CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

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dotr

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Pharma giant and philanthropists Barry and Honey Sherman found dead
Pharmaceutical giant Barry Sherman and his wife Honey Sherman were found dead in a home in Toronto’s York Mills neighbourhood on Friday afternoon, sources confirm.

Emergency crews responded to a 9-1-1 medical call at a house located at 50 Old Colony Road, which is in the area of Bayview Avenue and Highway 401.
Firefighters, officers and paramedics arrived on scene just before 12 p.m. and located two bodies inside.
Barry Sherman was the chairman of generic drug company Apotex Inc. He and his wife were well known Toronto philanthropists.

Canadian Business magazine recently listed Barry Sherman as the 15th richest person in Canada, with a net worth of $4.77 billion.

Speaking to reporters in front of the home, Const. David Hopkinson said the victims’ deaths are being treated as suspicious at this time.

“The circumstances of their deaths appear suspicious and we are treating it that way,” he said. “Our investigators are inside (the home) investigating and taking apart the scene.”

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Sillybilly

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ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

Unless a member is a Verified Insider, they must provide MSM links to substantiate information stated as fact, otherwise make it very clear that it is your opinion (MOO, JMO, etc) or your post may be removed.

IF your information is coming from Kevin Donovan's book, please make that very clear, as in "KD states ...".

Also please do NOT post inside information that could be LE holdback related to the actual crime scene.
 

MistyWaters

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Dotr may have already posted this. This was an attempted double-homicide of a couple and the killer was caught on cctv walking to and from the scene. (Emphasis mine.) Suspect:


“Wendy was shot twice in the head, while Robert was shot dead. Investigators are now saying the suspect likely hid inside their Homewood residence for hours waiting to kill.

“I think it was something that was planned,” said Lt. Nelson Resendes with the Placer County Sheriff’s Office….

….The suspect was caught on surveillance video leaving the Spohrs home with his face covered up tough to identify.

CBS13 asked Adrienne if her mom remembers anything from the day her husband was killed.

READ MORE: 'Parents Worst Nightmare:' Update From Family Of 16-Year-Old Injured In Antelope Shooting
“No, and to be honest with you, I don’t know if I’ll ever want her to because she would have seen my dad with gunshot wounds,” she said.

Without Wendy’s memory, the Spohr family is offering a $150,000 reward for anyone who may have seen something.

“He walked along that bike lane for almost an hour. There’s people who travel along that bike lane with GoPros and camera footage,” Adrienne said.

So after eight months, what do investigators know so far about the suspect?

The sheriff’s office told CBS13 the murder was not random. Here’s why.

“The fact that this person knew how to get into the house, where to hide undetected, leads us to believe there’s more to it,” Lt. Nelson Resendes said.


Sources told CBS13 that investigators are considering the possibility the suspect was hired to kill the Spohrs, hoping the large reward will turn up answers for the family.”

Several Months After Tahoe Couple Was Targeted By Killer, Family Offers Reward For Information

That would be an example of the typical hit, shoot quickly, be out and on their way. But to take additional time and effort to pose bodies in such a way that it appears even for a moment have been a m/s….to me that evens very different because it involves an emotional aspect. If someone is hired to kill, death is the objective and so the mission is accomplished the minute the victims heart stops beating.

In the Sherman case it seems to me someone with a very personal vengeance and who was extremely diabolical was directly involved, a person who got their rocks off by viewing up close both Barry and Honey satisfactorily positioned in such a way as to illustrate their end of life game was of their own making. If not for that reason, what would be the point the staging? JMO
 

sammarlowe

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No doubt there is a long list of individual builders and contractors, who have been sued and otherwise unfairly treated by Barry Sherman. I would hope anybody working for him recently had contracts with clauses that would limit their exposure to Barry's pettiness and apparent greed.

From a behavioral point of view though, all the circumstances (the location of the deaths, the form of the killing, the staging and so on) all point to a emotional relationship between the perpetrator(s) and the victims.

Even though there are a potentially a large number of individuals who may have had a motive based on being sued by Barry, nothing to me points to the fact that this was a retribution type killing.

We have a prime suspect in the NW, the TPS should focus on him, determine where he was walking that night. If you can discover his destination, there will be a high probability you will eventually learn his identity and solve the case.
People continue to say it's just business, this killing was personal. Business is personal to a lot of people.
 

MistyWaters

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People continue to say it's just business, this killing was personal. Business is personal to a lot of people.

Business might be personal but thankfully it takes a true nutcase to kill because of it. Somebody doesn’t just go from being a law abiding citizen their entire life to being capable of this kind of vicious and cruel murder overnight, there’d be a long history of mental illness along the way IMO.

I doubt Barry Sherman is alone in ever suing a shoddy contractor for unsatisfactory work. A lawsuit doesn’t fly in court based on a homeowners negative opinion because they don’t like the work or they were difficult to deal with. All kinds of professional engineer’s reports would be required to support the identified weaknesses.

JMO
 

juli99

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People continue to say it's just business, this killing was personal. Business is personal to a lot of people.

I think the difference in saying it's personal is that this was someone who knew BS on a personal level to some extent. Would BS even remember the contractors he sued back in the 90's? Would they be exacting their revenge and he wouldn't even remember who they are? This raises another point. What are the odds if it was a hitman, that he explained to BS and HS who hired him? Do you think they knew why they were being murdered?
 

FromGermany1

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Windsor, previous thread at the end:
No doubt there is a long list of individual builders and contractors, who have been sued and otherwise unfairly treated by Barry Sherman. I would hope anybody working for him recently had contracts with clauses that would limit their exposure to Barry's pettiness and apparent greed.

From a behavioral point of view though, all the circumstances (the location of the deaths, the form of the killing, the staging and so on) all point to a emotional relationship between the perpetrator(s) and the victims.

Even though there are a potentially a large number of individuals who may have had a motive based on being sued by Barry, nothing to me points to the fact that this was a retribution type killing.

We have a prime suspect in the NW, the TPS should focus on him, determine where he was walking that night. If you can discover his destination, there will be a high probability you will eventually learn his identity and solve the case.

-.-.-

Builders and contractors: What, if it was a conspiracy of builders/contractors, hadn't to be more than 2 or 3 or 4, one of them emotionally much more connected to B+H because being a relative of them ......? They all had their traumatic experiences with B+H, together bought a hitman and created a plan (hitman got ordered to do a certain staging for individual reason of one person, perhaps). All speculation!
 

ldlager

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That would be an example of the typical hit, shoot quickly, be out and on their way. But to take additional time and effort to pose bodies in such a way that it appears even for a moment have been a m/s….to me that evens very different because it involves an emotional aspect. If someone is hired to kill, death is the objective and so the mission is accomplished the minute the victims heart stops beating.

In the Sherman case it seems to me someone with a very personal vengeance and who was extremely diabolical was directly involved, a person who got their rocks off by viewing up close both Barry and Honey satisfactorily positioned in such a way as to illustrate their end of life game was of their own making. If not for that reason, what would be the point the staging? JMO

We all assume the bodies were "posed". But it is possible that the killer positioned the Shermans as they were found (sitting, immobilized by coats, belt around their necks looped over the railing, maybe with mouths stuffed with rags etc to prevent screaming) ) before they were murdered. I can imagine someone standing in front of them while they were in that position, talking to/at them both, telling them what they had done to someone that was so egregious, and why they were going to die, with the Shermans unable to respond or free themselves. It was possibly only after that "conversation" happened when they were strangled, likely with the killer standing in front of them, as there doesn't appear to be mush room behind the railing without falling into the pool. MOO
 

juli99

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We all assume the bodies were "posed". But it is possible that the killer positioned the Shermans as they were found (sitting, immobilized by coats, belt around their necks looped over the railing, maybe with mouths stuffed with rags etc to prevent screaming) ) before they were murdered. I can imagine someone standing in front of them while they were in that position, talking to/at them both, telling them what they had done to someone that was so egregious, and why they were going to die, with the Shermans unable to respond or free themselves. It was possibly only after that "conversation" happened when they were strangled, likely with the killer standing in front of them, as there doesn't appear to be mush room behind the railing without falling into the pool. MOO

(Warning, graphic) Can someone explain to me how the belts were used? I originally pictured a big loose loop, but I think I understand now the loops were small and tight, with the end tied to the railing. Is that accurate?
 

MistyWaters

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We all assume the bodies were "posed". But it is possible that the killer positioned the Shermans as they were found (sitting, immobilized by coats, belt around their necks looped over the railing, maybe with mouths stuffed with rags etc to prevent screaming) ) before they were murdered. I can imagine someone standing in front of them while they were in that position, talking to/at them both, telling them what they had done to someone that was so egregious, and why they were going to die, with the Shermans unable to respond or free themselves. It was possibly only after that "conversation" happened when they were strangled, likely with the killer standing in front of them, as there doesn't appear to be mush room behind the railing without falling into the pool. MOO

You could be right but we really don’t have enough information to know for sure. A pathologist should be able to identity if the belts were the ligatures that was used. However it’s said strangulation results in convulsions, compared to the uncontorted positioning when the bodies were found, wouldn’t one expect some kind of struggle would occur (?), also any binding of the wrists must’ve been removed so it would appear at least some posing did take place. JMO
 
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Window21

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Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder

Info about the autopsy just to refresh our memory if need be:

"From his conversation with Pickup, and from the police news release, Chiasson knew ligature neck compression had been determined as the medical cause of death. He was curious to see the condition of the horseshoe-shaped hyoid bones in both necks he was going to examine. Though not conclusive, the condition of the hyoid bone would inform his determination."

"There were those in the forensic pathology world who believed that to make a ruling of murder by strangulation it was imperative that the hyoid bone be fractured. But 20 years earlier, Chiasson and Michael Pollanen, now the province’s chief forensic pathologist, had authored a study that proved this was not the case."

"They found the bone was fractured in only one-third of the cases of homicide by strangulation. In the other two-thirds, an intact hyoid was found to be related to several factors, including the pressure that was used on the neck, the condition of the hyoid bone to begin with, and the type of ligature that was used. The softer the ligature wrapped around the neck, the less likely the hyoid bone was to fracture."

"Compounding this, and creating further confusion, was how age factored in. In the two-decade-old study, Chiasson and Pollanen had found that the older the victim, the more likely the hyoid bone was to fracture in a homicidal strangulation.

"Barry Sherman’s hyoid bone had been removed in the earlier autopsy by Pickup. But through information provided to Chiasson that day, he came to understand that neither Barry nor Honey’s hyoid bone was fractured. Chiasson wondered if that was why police thought it was a murder-suicide. As he had shown with his research years before, a murder with a soft ligature could leave an intact hyoid."

"Later in the day, Chiasson looked at the death scene photos Pickup had brought to the autopsy suite. The Shermans were in a seated position, legs outstretched away from the pool, with jackets on but pulled down off the shoulder. A belt was looped around each person’s neck, with the end of each belt fed through the buckle and the end then looped or tied around the metre-high railing they were positioned against."

"The leather belts would qualify as a soft ligature. If pressure was applied firmly but not suddenly, the hyoid would likely not fracture."

"Chiasson, who would later discuss his findings with Cairns, did not see how the murder-suicide theory could work. While it was theoretically possible that one of the two had strangled the other and then staged the body, the other person could not have died by strangulation simply by looping the belt over the rail and sitting down. There would not be enough weight or downward force. The retired detectives present in the room agreed."
 

MistyWaters

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For what it’s worth, Greenspan suggested the bodies were staged -

BBM
“Greenspan vowed not to compromise the investigation: “We’ll make no public disclosure of information we have acquired or is in the hands of the Toronto Police Service.” Yet in criticizing the police for failing to identify the crime as a homicide at the outset, he described the staging of Barry Sherman’s body with new details about placement of his glasses: “Barry Sherman’s legs were outstretched with one crossed over the other in a passive manner, wearing his undisturbed eyeglasses and his jacket pulled slightly behind his back which would have prevented use of his arms.”
Barry and Honey Sherman: Duelling investigations, high drama and still no answers - Macleans.ca
 

Lexiintoronto

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We all assume the bodies were "posed". But it is possible that the killer positioned the Shermans as they were found (sitting, immobilized by coats, belt around their necks looped over the railing, maybe with mouths stuffed with rags etc to prevent screaming) ) before they were murdered. I can imagine someone standing in front of them while they were in that position, talking to/at them both, telling them what they had done to someone that was so egregious, and why they were going to die, with the Shermans unable to respond or free themselves. It was possibly only after that "conversation" happened when they were strangled, likely with the killer standing in front of them, as there doesn't appear to be mush room behind the railing without falling into the pool. MOO

That makes the most sense to me. It would be easier to walk them there and restrain them to the railing. And I agree about the pool room, there seems to be little floor space to manoeuvre.

The bothersome thing is in this quote (and in another article I’d have to search for) emphasis mine:

“Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their basement swimming pool room on December 15, 2017. As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. For six weeks, police seriously considered the possibility that they died of double suicide or murder suicide, before determining on January 26, 2018 that it was a “targeted” double murder.”
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses

It makes it sound to me as if they died in one position, and there are signs they were moved into the position they were found.

If that’s true, and the killer was staging this as a m/s, he made errors the pathologists found, imo.
 

juli99

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That makes the most sense to me. It would be easier to walk them there and restrain them to the railing. And I agree about the pool room, there seems to be little floor space to manoeuvre.

The bothersome thing is in this quote (and in another article I’d have to search for) emphasis mine:

“Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their basement swimming pool room on December 15, 2017. As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. For six weeks, police seriously considered the possibility that they died of double suicide or murder suicide, before determining on January 26, 2018 that it was a “targeted” double murder.”
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses

It makes it sound to me as if they died in one position, and there are signs they were moved into the position they were found.

If that’s true, and the killer was staging this as a m/s, he made errors the pathologists found, imo.

I wonder if it's possible it was a combination of things? Quickly overpower them as they enter the house, zip tie their wrists, move them to the pool room, get them into position with the belts in the pool room, use zip ties to strangle them, then when all is said and done remove all the zip ties so it appears as a M/S.
 

juli99

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Of interest..

Suicidal ligature strangulation utilizing cable ties: a report of three cases - PubMed

"In 2006 the US National Vital Statistics Report recorded 33,300 suicides in the United States, of which hanging, strangulation and suffocation combined to account for 7,491 (22.5%) of the cases. Self strangulation by ligature is uncommon and in the majority of cases, scarves, belts, neckties and rope are used. We report three instances where cable ties were secured around the neck in order to commit suicide. All had a history of depression. One was a 37-year-old man who used a belt to complete the act after an unsuccessful attempt to use cable ties. The second was a 63-year old woman who used multiple cable ties to accomplish her goal. In the third case a tensioning tool was used by a 54-year old man to tighten a cable tie around his neck during self strangulation. Utilization of a tool to tighten the cable ties has not previously been reported."
 

Lexiintoronto

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(Warning, graphic) Can someone explain to me how the belts were used? I originally pictured a big loose loop, but I think I understand now the loops were small and tight, with the end tied to the railing. Is that accurate?

Yes, that’s right (as far as we know). KD wrote in his book that each belt was wrapped around the neck with the end of the belt fed through the buckle. The ends were then tied to the railing. (I don’t quite understand that part, they must have been thin belts.)

I wonder if it's possible it was a combination of things? Quickly overpower them as they enter the house, zip tie their wrists, move them to the pool room, get them into position with the belts in the pool room, use zip ties to strangle them, then when all is said and done remove all the zip ties so it appears as a M/S.

The way you describe it makes the most sense, especially if there’s just one killer.

I may be taking what KD has written the wrong way, but I get the impression they were deceased, maybe on the floor of the pool room for example, then moved into a sitting position. KD seems to make that distinction, imo. (Lividity markings, maybe?) I’m trying to find a quote from another article.
 

FromGermany1

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I think the difference in saying it's personal is that this was someone who knew BS on a personal level to some extent. Would BS even remember the contractors he sued back in the 90's? Would they be exacting their revenge and he wouldn't even remember who they are? This raises another point. What are the odds if it was a hitman, that he explained to BS and HS who hired him? Do you think they knew why they were being murdered?
I can well imagine, B+H knew resp. were told, who wanted them dead and why.
 

ldlager

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You could be right but we really don’t have enough information to know for sure. A pathologist should be able to identity if the belts were the ligatures that was used. However it’s said strangulation results in convulsions, compared to the uncontorted positioning when the bodies were found, wouldn’t one expect some kind of struggle would occur (?), also any binding of the wrists must’ve been removed so it would appear at least some posing did take place. JMO

Agreed, I was just theorizing that they may have been killed after the belts were attached to the railing, as opposed to being strangled somewhere else in the room or the house and then carried or dragged to the railing. I am sure you are correct that they were probably posed after they were dead. As you know, it has been stated that based on the autopsy/s results, the belts were not the ligatures that were used to kill them.
 

ldlager

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That makes the most sense to me. It would be easier to walk them there and restrain them to the railing. And I agree about the pool room, there seems to be little floor space to manoeuvre.

The bothersome thing is in this quote (and in another article I’d have to search for) emphasis mine:

“Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their basement swimming pool room on December 15, 2017. As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool. For six weeks, police seriously considered the possibility that they died of double suicide or murder suicide, before determining on January 26, 2018 that it was a “targeted” double murder.”
‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses

It makes it sound to me as if they died in one position, and there are signs they were moved into the position they were found.

If that’s true, and the killer was staging this as a m/s, he made errors the pathologists found, imo.

I don't interpret this wording as saying they were moved. It only refers to them being posed. Which could mean crossing the legs, replacing the glasses etc. But not necessarily moving them from another place. MOO
 
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