Found Deceased CA - Rachel Nguyen, 20, & Joseph Orbeso, 21, Joshua Tree Nat'l Park, 27 July 2017 #2

[Force Ten]

Capebluff,

As I indicated in the full post you quoted from, yes - I've camped in JT. I brought no weapons, it never occurred to me to do so. My point is, It's Joshua Tree, it's not Glacier - so my remarks are confined to the context of _this_ situation.

Delighted you addressed this question in T1. Sounds like it wasn't resolved, or perhaps it hadn't yet surfaced that Joseph exercised his 2nd Amendment right by committing homicide, then suicide. So I assume you're not offended by re-visiting the question.

Last, if it makes any difference to you, I'm an ardent 2nd Amendment supporter. So I support your right. I don't support premeditated murder, and I think it's fair to have questions about why a weapon was taken out on a simple day-hike, then used later in a murder suicide under circumstances that strike me as questionable.

Cheers -

Infidell

Being that they were both gun enthusiasts, he probably initially brought it on the trip to fire off rounds somewhere at some point. I think it's highly probable he did not want to leave it at the Airbnb (some owners might not be on the up n up) and definitely not in her car. It makes total sense to me for him to have had his gun with him.


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[mister happy]

Some folks are saying the couple just broke up, so Joseph could've been distraught, and planned a murder/suicide. But according to Rachel's family, they had dated briefly two years ago, but remained friends afterwards.

 

[yukoncornelius]

As far as I am aware, only Austin Young, Joseph's childhood friend, has mentioned Rachel having a stalker. He stated that was the reason Joseph brought the gun on the trip. He was either told that by Joseph or is making it up. I don't believe a family member or anyone else associated with the tragedy has mentioned that Rachel had a stalker.

I am skeptical of the stalker scenario since Austin Young has also stated he did not want to see Joseph go down as a murderer. I believe that is his motivation for the stalker scenario, but hopefully investigators will be able to make a final determination as to whether or not a stalker was involved.

In any event, Joseph apparently thought the stalker might be on the trail during their morning hike, so he brought the gun along. Does that make any sense? He specifically, according to what we are being told, brought the gun along because of a stalker.

My point is that all family and close friends are pushing any outcome other than murder/suicide. There is already tremendous pain involved for both sides as is. Both families have suffered a tremendous loss. Mercy/suicide is a much more palatable outcome for the families, which I understand. The truth may be much different, however. I am torn on this because if both families are content with the mercy/suicide scenario, is further investigation even warranted?

 

[Capebluff]

As far as I am aware, only Austin Young, Joseph's childhood friend, has mentioned Rachel having a stalker. He stated that was the reason Joseph brought the gun on the trip. He was either told that by Joseph or is making it up. I don't believe a family member or anyone else associated with the tragedy has mentioned that Rachel had a stalker.

I am skeptical of the stalker scenario since Austin Young has also stated he did not want to see Joseph go down as a murderer. I believe that is his motivation for the stalker scenario, but hopefully investigators will be able to make a final determination as to whether or not a stalker was involved.

In any event, Joseph apparently thought the stalker might be on the trail during their morning hike, so he brought the gun along. Does that make any sense? He specifically, according to what we are being told, brought the gun along because of a stalker.

My point is that all family and close friends are pushing any outcome other than murder/suicide. There is already tremendous pain involved for both sides as is. Both families have suffered a tremendous loss. Mercy/suicide is a much more palatable outcome for the families, which I understand. The truth may be much different, however. I am torn on this because if both families are content with the mercy/suicide scenario, is further investigation even warranted?

Orbeso brought along the gun to protect Nguyen from a stalker, Orbeso's parents said, citing information in an email from a third party.

Link: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...heir-Lives-Authorities-Believe-452126993.html

I don’t know how much weight I put into the stalker story. This article states it was mentioned by Joseph’s parents who only ‘know’ of it via an email from a third party. There could have been some miscommunication/misinterpretation in said email, for all we know. It’s really hard to say.

IF there was a stalker, it’s possible Joseph had the gun during their trip just in case. Not that he specifically expected to cross paths with this stalker at JTNP. But, very likely he didn’t want to leave it behind at the Airbnb unaccompanied.

 

[Detectivediva]

yukoncornelius;13707183]I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are favoring the mercy/suicide scenario. I can't recall any other mercy/suicides outside of those involving terminally ill elderly people. At a certain point, probability and statistics have to come in to play.

Murder/suicide is a more likely scenario IMO.

I couldn't agree more. I have worked very with young adults for 15 + years. They think they are invincible. No way that Rachel (unless drugged) would give up and agreed to be shot.

I honestly think the sheriff told her parents that theory because #1... it's not like they can prosecute him. He is obviously no longer living. Second, they know the devotion the father put into finding him. They obviously have a good relationship with him and think he's a good guy. I'm sure he is. The only 'right' thing to do in their opinion is to put out the theory that this was a 'mercy' type situation. All of us realist know that that is absolutely ridiculous. But, if it helps them to feel better then I guess what harm is there, really?

 

[Force Ten]

I couldn't agree more. I have worked very with young adults for 15 + years. They think they are invincible. No way that Rachel (unless drugged) would give up and agreed to be shot.

I honestly think the sheriff told her parents that theory because #1... it's not like they can prosecute him. He is obviously no longer living. Second, they know the devotion the father put into finding him. They obviously have a good relationship with him and think he's a good guy. I'm sure he is. The only 'right' thing to do in their opinion is to put out the theory that this was a 'mercy' type situation. All of us realist know that that is absolutely ridiculous. But, if it helps them to feel better then I guess what harm is there, really?

Respectfully, I disagree. LE isn't going to sugarcoat their findings. They will report it exactly how they believe it happened.


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[yukoncornelius]

The official press release from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept. does not make any statement regarding mercy/suicide or murder/suicide.

From the press release:
Based on evidence located at the scene, detectives believe Orbeso shot Nguyen, then shot himself. The investigation into Orbeso’s actions remain under investigation.

 

[whitelilac]

They had also planned to go hiking with a group of friends.
It's tragic that the others didn't end up going.

If Rachel was hurt in a fall, and they were lost and out of water, there's no question that they were in very serious trouble. The desert is unforgiving and dehydration is a slow and painful way to die.

 

[Force Ten]

The official press release from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept. does not make any statement regarding mercy/suicide or murder/suicide.

From the press release:
Based on evidence located at the scene, detectives believe Orbeso shot Nguyen, then shot himself. The investigation into Orbeso’s actions remain under investigation.

Yes, the report will be cut and dry. But here is a snip from one of the latest reports.

" They say the sheriff's department told them their son did it to put an end to their suffering and are upset the press release didn't reflect that. They want people to know it wasn't murder it was an act of mercy."

http://www.kmir.com/story/36648617/...on-killed-friend-and-himself-to-end-suffering

I know it's not a direct quote from LE, but I doubt the father would lie about it.



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[Livefortheday99]

I think that Rachel fell and injured herself where they were found. Joseph stayed with her until he became too weak from dehydration and couldn’t make it out even if he wanted to. With a head injury she might not have been conscious at the time he shot her them himself. It’s horribly sad but I truly believe it was a mercy killing/suicide.

 

[yukoncornelius]

Yes, the report will be cut and dry. But here is a snip from one of the latest reports.

" They say the sheriff's department told them their son did it to put an end to their suffering and are upset the press release didn't reflect that. They want people to know it wasn't murder it was an act of mercy."

http://www.kmir.com/story/36648617/...on-killed-friend-and-himself-to-end-suffering

I know it's not a direct quote from LE, but I doubt the father would lie about it.



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My take is that the Orbeso family likely brought that up first (that their son did it to put an end to their suffering), possibly asking if that was a possibility based on what the investigators knew, and the investigators likely agreed that it was one of several scenarios that would be looked into further.

Both families have seemingly latched on to that scenario and I don't blame them one bit (even if I may not agree at this point).

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is not about 2nd Amendment rights or gun control.

Please discuss the case and stay on topic.

Thanks.

 

[Dixie811]

IMO if the shooting was out of mercy/desperation, they (or at least Rachel) were already half dead. It’s not as though anyone is suggesting that they decided to give up and end it all 1 hour after they got lost.

I cannot imagine what a slow death in the desert would be like. And I imagine that 5 minutes of dying that slow, painful, death would feel like 5 years.

 

[2bees]

The official press release from the San Bernardino Sheriff's Dept. does not make any statement regarding mercy/suicide or murder/suicide.

From the press release:
Based on evidence located at the scene, detectives believe Orbeso shot Nguyen, then shot himself. The investigation into Orbeso’s actions remain under investigation.

Quote from SBCSD spokeswoman...

Cindy Bachman, a spokeswoman for the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department, told KABC that detectives believe the couple may have perceived they had no way out.

"They have nothing to suggest that Joseph had any intent to harm Rachel -- just that they probably found themselves in a very dire situation," Bachman told the TV station.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...a-joshua-tree-missing-couple-found/index.html

 

[Dixie811]

Thanks for posting that @2bees. I knew I’d seen that said by a rep for LE somewhere.

 

[cvaldez1975]

She could have been pushed for all we know. Even after the investigation is complete, we may never know what really happened.

True. But to me nothing points to anything weird on his end.


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[Seajay]

https://www.nps.gov/grca/learn/management/upload/Firearms-in-IMRparks2-2010.pdf

This says it was legal for Jospeh to carry his weapon into a national park, but not if he were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.

Because of the hallucinations found at the AirBnB, he may have gotten in some trouble if he were caught. Not that it matters now.

But what if the shooting itself happened because one or both of them were high? Guess toxology reports I'll clear that up. FWIW.

 

[Force Ten]

“We’re humbled and grateful for the outpouring of love and support from the public,” Nguyen said. “We thank God that we’ll be able to give Rachel a proper burial and lay her to rest.”

He added: “Her parents … and myself are united, believing in the detective’s accounts of this being a sympathetic murder-suicide. We hold no grudges against Joseph or the Orbeso family.”

“We extend our heartfelt condolences to the Orbeso Family, and they will remain in our prayers,” Nguyen said.

http://www.desertsun.com/story/news...cide-uncle-says-we-hold-no-grudges/787476001/

 

[Force Ten]

I keep thinking about all of it and I can't help to wonder if it can get any sadder. Two out for adventure and discovery. Two lives terribly lost. Two families grieving.

RIP Joseph and Rachel.

 

[tarabull]

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/survivalist