Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

Discussion in 'Lisa Irwin' started by matou, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. GoodGurl

    GoodGurl New Member

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    you are right, she did. forgot about that. AND my friend was just reminding me, IIRC, JI's original story was that he checked on boys, then went to parents bedroom, then asked "where's Lisa" as if expecting her to be there. When DB showed panic, THEN he went to Lisa's room.
     


  2. GoodGurl

    GoodGurl New Member

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    Still re-reading. If I am understanding this correctly, IF Lisa passed while in her crib possibly hours earlier, and then was brought to the parents bedroom - there would have been scent in the crib as well as trace for the movement. Is that correct?
     
  3. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    BBM
    I'm sure that Lisa was in her parents bedroom at some point in time.

    The "FBI dog" hit does not in any way mean that Lisa Irwin died or was dead in that bedroom.

    I'm not sure what you mean when you say "DB never mentioned that".

    MOO.
     
  4. KsStormy

    KsStormy New Member

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    Yes, if there was a body in the crib, the dogs would have hit there. However, Deborah told Judge Jeanine that she liked to have her children sleep in her bed, so naturally it's a good assumption that Lisa slept there as well. I think she died in her mothers bedroom.
     
  5. GoodGurl

    GoodGurl New Member

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    I think so too. Both of their statements, plus the dog hit, tend to show that Lisa was probably in DB room from dinner on, not in her crib. And that it was normal. Likely DB found her when she went in that night.
     
  6. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    I found this interesting, not one but two cadaver dogs hit on the same area in this case, turned out they now believe the bones recovered were from an animal.

    http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/san_francisco&id=8974854

     
  7. carole

    carole Well-Known Member

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  8. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    Yes, I know that, I posted it. :waitasec:
     
  9. redheadedgal

    redheadedgal Well-Known Member

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    carole-- he's attempting to imply cadaver dogs --which are supposed to know the difference b/w human and animal bones-- might be responsible for a false positive at LI's house too.

    except, in this search, they didn't use FBI cadaver dogs which

    1) are known for having an accuracy rate of 90+% in general (links to this info posted all over this forum), and
    2) martin grime's dogs have an excellent record of accuracy, specifically (same)


    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...n-connection-to-1984-disappearance-of-sf-boy/
     
  10. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    Actually, I wasn't "attempting to imply" anything, I was posting a link that shows in fact that cadaver dogs WILL hit on deceased animal remains.
     
  11. Nom de plume

    Nom de plume Member

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    In order to believe SODDI it's impossible NOT to ignore evidence.
     
  12. redheadedgal

    redheadedgal Well-Known Member

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    properly trained cadaver dogs (as in FBI assets) will not alert to animal bones:


    http://k9searchsolutions.com/Services.html

    http://barksar.org/NNDDA_cert.pdf

    http://www.globalanimal.org/2011/06...ut-truth-in-casey-anthony-murder-trial/41784/

    http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/cadaverdogs.html

    http://www.scpr.org/news/2012/01/20/30870/indiana-bones-cadaver-dog-severed-limbs-hollywood/

    http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

    http://www.illinoissearchdogs.org/capabilities/cadaver_dogs.shtml

    http://www.ilpwda.com/faqs.htm

    http://ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/v37_1_04/article_18.shtml

    etc.


    but feel free to 1) provide a link where an FBI cadaver dog alerted to animal bones or 2) provide a link to info where animal bones were found in DB's bedroom...

    ( maybe DB ate a big old bucket of KFC in bed :D )
     
  13. redheadedgal

    redheadedgal Well-Known Member

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    Lynne Engelbert, of the California-based Institute for Canine Forensics, says there isn't a nationally established training standard for cadaver dogs, but said her organization's regimen is "intense."

    "We're very specific…we want to be the best of the best," she said, adding the group developed its own certification test, which is conducted annually.

    "We've worked hard to get the reputation we have. If we don't have that integrity, we've got nothing."

    The FBI has three cadaver dogs working cases countrywide. Each is tested annually to ensure they meet "best practice" standards, Rex A. Stockham, the FBI's forensic canine program manager has testified.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130126/METRO/301260361#ixzz2LCeYgu6I
     
  14. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    In one or more of your many above links it states no psuedo scents may be used while in another it states ...

    So it seems even these experts you quote can't agree on how they are trained. Feel free to 1) show proof where it states as a fact FBI cadaver dogs never get it wrong 2) that FBI dogs found evidence of human remains that was removed from the Irwin household

    If FBI dogs were 100% credible, there would have been an arrest by now.
     
  15. redheadedgal

    redheadedgal Well-Known Member

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    lol--

    1) i wasn't discussing how the dogs were trained... i was speaking about what they are trained to find and what they should be trained to ignore
    2) i couldn't find one article that asserted an FBI dog got it wrong... unlike your "alameda dogs"
    3) "an FBI dog alerted to the scent of a deceased human being" is good enough for myself and many here
    4) who would be arrested? for what? murder? accidental death cover up? (again, if LE can't prove who did what, how can they lay charges exactly?)
     
  16. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    BBM: The dog alerted or so they claim in the SW, since we have no proof any human decomposition was gathered, I can only assume the dog signaled, if the dog was 100% accurate is still up in the air for many of us
     
  17. RANCH

    RANCH Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that the FBI dog hit at the Irwin home was made by one of these three FBI dogs. I thought that you always said that it was Martin Grime's dog that made the hit.
     
  18. carole

    carole Well-Known Member

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    In the article you posted, the bones have been sent to the lab for testing to determine whether or not they are human. Just because someone thinks they are animal bones, LE is interested in finding out for sure.
     
  19. Dewey2Me1MoThyme

    Dewey2Me1MoThyme Have clue will sleuth!

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    Yes I know, I read it. As of 6th of Feb they still believed they were animal bones, I haven't been able to find anything more current.
     
  20. redheadedgal

    redheadedgal Well-Known Member

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    re: the alameda sheriff's office dogs that apparently alerted to animal bones as brought forth for discussion by another poster

    seems those dogs have a "habit" of giving false positives... they did it again on phillip garrido's property (the man convicted of kidnapping/raping jaycee dugard):

    bones found: http://abcnews.go.com/US/bones-found-cadaver-dogs-indicate-phillip-garrido-property/story?id=8600688

    bones "likely animal": http://www.rgj.com/article/20091001/NEWS/91001023/Police--Bones-on-Garrido-property-likely-animal


    i think the ASO needs new dogs.
     
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