Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #12

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Pharma giant and philanthropists Barry and Honey Sherman found dead
    Verified Insider

    Kerry Winter

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  2. JerseyGirl

    JerseyGirl Staff Member Staff Member Forum Coordinators

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  3. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  4. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    With all the shootings and murders in Toronto this week I fear that this case is falling further and further from focus
     
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  5. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully not in LE's case, even if in the public sphere. Bumping for justice for the Shermans!
     
  6. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    As long as one dedicated officer is still assigned to the Sherman case the focus will remain.

    Old cases are still followed by the amateur sleuthers. Look up the case of Ambrose Small on the net for example.

    I know I will not lose interest.
     
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  7. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Nor I, thanks for the reminder about this intriguing mystery..
    CANADA - Canada - Ambrose Small, 56, Toronto, 2 Dec 1919
     
  8. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that will not change in the Sherman case is the motive. The motive for the murders will remain. Whoever perpetrated these crimes had a reason, it might have been for revenge, or jealousy, or some anticipated gain. As time goes by I believe the motive may become very apparent, and lead to the criminals.

    When direct evidence is lacking in a crime, often LE starts looking at 'who benefits'? I have a feeling that this crime was about emotional benefits. Not about money or wealth or power. It was about payback, settling a score. I believe this because of the efforts in the form of death and staging. This was not a quick and clean assassination.

    The people who committed the actual crime were very good, there were no witnesses in the neighbourhood, and the bodies were not discovered for hours. It is my understanding that there were no signs of emotional outrage on the bodies, which leads me to believe that the actual killers were not the ones with the emotional anger. That also implies that the actual killers were hired.

    Based on my assumptions therefore
    **The Perpetrator had lots of money and power to hire professional killers, likely from outside Canada.
    **He/she had the ability to hide evidence of the plot from most people.
    **He/she had a great emotional grudge against the Shermans.
    **He/she are very intelligent, have a high profile, but have some emotional flaws, that are usually kept under control.
    **He/she likely interacted with the Shermans on a fairly regular basis (because they were a reoccurring irritant, where their death was the only apparent solution)
    **High probability he/she expressed disdain/anger about the Sherman's previously.

    This is my opinion only, and I do understand there are other possible scenarios, but if I was the lead detective on the case, I would investigate this theory . There likely are less than ten individuals who fit this profile.
     
  9. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone think that the perp/s ( masterminds?) feel guilty about the murders now?
     
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  10. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think the killer(s) or mastermind(s) feels guilty about it now. Why would they? This was not a crime of passion where one flips out in a rage and spontaneously attacks and kills a person...let alone two people. A crime of passion might cause guilt, but this was not a spontaneous crime based on the evidence of how they died. This was a premeditated, sadistic and likely professional killing. Who ever masterminded it or actually did it, likely feels it was a job well done. jmo
     
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  11. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    You sure about that?
     
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  12. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    It does seem very obvious.
     
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  13. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    My understanding of a "crime of passion where one flips out in a rage and spontaneously attacks and kills a person" there are some signs that usually are present.

    ***Little or no pre-planning; for the deaths or for escape, often evidence of arrival and departure at crime scene/witnesses.
    ***Usually a sloppy crime scene; with a tendency to over-kill, such as multiple gun shots, excessive stab wounds, savage beating. The rage is directed at victims body.
    *** Usually adequate forensic evidence is found; bloody footprints, murder weapon and so.
    ***Since it is fair to assume that the Shermans arrived home separately, it would be truly unusual for a rage killer to kill one, then wait to kill the other later.

    From what I know, this crime was carefully planned, the victims were targeted, no signs of over-kill, crime scene was neat and organised, scarcity of forensic evidence (this last point is an assumption).

    Now I may be way off on this assumption, and I may someday recognise these deaths were the result of spontaneous rage, but at this time I do not think so.
     
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  14. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    I think my original comment went over your head. What I was suggesting was the possibility of Barry rage killing Honey. At this point I'll take LE's word that this was a double murder, but I am definitely open to the idea that they misread the evidence and made the wrong call, or that they purposely called it a double murder as a political favour.
     
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  15. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Deception is key to understanding this case imo. The murder scene was set up to look like a m/s. It was staged, and caused uncertainty for some time by LE ( let’s not debate that, ok).
    It’s easy to say that the killers wanted them both dead, so they killed them both. But maybe this is a planned deception too. Maybe Barry was the real target, but the killers wanted to hide their true motive so they killed them both. Or maybe honey was the real target and they killed both. It would have been so much easier to just shoot the real target- this is happening in Toronto every week!
    I believe the staging was set up to humiliate the couple by presenting the scenario that Barry murdered honey and then killed himself. Their legacy would be tarnished.
    Because there are so many possible explanations, I believe LE must focus on and identify who had the most to gain from one or both of them being killed. It’s hard, because we don’t know who the real target was- Barry, honey, or both.
    In fact, it’s even possible that neither Barry or honey was the target! Maybe killing them was a way to punish one of this family members-
     
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  16. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I hit post too early.
    Maybe killing them was intended to punish someone in their family- kids, etc. There are many possibilities, and I just fear LE is not equipped to solve a case this complex.
    Donovan’s book is coming out in a couple of months. I’m sure he isn’t happy with the fact that this case is no longer producing headlines- not good for book sales!
     
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  17. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    Rick, yes I did miss that, but for Barry to have been enraged enough to kill Honey, I would have expected to see other signs of rage. 1) overkill, and 2) messy crime scene. Just too neat and organised for a Barry instigated rage killing from my perspective. again I could be wrong.

    Regarding the feeling of guilt of the perpetrators, that depends on a lot of factors. However I think most people who kill other people intentionally, tend not have guilt feelings about it. It is my understanding that most perps feel the victims had it coming to them.
     
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  18. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I've nothing to add to discussion at present, but I still check in for news and cogitate this case around my ol' head from time to time. Hard to believe the Shermans' deaths were going on nearly 2 years ago, come Dec.
    I honestly am not sure what to think any more, but one thing I do know is that Barry and Honey deserve justice and closure for their loved ones.
     
  19. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I've nothing to add to discussion at present, but I still check in for news and cogitate this case around my ol' head from time to time. Hard to believe the Shermans' deaths were going on nearly 2 years ago, come Dec.
    I honestly am not sure what to think any more, but one thing I do know is that Barry and Honey deserve justice and closure for their loved ones.
     
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  20. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I've nothing to add to discussion at present, but I still check in for news and cogitate this case around my ol' head from time to time. Hard to believe the Shermans' deaths were going on nearly 2 years ago, come Dec.
    I honestly am not sure what to think any more, but one thing I do know is that Barry and Honey deserve justice and closure for their loved ones.
     
  21. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    I've nothing to add to discussion at present, but I still check in for news and cogitate this case around my ol' head from time to time. Hard to believe the Shermans' deaths were going on nearly 2 years ago, come Dec.
    I honestly am not sure what to think any more, but one thing I do know is that Barry and Honey deserve justice and closure for their loved ones.
     
  22. rickcross

    rickcross Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately for those of us that are following this case there have been no updates since Gomes announced this to be a double murder. Given that LE was under huge scrutiny for even contemplating this was a murder suicide, you would think that they could have made public at least one fact that would confirm their opinion. But no, we never heard another word from her, and despite a relatively unspectacular career as a homicide detective, she was promoted to a very high level management position. This is one of the highest profile cases in Toronto history, yet there is absolutely nothing being said about it by LE. No updates. No appeals to the public for info. Nothing. In my opinion that means one of two things, that they have a suspect, or that they are sweeping this under the carpet.
     
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