CA CA - Westlake Village, HispFem 18-30, UP11249, pregnant, in parking lot, Jul'80

[Springrain]

I finally had the chance to sit down and watch the Web of Death episode today. What a tearjerker! Beautifully done. Violet Soosay (Shirley Soosay's niece) and her daughter, Justice, heavily featured in it and discussed their story of bringing Shirley home. Violet has been a great advocate for Shirley as well as a speaker for the MMIW movement (missing and murdered indigenous woman) as a whole. Of course, Det. Rhods was there to advocate for Lyra Jade, as he has for many years now! You can tell he truly cares about these cases and is doing what he can to bring her home.

One thing that has been new resulting from this episode has been the releasing of crime scene photos from both Shirley and Lyra Jade's murders that have not been publicly released, at least to where I could see them and I consider myself well-acquainted with both cases, especially Lyra Jade's. So this was my first time seeing them. They were tragic, and both women's crime scene photos were graphic and horrible, although the blood was sort of blurred out and sensitive body parts were as well. One of Lyra Jade's crime scene photos showed multiple stab wounds on one of her arms, with one in particular being very large. It was tough to see and to think of how much she suffered.

One thing that I took note of with this episode is Det. Rhods described her as being around 3 mos. pregnant. I believe this is different from the previous statements but I could be mistaken, I believe she was previously described as being 4-5 mos. pregnant? Someone please correct me if I'm misremembering.

Time to head over to Shirley's thread now to debrief...

 

[CarlK90245]

One thing that I took note of with this episode is Det. Rhods described her as being around 3 mos. pregnant. I believe this is different from the previous statements but I could be mistaken, I believe she was previously described as being 4-5 mos. pregnant? Someone please correct me if I'm misremembering.

Yes, I believe Steve misspoke when he said 3 months. The autopsy report is at 9:31 of the episode, and indicates that the fetus was "8 1/2 inches from crown to h----" (probably heel).

A three-month fetus would not be that large. A fetus of that size would be more consistent with the 5 months gestation period that has been stated in other sources.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

 

[Springrain]

Thanks for sharing this link. I haven't watched the video yet, but I wanted to jump in to say how shocking it still is to me that we know a) the identity of her killer, and b) the identity of the father of her unborn baby, and we still do not yet know her ID. I feel like her killer being a completely different person from her baby's father, and the two never having crossed paths as far as we know, makes it way more complicated than it appears to be at first blush. In the vast majority of cases of pregnant Does, the baby's father killed the mother. This stands out because the father was completely unrelated to the crime and didn't even know who she was, which is so unusual. I know this isn't news, just mulling it over once more.

One thing that I'll say and I'm saying it with confidence: she is going to go home. I don't know how long it will take. I don't know what lengths investigators and genealogists will have to go to and just know I commend them all wholeheartedly for their efforts throughout the many years and many struggles and issues they have faced with this case. Lyra Jade has a whole crew of highly devoted professionals who are tackling the case, and pouring lots of effort and love into bringing her home. For now, the investigators including Detective Rhods, Carl K, and the rest of the DDP crew are her family, as well as us following the case on Websleuths and beyond. I KNOW she will go home. I don't know when, but she will. She has received her justice in the court of law. The "person" who killed her will be beyond bars for the rest of his sorry life and thank God for that! I know that she has someone out there looking for her - a child, a parent, a sibling, an ex-partner, a friend, somebody somewhere is missing her and has been wondering about her for 42 years. And they will get answers.

I wish there was something I could do to help. All I can think of to do is try to raise awareness of her case, keep a light on for her, and never let her memory fade.

 

[HmmMysterious]

Ventura County Jane Doe's entry has a new high match of 133cm.

DNA Doe Project - General Discussion #3

 

[HmmMysterious]

Ventura County Jane Doe's entry has a new high match of 133cm.

DNA Doe Project - General Discussion #3

Seems like in the 3rd cousin range.

 

[Springrain]

Honestly, and I hate to dwell on this, but to just be quite frank with everyone, I am just angry on behalf of Lyra Jade. Laying out the facts of the case, the bare facts, they are that she was a pregnant mom about 5 months along who was violently raped, strangled, and stabbed 29 TIMES, before being dumped like a pile of garbage in a high school parking lot partially undressed and in a humiliating state. I saw some of the crime scene photos in the Web of Death episode, and they were brutal: this poor woman suffered HORRIBLY. It was not a quick, easy death, or at least as far as murder goes (I know it's never pretty). She was covered in blood, her clothes were absolutely saturated with blood, her body was exposed, there were photos of the stab marks up and down her arms specifically although she had been stabbed in other areas (I assume on her chest or stomach, since her shirt was completely drenched in blood). One of the stab marks photographed on her arm was very deep by the looks of it. A horrible, cruel and senseless way to die. There were no other up-close photos of her wounds shown that I can speak to.

By strong and competent detective work her killer was ID'd and kept behind bars. She fought back against him hard and from my understanding, some of the DNA from underneath her fingernails helped detectives identify Chouest and crack the case. And what a relief that was! But he won't even admit to knowing her, not really. He admitted to killing Shirley Soosay, gave his "story" (he is still a bold-faced liar, but my point is that he admitted to what happened with Shirley). But for years he denied anything with Lyra Jade, claimed he didn't know her, yadda yadda, and then gave the BS story about her hitchhiking in Visalia. We now know (or can surmise, I should say) that this was a bunch of absolute garbage and that she was most likely picked up by him at the Tiny Naylor's restaurant in LA. This makes way much more sense than the Visalia lie anyway and it is what I believe to be true at this point in time. The Visalia lie and distraction on top of EVERYTHING ELSE he had already done just made me even more sick. At least he was more forthcoming about Shirley. Just lies, lies, and more lies about anything to do with Lyra. This piece of flaming excrement really stirs up feelings of rage in me that I have rarely felt before!

I am not sure of how I can best articulate my feelings about the situation with her baby's father. I truly do think he doesn't remember her or know who she is. I don't think he's lying. It saddens me, and frustrates me for her. I could not care less about his personal sexual history, that's not for me to dissect or judge. It just is so saddening on a deep level that the two men who have been irrevocably linked to her in death - the father of her child and the man who took her life - cannot say her name, remember or at least divulge much of anything about her, give the tiniest sliver of information about her. It is like this woman whose life and death and fate was controlled and shifted in part by these two men didn't exist to them. And she did exist. Her life mattered.

 

[Melt71]

Ventura County Jane Doe's entry has a new high match of 133cm.

DNA Doe Project - General Discussion #3

Every year at this time I have hope-upon-hope that all those consumer DNA tests that are given as Xmas presents all over the world start coming through in the systems and yielding a new crop of matches for DNA Doe and other organisations to work with.

 

[Tired Professor]

We now know (or can surmise, I should say) that this was a bunch of absolute garbage and that she was most likely picked up by him at the Tiny Naylor's restaurant in LA. This makes way much more sense than the Visalia lie anyway and it is what I believe to be true at this point in time. The Visalia lie and distraction on top of EVERYTHING ELSE he had already done just made me even more sick.

Well written post. Seeing the crime scene photos on Web of Death was infuriating. The man is evil. I don’t think we can trust a word he says. I can’t buy his “Tiny Naylor’s” claim either. I think it’s another distraction, although given where the baby’s father was, I do think we are much closer to the right geographic area than we were with Visalia.

 

[Friday Fan]

Well written post. Seeing the crime scene photos on Web of Death was infuriating. The man is evil. I don’t think we can trust a word he says. I can’t buy his “Tiny Naylor’s” claim either. I think it’s another distraction, although given where the baby’s father was, I do think we are much closer to the right geographic area than we were with Visalia.

He said he met another woman at Tiny Naylor's. I don't think he mentioned Lyra Jade and Tiny Naylor's
LE think it's a possibility. Lyra Jade lived near Tiny Naylor's.

 

[Tired Professor]

He said he picked up another woman at Tiny Naylor's. I don't think he mentioned Lyra Jade and Tiny Naylor's

LE think it's a possibility. Lyra Jade lived near Tiny Naylor's.

I think Lyra Jade is from that area too given where the baby’s father lived. My initial thought is that Chouest didn’t pick anyone up at Tiny Naylor’s and it’s just more of his garbage and lies that Springrain mentioned. JMO. Of course LE may have some info that they have not shared that leads them to believe Chouest hung out there around that time and did indeed pick a female victim up from that location.

 

[Springrain]

He said he met another woman at Tiny Naylor's. I don't think he mentioned Lyra Jade and Tiny Naylor's
LE think it's a possibility. Lyra Jade lived near Tiny Naylor's.

I thought he confessed to meeting another woman at the Tiny Naylor's and Detective Rhods surmised that it was Lyra Jade? I may be wrong on this point.

I think Lyra Jade is from that area too given where the baby’s father lived. My initial thought is that Chouest didn’t pick anyone up at Tiny Naylor’s and it’s just more of his garbage and lies that Springrain mentioned. JMO. Of course LE may have some info that they have not shared that leads them to believe Chouest hung out there around that time and did indeed pick a female victim up from that location.

I'll be honest, this very well may be the case! From what I know the investigators believe it to be true, but since like I mentioned he is such a bold-faced liar it is hard to know the truth.

I am pretty sure she was from very close to the area so hard to know what's what lol

 

[Springrain]

I've been again trying to think why Wilson Chouest would be forthcoming about Shirley's murder, running around telling everyone who'd listen that he killed a woman from a bar in Lemoore, but make up all these lies and BS surrounding Lyra Jade. Part of me thinks he'd think it was far worse to have killed a pregnant woman and would get him more judgment, but I think that, unless she told him, he would have no clue she was pregnant. I saw the crime scene photos in that episode. She was teeny tiny. You would never guess she was expecting, much less halfway through her pregnancy. I wonder if she did tell him and he was worried. I also think it is a possibility that the circumstances around her death are different than Shirley's - in particular, I'm thinking about his history of abducting and raping random women. I wonder if he forced her into his car, raped her and she tried to get away as she was strangled and/or stabbed from behind? I can see how, in his twisted mind, this scenario would be less "flattering" to him than what he did to Shirley, because in his sick head what happened to Shirley was justified (it was NOT, just to be clear - may that poor woman RIP) whereas he feels this situation would "look worse". Would love to hear any input on this.

 

[Springrain]

DBM

 

[Alleykins]

I've been again trying to think why Wilson Chouest would be forthcoming about Shirley's murder, running around telling everyone who'd listen that he killed a woman from a bar in Lemoore, but make up all these lies and BS surrounding Lyra Jade. Part of me thinks he'd think it was far worse to have killed a pregnant woman and would get him more judgment, but I think that, unless she told him, he would have no clue she was pregnant. I saw the crime scene photos in that episode. She was teeny tiny. You would never guess she was expecting, much less halfway through her pregnancy. I wonder if she did tell him and he was worried. I also think it is a possibility that the circumstances around her death are different than Shirley's - in particular, I'm thinking about his history of abducting and raping random women. I wonder if he forced her into his car, raped her and she tried to get away as she was strangled and/or stabbed from behind? I can see how, in his twisted mind, this scenario would be less "flattering" to him than what he did to Shirley, because in his sick head what happened to Shirley was justified (it was NOT, just to be clear - may that poor woman RIP) whereas he feels this situation would "look worse". Would love to hear any input on this.

You may be on to something. Initially, he may not have known she was pregnant, and then she told him in hopes she could play upon his sympathy, and he'd let her go. Back in the late 70s, we had a series of rapes in our town, and local authorities brought in a rape prevention expert. He gave us tips on how to avoid and possibly escape an attack. One of them was telling the attacker you were pregnant/sick/on your period, which had worked for some victims.
Also, child killers have a very difficult time in prison. I'm thinking killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child was not something a killer would brag about, even to the lowest of low criminals.

 

[Susikatze]

You may be on to something. Initially, he may not have known she was pregnant, and then she told him in hopes she could play upon his sympathy, and he'd let her go. Back in the late 70s, we had a series of rapes in our town, and local authorities brought in a rape prevention expert. He gave us tips on how to avoid and possibly escape an attack. One of them was telling the attacker you were pregnant/sick/on your period, which had worked for some victims.
Also, child killers have a very difficult time in prison. I'm thinking killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child was not something a killer would brag about, even to the lowest of low criminals.

There may also have been a considerable language barrier. If Lyra was a recent immigrant, she may have tried to talk Spanish to him which he likely did not understand. Also, she may have been already unconscious. And lastly, I dont think Chouest was someone who would have let a pregnant victim go. I mean, he killed Shirley while she was intoxicated and very vulnerable. Why would a pregnancy, especially if not visible, have stopped his killing rush?

 

[Susikatze]

Dbm double

 

[Springrain]

You may be on to something. Initially, he may not have known she was pregnant, and then she told him in hopes she could play upon his sympathy, and he'd let her go. Back in the late 70s, we had a series of rapes in our town, and local authorities brought in a rape prevention expert. He gave us tips on how to avoid and possibly escape an attack. One of them was telling the attacker you were pregnant/sick/on your period, which had worked for some victims.
Also, child killers have a very difficult time in prison. I'm thinking killing a pregnant woman and her unborn child was not something a killer would brag about, even to the lowest of low criminals.

I can see this scenario playing out for sure. Looking at her he would have no way to tell she was pregnant. She was so slender. If he knew, she either would have had to have told him, or something I'm thinking of now, is that he heard that she was pregnant after the fact - maybe in newspaper articles or other local media coverage of her case? Maybe when Detective Rhods interviewed him about the killing of the pregnant woman in Westlake Village, after Rhods had already linked him to the case?

There may also have been a considerable language barrier. If Lyra was a recent immigrant, she may have tried to talk Spanish to him which he likely did not understand. Also, she may have been already unconscious. And lastly, I dont think Chouest was someone who would have let a pregnant victim go. I mean, he killed Shirley while she was intoxicated and very vulnerable. Why would a pregnancy, especially if not visible, have stopped his killing rush?

I definitely agree that he wouldn't have actually cared about a victim being pregnant personally or let her go - my thinking is more that he felt it would look worse for him and so felt compelled to lie about it, maybe. As you mention, the trouble is we really don't know if she was an immigrant, born in raised in the LA area, or what her situation was, so she may have had English as her first or even only language or she may have known very little - it's hard to say either way. That was just an idea that popped up in my head. If not for the pregnancy, I wonder what else it could be that compels him to lie about her murder versus Shirley's. Maybe because she was younger? She didn't speak English and so couldn't communicate with him? He felt the circumstances around her death made him look worse than Shirley's (possibly abducting her off the street and attacking her versus luring from a bar?) I think he felt that others would agree with him that Shirley "deserved" it as a vulnerable, drunk woman. She absolutely did not, not in any capacity, in any universe, but I can see him thinking that. IMO it was likely there was some factor in Lyra Jade's murder that he thought would be harder to defend on his end. He had no qualms about running around blabbing that he killed Shirley, but he still lies about Lyra Jade. I find that very curious.

 

[Susikatze]

I can see this scenario playing out for sure. Looking at her he would have no way to tell she was pregnant. She was so slender. If he knew, she either would have had to have told him, or something I'm thinking of now, is that he heard that she was pregnant after the fact - maybe in newspaper articles or other local media coverage of her case? Maybe when Detective Rhods interviewed him about the killing of the pregnant woman in Westlake Village, after Rhods had already linked him to the case?

I definitely agree that he wouldn't have actually cared about a victim being pregnant personally or let her go - my thinking is more that he felt it would look worse for him and so felt compelled to lie about it, maybe. As you mention, the trouble is we really don't know if she was an immigrant, born in raised in the LA area, or what her situation was, so she may have had English as her first or even only language or she may have known very little - it's hard to say either way. That was just an idea that popped up in my head. If not for the pregnancy, I wonder what else it could be that compels him to lie about her murder versus Shirley's. Maybe because she was younger? She didn't speak English and so couldn't communicate with him? He felt the circumstances around her death made him look worse than Shirley's (possibly abducting her off the street and attacking her versus luring from a bar?) I think he felt that others would agree with him that Shirley "deserved" it as a vulnerable, drunk woman. She absolutely did not, not in any capacity, in any universe, but I can see him thinking that. IMO it was likely there was some factor in Lyra Jade's murder that he thought would be harder to defend on his end. He had no qualms about running around blabbing that he killed Shirley, but he still lies about Lyra Jade. I find that very curious.

Many serial killers make up stories. Most things he told about Shirley were not true as well, at least the ones that could have been verified.

He may have met Lyra at the Tiny Naylors, as suggested. He may have offered her a drink or meal or a ride somewhere.
-She may have been a working girl who initially got into his car unsuspectingly.
- He may have just randomly seen her walking on the street and offered her a ride in the heat.
- He may have been drunk or on drugs and not remember many details.

Also somehow, many serial killers tend to remember more details of their first victim compared to the subsequent ones when the focus is entirely on the act of killing/rape/torture whatever than on the person.
We will probably never find out. Fact is he preyed on vulnerable women of indigenous descent (Lyra is Latina of substantial indigenous descent).

 

[subaw0067]

Many serial killers make up stories. Most things he told about Shirley were not true as well, at least the ones that could have been verified.

He may have met Lyra at the Tiny Naylors, as suggested. He may have offered her a drink or meal or a ride somewhere.
-She may have been a working girl who initially got into his car unsuspectingly.
- He may have just randomly seen her walking on the street and offered her a ride in the heat.
- He may have been drunk or on drugs and not remember many details.

Also somehow, many serial killers tend to remember more details of their first victim compared to the subsequent ones when the focus is entirely on the act of killing/rape/torture whatever than on the person.
We will probably never find out. Fact is he preyed on vulnerable women of indigenous descent (Lyra is Latina of substantial indigenous descent).

I have a feeling that Lyra was a sex worker, that's how she got pregnant, and that's why the baby's father didn't know her. He likely wasn't her boyfriend, they just had a brief encounter. JMO IMO