she offered to take in the two boys and care for them, I’m not interested in what she has to say.

    amateur opinion and speculation
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2021
  18. Bbybluz

    Bbybluz Well-Known Member

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    I hate to say it & all MOO but can it also be “busy work”? I have been a fan of Chief Jon Walker’s from day one but too many conclusions in my head start pointing to this.
     
  19. Rachelj1

    Rachelj1 Well-Known Member

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    It is absolutely heartbreaking they are literally looking for grave sites. 2 people know where these boys are . This is insanity that these little boys have not been found yet . JW and TW I truly believe know a lot more than they are letting out.

    I hope the public quickly understands that they aren’t afraid to talk ... they are choosing not to talk!!!!! People protect their neighborhood in general and get upset when people come snooping ! It has nothing to do with them telling where the boys are .

    moo
     
  20. Rachelj1

    Rachelj1 Well-Known Member

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    How heartbreaking is that ?? Those poor boys !!!!
     
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