CA - San Mateo Co., Child Skull UP9597, 5-7, on beach near San Gregorio, Mar'06

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Wanting2Help, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Wanting2Help

    Wanting2Help New Member

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    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597

    This was just recently listed in NamUs

    Case Report - NamUs UP # 9597
    Status: Unidentified

    Case number 06-0797
    Date found March 26, 2006 at 12:00 AM
    Date created December 11, 2011 at 06:14 PM
    Date last modified December 13, 2011 at 03:26 AM

    Local Medical Examiner/Coroner Contact
    Agency San Mateo Cnty Coroners Ofc
    Phone 650-312-5562
    Email rfoucrault@co.sanmateo.ca.us

    Case Manager
    Name Kristine Gamble
    Email kgamble@smcgov.org

    Estimated age: PreAdolescent
    Minimum age 5 years
    Maximum age 7 years
    Race: Unsure
    Sex: Unsure
    Weight (pounds) , Cannot Estimate
    Height (inches) , Cannot Estimate

    Body Parts Inventory:
    Head not recovered
    Torso not recovered
    One or more limbs not recovered
    One or both hands not recovered

    Notes on body parts recovered: Skeletal remains found - zygoma, maxilla and teeth
    Body condition: Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Circumstances:
    Location Found: On beach between San Gregorio and Pomponio Beach
    San Gregorio, California
    County: San Mateo

    Circumstances of death: A portion of a childs' skull (zygoma, maxilla and teeth) were found on a stretch of beach between San Gregorio and Pomponio beach by a citizen.

    Physical
    Hair color: Unknown or Completely Bald
    Head hair: Unknown
    Body hair: Unknown
    Facial hair: Unknown
    Eye color: Unknown or Missing

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No other distinctive body features
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Skeletal remains - no fingerprints available

    No clothing or accessories
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Clothing on body: None
    Clothing with body: None
    Footwear: None
    Jewelry: None
    Eyewear: None
    Other items found with body: None

    Dental information / charting below (see link)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    X-rays available
    Photographs available

    One or more teeth present
    Baby/primary teeth present
    Upper jaw present

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    DNA
    Complete and entered
    Type: nucDNA
    Location CA DOJ (Jan Bashinski Laboratory)
    Reference # BK-06-000481-0001
     
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  3. Wanting2Help

    Wanting2Help New Member

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  4. Sleuthnewbie

    Sleuthnewbie New Member

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    There's a fair amount of possibilities, but I did notice Alexis Hernandez as well is a good possibility. That's the closest one that I could find within the age range and in proximity to where the skull was discovered.

    Postmortem interval is listed as years, however. That really opens up the list of possibilities in terms of time and geographic location.
     
  5. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Just an FYI:

    There is a question whether or not the DNA status in the NamUs case file on this case is accurate. NamUS states DNA is on file, however the coroners office indicates that is inaccurate and NO dna was obtained.

    We are trying to determine the current status of DNA for this set of remains and will update when that information becomes available.

    Anna Waters has been submitted as a possible match for this case. The location these remains were found is very near where Anna disappeared.

    Annasmom is aware this potential match has been submitted and we are awaiting information on the DNA status as posted above.

    Hopefully it won't be long before we can determine whether DNA is available or not.


    The discussion for "unidentified" possible matches for Anna can be found here:


    CA CA - Possible matches for: Anna Christian Waters, 5, Half Moon Bay, 1973 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
     
  6. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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  7. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    A snippet from a post of Dr. Doogie's in the possible match thread for Anna Waters to NamUs 9597. I thought I would add this info here as well.

    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Have we found Anna? Possible match to NamUs case #9597



    This pretty much confirms the DNA info in the NamUs case file is in fact inaccurate.

    Carl, I noticed Alexandra is not listed in NamUs. You might want to call and advise the coroner of this possible match.

    Also, with Alexandra. She was a month shy of turning 5 when she disappeared which is close to the age range of 5-7 listed at NamUs.

    hth

    ETA: I just looked and Alexandra Flores is not listed in NCMEC either. I doubt the coroner would know about Charley Project, so you might want to call this one in Carl. Also, from Alexandra's photo. Hard to tell if the pinkish red area is missing teeth which might match the dentals listed at NamUs, or if that is a red stain from a drink, or just a poor quality photo. Whatever the case, I recommend advising the coroner of this one. Especially if dentals can be obtained on Alexandra for a quick rule in or rule out.
     
  8. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye New Member

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  9. smile22

    smile22 Live Laugh Love

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  10. eileenhawkeye

    eileenhawkeye New Member

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    I didn't mention Anna in my post because she was already mentioned by someone else.
     
  11. Wanting2Help

    Wanting2Help New Member

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  12. Wanting2Help

    Wanting2Help New Member

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    As of 12/13/2011 there are 4 rule outs listed...

    James Bordenkircher 1963 California
    Todd Collett 1960 California
    Sir-Kristopher Marshall 1973 California
    Fannie Stuart 1976 California
     
  13. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    Many know that we submitted Anna Waters as a possible match for this UID back in early January.

    Most recently Dr. Doogie updated indicating the dna is still in the waiting process.

    Now, what brings me back to this thread. Doogie informed us the CA-DOJ sent the remains to a private lab. When Doogie recently followed up with the San Mateo County case manager, he was informed the DOJ is still waiting for results.

    Carl, do you happen to know what the standard chain of command is with the CA-DOJ when remains are sent to a private lab? Is it usual the CA-DOJ is the main contact for ME's in CA when remains are sent to a private lab? If you don't know can you inquire the next time you have to call a CA ME regarding a case?

    It just makes no sense to me that the county ME office would not be in direct contact with the private lab. Other than perhaps that is how it is done in CA, all contact through the DOJ versus a private lab having hundreds of possible contacts throughout all CA counties.

    Also, is it usual for them to say no known time for results when the average time is 2-3 mo's? I'm not accustomed to having no estimated time frame, when usually we are given some kind of time frame, or are given some kind of information on what might be causing delays on the usual 2-3 mo average time frame.

    TIA!
     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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    I don't know the answer to your question, but I will ask if I have another contact on a CA case.
     
  15. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    :bump:

    Bumping as Carl has found some new info/possibilities for this UID.

    Carl, can you please bring the new info here to this thread?

    tia!
     
  16. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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    I just noticed that two new San Mateo County UID cases were added last month to NamUs:

    One from Jan 1975, the torso and upper legs of a 7 to 8 year old Male, found 250 yards south of the Point Montara Light House.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/10639

    The second from Dec 1977, the torso and upper legs of a 10 to 20 year old male (possibly white) found in the same place - the Point Montara Light House.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/10640

    I wonder if this skull fragment found in Mar 2006 that is currently being compared to Anna is related to one of these two headless torsos found less than 20 miles away.

    https://identifyus.org/cases/9597
     
  17. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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  18. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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    Done. See posts above (copied from AC Waters thread in the MP forum).
     
  19. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    thank you Carl. I think the only possible that may belong to this case is the first one you mentioned, the 5-7 yr old male remains (torso and partial legs). However, if you look at that case file it reads No DNA, dna not collected. Well, dna was not collectable in 1975 when these remains were found..... What that case does not read is DNA submitted profile not comparable or insufficient. I forget exactly how it is worded at namus....

    Kind of hard to determine just what San Mateo is doing other than entering into NamUs. It's hard to determine if and when they might be trying to get some dna profiles on some of these UID's.


    I do want to keep an eye on 10639. Clearly if these belong to the same person as NamUs 9597 then they are not Anna...

    Thank you very much for bringing this to our attention!
     
  20. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Moderator

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    I agree that the other two cases are probably unrelated to the skull fragment. I just found it strange that three torsos (with legs, but no heads or arms) of young males were found in the same area.
     
  21. Cubby

    Cubby fly the W!

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    As for the find in the immediate area. We know of a shipwreck that is buried under the sand in this general vicinity. I'd have to search for it again, but every so often remains are found and from this 'beach cemetary' for lack of a better description. I've found it researching skeletal remains for that particular area...

    With all due respect to the San Mateo coroners office, which I don't know much about, from the outside it appears they are in the process of entering their uid's into NamUs.... at what stages they are doing more than data entry into NamUs, IDK.

    We can consider ship wrecks as there is fishing off the coast in this area. We can also consider those not reported missing, and perhaps even partial remains that remain unidentified for victims which do not appear as being missing because partial remains were already located and id'd ( think of those identified from 911, lots of partial remains exist for those already id'd. Though in the San Mateo area we clearly wouldn't have such tiny fragments....)

    I very much appreciate your sharing this info with us working Anna's case, Carl, because one of the things Dr. Doogie and I have researched and continue to do so as time permits is the possibility of excluding Anna (unofficially) based on examples such as that of the torso for the young 7-8 yr old male you recently found.

    Thanks again!
     

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