CA CA - Westlake Village, HispFem 18-30, UP11249, pregnant, in parking lot, Jul'80

[Tired Professor]

She may have been a prostitute... BUT i think he may be intentionally "forgetting" because she was likely well underage! and i am thinking he KNEW she was very very young... He could get in trouble for even statutory rape. And even being 5 months she may have not even known. <modsnip - off topic>

Excellent point! I am thinking that she looks around 21-23 years old , but she could have been quite a bit younger. That would also explain the lack of being forthcoming of details.

 

[Springrain]

Totally agree! Being that the baby’s father was from an area fairly close to Tiny Naylor’s there maybe some element of truth to that. You also brought up a good point about him being more forthcoming about Shirley than Lyra Jade. On that note, it doesn’t sound like the baby’s father was very forthcoming about her either. I guess it really could be that he had a lot of hook ups he doesn’t remember. I’m wondering if maybe she was brought here illegally and was a victim of human trafficking or was prostituting herself. I honestly hope not, I would like to think she had a good life up until Chouest.

The fact that she had a lot of dental work, was generally healthy, and had received prenatal care really makes me hold out hope that she had at least an okay life. I truly hope she had happiness and good moments. She seemed to take care of herself and her unborn baby. I wish her baby's father had more info. He could have been a huge help but, for whatever reason (whether due to just not remembering, omitting information or what) cannot be. I hate the thought that the two men we know to be linked to her just want to poof her away, it seems. She was a person. She had, and still has, value.

 

[Friday Fan]

IMO: I think the father is gradually revealing more details. He gave an address where he was living and recently Det. Rhods gave a general location for where our Jane Doe likely resided. It was about 1 mile or so from where the father was residing. We also know that he was married at the time.

 

[Springrain]

And even being 5 months she may have not even known.

RSBM~

This is a good point that I had not considered. She was super petite, both height and weight-wise. She was halfway through her pregnancy, but was still very slim. It's possible she wasn't showing and had irregular periods anyway. The thing that makes me lean against this is that it was noted she had adequate prenatal care, but maybe that just meant she and baby were healthy.

I have known women who were pregnant but you couldn't tell at all until 6/7 months in when the bump "popped" all of a sudden.

 

[CarlK90245]

RSBM~

This is a good point that I had not considered. She was super petite, both height and weight-wise. She was halfway through her pregnancy, but was still very slim. It's possible she wasn't showing and had irregular periods anyway. The thing that makes me lean against this is that it was noted she had adequate prenatal care, but maybe that just meant she and baby were healthy.

I have known women who were pregnant but you couldn't tell at all until 6/7 months in when the bump "popped" all of a sudden.

Regarding the photos I have, one of them is the full-body version of the crime scene facial photo that has been shown publicly, and her pregnancy certainly wasn't obvious to the casual observer.

 

[Friday Fan]

RSBM~

This is a good point that I had not considered. She was super petite, both height and weight-wise. She was halfway through her pregnancy, but was still very slim. It's possible she wasn't showing and had irregular periods anyway. The thing that makes me lean against this is that it was noted she had adequate prenatal care, but maybe that just meant she and baby were healthy.

I have known women who were pregnant but you couldn't tell at all until 6/7 months in when the bump "popped" all of a sudden.

I used to work in newborn nursery. You cannot tell at 5 months whether a woman had prenatal care, unless you have access to medical records. (And we would not have access to those unless we knew who she was. )


They just noted that her fetus was healthy. Prenatal care is not required for a healthy fetus. The odds are: She knew she was pregnant.

She appeared to be healthy. She probably had an unremarkable pregnancy and was fine wearing high heels. She was "youthful". (IOW: Her pregnancy at 4.5 months did not seem to be a "burden" like it is for us "old folks" or young folks with pre-existing health conditions)

Height: 5'1" to 5'3"
Weight: 110 to 115 lbs.
If her pre-pregnancy weight was 100 -105 pounds, this would be slightly less than average weight gain for 4.5 month pregnancy.
Most weight is gained at the end.

I was 4'11 and 92 pounds at my first prenatal visit with my first child. I weighed almost 130 at the end. I eventually got down to 105. I weighed about 125 pounds at the end of my second pregnancy.

She still had quite a ways to go. The odds are: She knew she was pregnant. Most women do!! She had a pregnancy that wasn't causing her to gain a bunch of weight and still allowed her to wear what appear to be 3 inch heels. I don't believe her red corduroy plants were maternity. Her weight gain was somewhat less than average, but I don't read too much into it. Lower weight gain is often a youthful trait, but that does not mean that she was "underage".

BTW: I was born in 1956. (24 in 1980) I think Lyra Jade was a few years younger than me. Maybe 18-20 yo..JMO...Based on her height, weight and what she was wearing.

 

[Springrain]

Regarding the photos I have, one of them is the full-body version of the crime scene facial photo that has been shown publicly, and her pregnancy certainly wasn't obvious to the casual observer.

Thanks for the insight!

I used to work in newborn nursery. You cannot tell at 5 months whether a woman had prenatal care, unless you have access to medical records. (And we would not have access to those unless we knew who she was. )


They just noted that her fetus was healthy. Prenatal care is not required for a healthy fetus. The odds are: She knew she was pregnant.

She appeared to be healthy. She probably had an unremarkable pregnancy and was fine wearing high heels. She was "youthful". (IOW: Her pregnancy at 4.5 months did not seem to be a "burden" like it is for us "old folks" or young folks with pre-existing health conditions)

Height: 5'1" to 5'3"
Weight: 110 to 115 lbs.
If her pre-pregnancy weight was 100 -105 pounds, this would be slightly less than average weight gain for 4.5 month pregnancy.
Most weight is gained at the end.

I was 4'11 and 92 pounds at my first prenatal visit with my first child. I weighed almost 130 at the end. I eventually got down to 105. I weight about 125 pounds at the end of my second pregnancy.

She still had quite a ways to go. The odds are: She knew she was pregnant. Most women do!! She had a pregnancy that wasn't causing her to gain a bunch of weight and still allowed her to wear what appear to be 3 inch heels. I don't believe her red corduroy plants were maternity. Her weight gain was somewhat less than average, but I don't read too much into it. Lower weight gain is often a youthful trait, but that does not mean that she was "underage".

Thank you for sharing your expertise and everyone who has shared their stories about pregnancy weight gains. I myself am a woman who is a lot taller and curvy and bigger-framed, so I definitely don't know what's normal for more petite ladies.

I'm guessing she probably knew she was pregnant but it's sounding like it wasn't visible at all, so Chouest might have found out later she was if she did not tell him.

 

[Friday Fan]

Ah...I know this is only a drawing, but those do not appear to be maternity jeans.

Why Are Missing Women of Color So Often Overlooked?

Steve Rhods helped take down an infamous killer. But solving the identity of his first Jane Doe murder case has proved even more vexing, and reveals a larger problem.

www.altaonline.com

 

[Springrain]

Ah...I know this is only a drawing, but those do not appear to be maternity jeans.

Why Are Missing Women of Color So Often Overlooked?

Steve Rhods helped take down an infamous killer. But solving the identity of his first Jane Doe murder case has proved even more vexing, and reveals a larger problem.

www.altaonline.com

Definitely do not look like maternity jeans to me.

As an aside, I do wonder about her shoes. They're cute shoes, but not practical or super comfortable (although they did appear to have a chunkier heel, so probably better than stilettos), but not something you'd expect a hitchhiker to wear. Maybe she was used to them and didn't mind, but that is something that stands out about the shoes. They'd not be comfortable for walking long distances or waiting around to hitch a ride. Especially since she was pregnant. I know she had probably gained little weight, but she might have been feeling nauseous or just not 100%, and have had swollen feet, and I feel like heels wouldn't be the most comfortable shoes from that POV, either.

 

[Friday Fan]

"Hitchhiker" could be in Chouest's imagination..

It could have been someone who looked like she might "need or ride" or "someone walking alone" or anything similar.

I think his first rape victim was supposedly a hitchhiker, then I read she was walking down the street and he asked her if she wanted a ride.

 

[Springrain]

"Hitchhiker" could be in Chouest's imagination..

It could have been someone who looked like she might "need or ride" or "someone walking alone" or anything similar.

I think his first rape victim was supposedly a hitchhiker, then I read she was walking down the street and he asked her if she wanted a ride.

He definitely seems like the type to do that. Walking home, minding her own business, and then force her at knifepoint into his car and then say "Well, she was a hitchhiker!" I can see it.

 

[Springrain]

Wilson Chouest bothers me for a billion different reasons, but a major one is that he lies, frequently, but you can't discount everything he says as obvious lies the way you can with someone like Henry Lee Lucas, who'd confess to guillotining Marie Antoinette if you'd give him a cigarette and milkshake. He also has weird excuses and justifications about his murders. I cannot remember if this was Shirley's murder or Lyra Jade's, but for one of them, he "defended" himself against the accusation by making a racist comment that included saying he would never have sex with someone of their race/ethnicity. I believe this was about Shirley, but I am definitely not 100% on that. I think he looks for defenses and reasons to explain himself away that he feels lessen his crimes and make it look like not a big deal. And just lies.

 

[DSCrime]

Very shortened version of the original Cold Case Files episode now on YouTube.

 

[hafom8840]

Does it happen to be Laura Maria Hernandez? She does look a lot like Lyra Jade, but she's been ruled out by DNA Doe and CODIS.

Pic from Charley Project.

I do not feel she was ever reported for whatever reason it may be.

I'd like to hear some of your scenarios or theories!

I doubt it. This woman was last heard from on December of 1980, months after VCJD was murdered, and the nose + mouth don't align with the morgue photos

 

[Springrain]

I doubt it. This woman was last heard from on December of 1980, months after VCJD was murdered, and the nose + mouth don't align with the morgue photos

I was saying she'd been ruled out. Lyra Jade is definitely not Laura.

 

[Springrain]

Very shortened version of the original Cold Case Files episode now on YouTube.

Thanks for posting! I recommend giving this a watch.

I will also remind everyone, Lyra Jade had been stabbed 29 times. It's inhuman.

 

[DSCrime]

Thanks for posting! I recommend giving this a watch.

I will also remind everyone, Lyra Jade had been stabbed 29 times. It's inhuman.

Thanks, I highly recommend watching the full episode of Cold Case Files b/c it is very moving. Shirley Soosay's family never gave up looking for her. Wonderful work by DNA Doe Project volunteers specializing in Native Indigenous genealogy. All very moving & sad.

Hope Ventura County Jane Doe is identified soon. Glad A & E chose to post even a shortened episode on YouTube b/c it will give the case more attention.

 

[Springrain]

Thanks, I highly recommend watching the full episode of Cold Case Files b/c it is very moving. Shirley Soosay's family never gave up looking for her. Wonderful work by DNA Doe Project volunteers specializing in Native Indigenous genealogy. All very moving & sad.

Hope Ventura County Jane Doe is identified soon. Glad A & E chose to post even a shortened episode on YouTube b/c it will give the case more attention.

I watched the whole episode of Cold Case Files when it was published, but it's been a while, so I forgot some things - it was good to have a quick refresher. It was very interesting to hear about Shirley's Cree ancestry and background and made me so sad to hear Violet talk about how much she and her family struggled with Shirley's disappearance (and death). The story about her seeing Shirley's recon and recognizing her, then hearing that she was called "Becky Ochoa" and concluding it wasn't her made me so sad. She was right on the money. Thank God she has her Aunt Shirley home now.
I do need to rewatch the full episode...

 

[Susikatze]

Definitely do not look like maternity jeans to me.

As an aside, I do wonder about her shoes. They're cute shoes, but not practical or super comfortable (although they did appear to have a chunkier heel, so probably better than stilettos), but not something you'd expect a hitchhiker to wear. Maybe she was used to them and didn't mind, but that is something that stands out about the shoes. They'd not be comfortable for walking long distances or waiting around to hitch a ride. Especially since she was pregnant. I know she had probably gained little weight, but she might have been feeling nauseous or just not 100%, and have had swollen feet, and I feel like heels wouldn't be the most comfortable shoes from that POV, either.

In the second trimester, many women can still comfortably wear heels. Especially if theyre young and in good health. No problem.
Even when youre older. I was 34 and definitely not in good health but still wore heels sometimes into the second trimester. Totally fine, i was actually very agile deep into the 7th month, when i really started to show.

 

[Springrain]

I hate to even bring this up, but I have a question that I feel is relevant to this case: Where was she murdered?

I bring this up because we know Shirley was unfortunately murdered in his car and then dumped in the orchard in Delano and, after the fact, he forced CB's sons to clean her blood from his car. We also know that Lyra Jade, like Shirley, didn't die where she was left; she died elsewhere and then was dumped. It's possible, and honestly probable, Lyra Jade was also killed in the car and Chouest just cleaned out the blood himself or had someone who hasn't come forward do it. But the initial reports in 2015 that I seem to recall hinting at her being possibly held captive for a short amount of time give me pause. I wonder if she was being held captive somewhere and was killed there, rather than in the car. Again, I hate to even bring this up, but I feel like it's important to me to think about to contextualize the murder.

Those of you who have visited the Wilson Chouest SK thread may also recall he had a penchant for stalking and harassing his surviving victims. One woman, he robbed, and then later stalked her at her home frequently, and verbally threatened her. I wonder if there are any reports of him going back to the scene of the crime and "stalking around" because he seems like the type, a real sicko. Just some thoughts.