Still Missing CA - Orson & Orrin West (3&4), California City, 21 Dec 2020 #6 *both parents arrested/charged*

[Chocoholic]

That includes 62,000 runaways and, more incidentally, 7 missing after a catastrophe of some kind:
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/missing/children/ch-ann-reports-2020.pdf

A much smaller percent are still missing.
41,000 of those children returned on their own
14,000 were returned by law enforcement
1200 were arrested
and nearly 400 reports were withdrawn by the reporting party, which would include things like miscommunication or a lost child found by family or friends
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/missing/children/ch-status-reports-2020.pdf

Also, as you consider those statistics keep in mind that there are more children in California then there are total people in 40 states.

Thanks for breaking that down, makes me feel a little better.

I’ve seen several posts with the opinion that the boys were sold, or something similar. I agree that it’s an option. With so much publicity on this case, I do wonder what would happen if this was some underhanded adoption to a loving family. But then I start thinking that if that was the case someone would have come forward by now. I suppose I think that in a best case situation, the receiving party might not be prosecuted. Maybe that’s just my view through my rose colored lenses.

 

[whatiknow]

Thanks for breaking that down, makes me feel a little better.

I’ve seen several posts with the opinion that the boys were sold, or something similar. I agree that it’s an option. With so much publicity on this case, I do wonder what would happen if this was some underhanded adoption to a loving family. But then I start thinking that if that was the case someone would have come forward by now. I suppose I think that in a best case situation, the receiving party might not be prosecuted. Maybe that’s just my view through my rose colored lenses.

Unfortunately I agree that someone would have come forward already. If they are alive they are not in good hands, but I don't think they are alive.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Reporter Pearla (who like Byan is excellent!), couldn’t find any concrete proof of employment for either adoptive parent.

Six kids....six. How do you do that without working? How were they able to adopt children without an income stream?
Were children their “business?” We need to better understand how people who don’t work (?) are able to adopt/foster children.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Megnut]

Reporter Pearla (who like Byan is excellent!), couldn’t find any concrete proof of employment for either adoptive parent.

Six kids....six. How do you do that without working? How were they able to adopt children without an income stream?
Were children their “business?” We need to better understand how people who don’t work (?) are able to adopt/foster children.

amateur opinion and speculation

Solid question. My guess, because getting them fast-tracked into a prescreened home probably took precedence over income sourcing.

With potentially deadly results.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Reporter Pearla (who like Byan is excellent!), couldn’t find any concrete proof of employment for either adoptive parent.

Six kids....six. How do you do that without working? How were they able to adopt children without an income stream?
Were children their “business?” We need to better understand how people who don’t work (?) are able to adopt/foster children.

amateur opinion and speculation

If it were an income stream to foster kids, what would be the incentive to adopt them? After adoption, the financial support for the children would be solely the parents' responsibility, right?

jmo

 

[Megnut]

If it were an income stream to foster kids, what would be the incentive to adopt them? After adoption, the financial support for the children would be solely the parents' responsibility, right?

jmo

Discussed at length in earlier threads, adoption of sibling groups in CA can qualify for adoption assistance, similar to adoptions with children with special (medical) needs.

Just my opinion, as I understand it.

California State Adoption Assistance Program

 

[Inthedetails]

Discussed at length in earlier threads, adoption of sibling groups in CA can qualify for adoption assistance, similar to adoptions with children with special (medical) needs.

Just my opinion, as I understand it.

California State Adoption Assistance Program

Sorry, I haven't been following from the start.

 

[Megnut]

Sorry, I haven't been following from the start.

No disparage intended! I was merely pulling consensus forward because it wasn't my discovery!

It really is perplexing -- and disturbing --

JMO

 

[Ksprincess2]

If it were an income stream to foster kids, what would be the incentive to adopt them? After adoption, the financial support for the children would be solely the parents' responsibility, right?

jmo

I know a couple who adopted from foster care in Kansas who received $500 a month per child in adoption subsidies and the kids got state health insurance coverage until they were 18. So I would assume that since cost of living is higher in California that a monthly adoption subsidy could be much higher there. Although I know how much you receive per child depends a great deal on the child's needs and how long they've been in foster care. So you would get a lot more per month for a child with special needs who has been in foster care for a long time than for a young, healthy toddler.

 

[Megnut]

I know a couple who adopted from foster care in Kansas who received $500 a month per child in adoption subsidies and the kids got state health insurance coverage until they were 18. So I would assume that since cost of living is higher in California that a monthly adoption subsidy could be much higher there. Although I know how much you receive per child depends a great deal on the child's needs and how long they've been in foster care. So you would get a lot more per month for a child with special needs who has been in foster care for a long time than for a young, healthy toddler.

I think something very similar to your example did happen in this case. Possibly monthly money and medical care.

From what I read above (on California's adoption subsidy site), sibling group adoptions fall under the same provision as special needs adoptions.

I don't know that anyone could have foreseen the disappearance of these two boys....

But it's beyond heart-breaking to think they may have been placed in harm's way.

Whoever's ultimately at fault, it really just feels like the whole village failed these precious babies.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

Reporter Pearla (who like Byan is excellent!), couldn’t find any concrete proof of employment for either adoptive parent.

Six kids....six. How do you do that without working? How were they able to adopt children without an income stream?
Were children their “business?” We need to better understand how people who don’t work (?) are able to adopt/foster children.

amateur opinion and speculation

The "justification" for "adoption grants" are that adoption was reserved only for the wealthy who could afford to pay the expenses for a child. It was considered "discrimination" against people without financial resources who couldn't afford to adopt children. This grant was supposed to make it easier for everyone to adopt harder to place children.

But, as we see here, it also became a vehicle for folks to get financial assistance/income without working.

 

[Rachelj1]

These poor little boys should of woken up to Easter baskets and hugs . I do believe that 2 people have karma coming to them . It’s just a matter of time .
Moo

 

[Beans]

The incentive to adopt (rather than continue to foster) may be something as simple as less oversight and monitoring from the relevant child protection / social authorities? Once the legal status has changed, it sounds like there might not be much involvement from authorities at all.

 

[MoeInVA]

While I understand it, it’s still frustrating how long these cases take. Especially if the siblings are still in foster care.

That’s the worst part. Even if say Grandma had called the cops, a lot of times this is how it works. The kids are Re-traumatized, Re-victimized, feel punished. Taken from all the people they know into CPS custody because the parents need their due process. Very difficult situations. Argh. So terrible.

 

[FlossyMay]

Maybe the adoptive parents were/are on unemployment due to covid.

 

[whatiknow]

The "justification" for "adoption grants" are that adoption was reserved only for the wealthy who could afford to pay the expenses for a child. It was considered "discrimination" against people without financial resources who couldn't afford to adopt children. This grant was supposed to make it easier for everyone to adopt harder to place children.

But, as we see here, it also became a vehicle for folks to get financial assistance/income without working.

Some adoption grants are described with that justification because of the over-inflated expenses for adopting a newborn. That's different than the monthly benefit the West family likely received.

The adoption assistance program is not about discrimination against potential adoptive parents. It was designed to encourage permanency/stability for foster children. The problem was that parents were fostering kids for years and treating them as family but felt unable to adopt them because they couldn't afford all their expenses. Just the continuance of medical care was huge. The monthly benefit is rarely as much as foster payments but that eligibility is usually enough for a family concerned about the financial impact to move toward adoption. The grants are supposed to make it easier for all foster families to adopt harder to place children but because it's better (generally) for the children not for the parents.

It is unfortunate that it has become a vehicle for people to get financial assistance/income without even the oversight that comes with foster care.

Families are still supposed to show that they have sufficient income for their own expenses though. Unless the Wests have lost/quit jobs since the adoptions (and assuming the unclarified set of siblings were not still in foster care), someone failed in their screening duties.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Didn't tw work in the family ice cream buisness ? I thought I read that early on jmoo

 

[rosesfromangels]

Didn't tw work in the family ice cream buisness ? I thought I read that early on jmoo

Reporter Perla S. found that he had been associated with an Ice Cream business, but specifics of when, etc. had not been discovered. Perla could find no employment associated with JW. Source: Perla video Q&A posted upthread.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Dre]

I think something very similar to your example did happen in this case. Possibly monthly money and medical care.

From what I read above (on California's adoption subsidy site), sibling group adoptions fall under the same provision as special needs adoptions.

I don't know that anyone could have foreseen the disappearance of these two boys....

But it's beyond heart-breaking to think they may have been placed in harm's way.

Whoever's ultimately at fault, it really just feels like the whole village failed these precious babies.

JMO

wait so... adopting 2 sets of brothers would bring in extra extra money?
would that mean fostering brothers would also likely bring in extra money?
would fostering brothers make more for the family than if they had been adopted?

yikes

 

[whatiknow]

wait so... adopting 2 sets of brothers would bring in extra extra money?
would that mean fostering brothers would also likely bring in extra money?
would fostering brothers make more for the family than if they had been adopted?

yikes

That depends on what you mean by "extra extra money." Adopting two different sets of brothers wouldn't bring a higher adoption assistance payment per child but that would make children from both sets eligible for some assistance. Payments are not guaranteed with every child that falls under the criteria and the amount varies based each child's needs.

Fostering sibling sets doesn't bring in extra money. The point of the adoption assistance is to encourage families to adopt so children are not in foster care until they turn 18. There are criteria for what makes a child harder to adopt. Keeping siblings together is just one criteria. One of the criteria for eligibility is that social workers have searched for and been unable to find another adoptive home for the child but that can be waived if it is considered "not in the best interest of the child." It is always waived when a child is considered to have bonded with a foster family that says they will adopt with AAP.

Foster children get more money than adopted children except when the child has extreme special needs. The adoption assistance payments cannot be more than a foster payment but they are rarely close to the same amount. Children eligible because they are older or siblings get much less than a child with special needs. Foster children continue to be monitored by social workers. Adopted children are not.