CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

Status
Not open for further replies.
new to this case
the very first thing that is bizzare to me
is HOW exactly..was this suspected as murder/suicide
how does this happen using belts and how could it be staged this way ! ..why was this even suspected ?
also very clrealy an inside job .. with many gain/revenge motives around...how is it still unsolved
is there any physical evidence from the scene ?
Welcome! Their wrists were bound but the items used to bind them weren't found. In fact, the cops overlooked that in the beginning and it was only discovered when the private autopsy was done.
 
I think HS turned off the alarm when she came home. The murderers didn't bother to put it on when they left.
They didn't care.
Or maybe they did not know how to reset it, and wanted to leave the property as soon as they could after the murders and staging. Not re-setting it, and leaving Barry's papers on the floor, where they likely fell, when he was attacked as he entered the basement, and even leaving Honey's phone on the upstairs powder room floor -- a washroom she never used, were sloppy. This gives credance to KD's belief that they were not skilled, professional, hired killers. They might have had military training in killing, but not staging, or making sure the murder scene was really clean from any incriminating evidence left behind. IMO
 
Off-topic, but it possibly answers a question I had about LE tracking JS’s cryptocurrency activity in Japan:
@ch_13 wrote this on another thread where the topic of tracking cryptocurrency came up:
“Any wallet address / public key that is known to be associated with him can be monitored for transactions.

In other words, you wouldn't necessarily know if someone has his private key, but you would know if someone uses his wallet to transfer any cryptocurrency.”

JS said he was learning and investing in cryptocurrency in Japan prior to the murders. The question came up if the police could somehow monitor the transactions. The answer seemed to be no, but his crypto wallet activity may prove to be useful. (For example if they link him to the crime and to an accomplice who was paid using cryptocurrency, they could also look at their wallet activity.)

FWIW, JS showed KD a photo of his hand and crypto seed phrase as proof of where he was on the night of the murders. (Also an indication the wallet is no longer in use and the police were given that same information.)
 
Last edited:
is it considered a botched investigation then ? or maybe they know who it is but not having enough ?
Botched. They called it M/S at first and didn't change that for 6 weeks. Who knows where it would be if the family hadn't hired a high profile lawyer who brought in his own team. Police said there were
 
Or maybe they did not know how to reset it, and wanted to leave the property as soon as they could after the murders and staging. Not re-setting it, and leaving Barry's papers on the floor, where they likely fell, when he was attacked as he entered the basement, and even leaving Honey's phone on the upstairs powder room floor -- a washroom she never used, were sloppy. This gives credance to KD's belief that they were not skilled, professional, hired killers. They might have had military training in killing, but not staging, or making sure the murder scene was really clean from any incriminating evidence left behind. IMO
If the documents, the glove and the cell phone weren't also a part of the staging?? Who knows exactly.
 
Botched. They called it M/S at first and didn't change that for 6 weeks. Who knows where it would be if the family hadn't hired a high profile lawyer who brought in his own team. Police said there were
so many questions ..but how did they know that person in the video could be a suspect ! and how was that supposed to be helpful..its not even distingushly male
how is it that with all that crazy money.. they had no tight security ! where are all the cctv
is it possible the person who went in to check on the bodies tempered with evidence ?
does anyone else find the big ( award ) money suspect in its self ? if its an inside job ..there is no info anyone can get from outside...
 
so many questions ..but how did they know that person in the video could be a suspect ! and how was that supposed to be helpful..its not even distingushly male
how is it that with all that crazy money.. they had no tight security ! where are all the cctv
is it possible the person who went in to check on the bodies tempered with evidence ?
does anyone else find the big ( award ) money suspect in its self ? if its an inside job ..there is no info anyone can get from outside...
By the time police declared it a double murder they had already lost 6 weeks. Most of the police force was focused on the Bruce Mcarthur serial killer and IMO just wanted to write this one off as a m/s.

I don't think anyone tampered with the bodies. The bodies were located in the pool area which no one usually frequented. They were discovered by the real estate agent who was showing the house to clients as they had their house up for sale.

As far as the reward money goes, I don't find that suspicious because this family was worth BILLIONS. What I do find suspicious is that they increased the reward money and IMO I think it was increased because someone in that family is confident that these murders will never be solved therefore they will never have to pay out that reward. JMO
 

I don't really understand all of this business stuff but does this mean W.P Carey paid 468 million to own Apotex and they are making yearly payments for the next 20 yrs? I'm a bit confused because I thought we didn't know how much Apotex sold for?
 

I don't really understand all of this business stuff but does this mean W.P Carey paid 468 million to own Apotex and they are making yearly payments for the next 20 yrs? I'm a bit confused because I thought we didn't know how much Apotex sold for?

It’s a purchase of properties owned by Apotex.

It was part of the sale, with the properties being leased back to Apotex. I assume it was done in part to lower the acquisition cost.
 
It’s a purchase of properties owned by Apotex.

It was part of the sale, with the properties being leased back to Apotex. I assume it was done in part to lower the acquisition cost.
Also companies like to separate ownership of land and operations for various financial/investment reasons. This is why REITs exist.
 
So is the former Apotex still in place or has it been moved? It employed a lot of people.
2022
''With a significant presence in North America and India, Apotex employs a global workforce of nearly 8,000 people.''

''Who pays severance if SK Capital doesn’t want to keep certain Apotex employees?​

If the sale of Apotex to SK Capital results in you losing your job, then Apotex must provide you with full severance pay.

In Canada, the seller of the business is responsible for providing proper compensation to affected staff.

If you do receive an employment offer from SK Capital, and have a good reason for why you don’t want to accept it (i.e. different hours or pay), you can still get full severance pay from Apotex.

Even without a good reason you can still get severance, but you would only receive your minimum entitlements.''
 
Welcome! Their wrists were bound but the items used to bind them weren't found. In fact, the cops overlooked that in the beginning and it was only discovered when the private autopsy was done.
When did LE start searching the sewers, before or after the second (private) autopsy?
This is important since it is believed that they were searching for zip ties in the sewers.
 
Last edited:
When did LE start searching the sewers, before or after the second (private) autopsy?
Prior to second autopsy, imo, speculation. rbbm.
Dec 23, 2017
''Forensic investigators are now combing through sewers looking for clues into the deaths of a billionaire Canadian couple "out of an abundance of caution," a source close to the investigation has told CBC Toronto''

''They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence.

The team plans to comb through more sewers near the Sherman's mansion on 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401 as soon as they can coordinate the operation with the city. ''

''The forensics team were assisting homicide detectives who have officially taken the lead in the case although it remains a "suspicious death investigation," rather than a homicide.''
 
By the time police declared it a double murder they had already lost 6 weeks. Most of the police force was focused on the Bruce Mcarthur serial killer and IMO just wanted to write this one off as a m/s.

I don't think anyone tampered with the bodies. The bodies were located in the pool area which no one usually frequented. They were discovered by the real estate agent who was showing the house to clients as they had their house up for sale.

As far as the reward money goes, I don't find that suspicious because this family was worth BILLIONS. What I do find suspicious is that they increased the reward money and IMO I think it was increased because someone in that family is confident that these murders will never be solved therefore they will never have to pay out that reward. JMO
who i meant is the gardener ? who went in to check the bodies ALONE ? WHILE the agent waited ? isnt this what i got from the timeline
how did those ppl get inside ? did all of them had keys ?
I gree about raising the award every little bit..
is it speculated here that the killer/s might be one of those having gain from the new will ?
 
In
When did LE start searching the sewers, before or after the second (private) autopsy?
This is important since it is believed that they were searching for zip ties in the sewers.
I am pretty sure after the autopsies.
The autopsies took place between the 16 and 17 th of December and the police started looking in the drains and sewers around December 23 rd.
 
who i meant is the gardener ? who went in to check the bodies ALONE ? WHILE the agent waited ? isnt this what i got from the timeline
how did those ppl get inside ? did all of them had keys ?
I gree about raising the award every little bit..
is it speculated here that the killer/s might be one of those having gain from the new will ?
I'm having trouble with your sentence structure. If you're asking who the gardener is, she goes in to water the indoor plants. The realtor saw the bodies and then ushered the other realtor and his clients out, and then went upstairs and asked the cleaner to go and check. She refused and the gardener went. She came back and said they were dead. There is a lockbox for realtors since the house was for sale but it's likely the cleaning lady had her own key. The others came in after her so she likely let them in.
 
In

I am pretty sure after the autopsies.
The autopsies took place between the 16 and 17 th of December and the police started looking in the drains and sewers around December 23 rd.
The second autopsies were performed on the day prior to the funeral, Dec 20th, 2017:

Embalming and visitation are not part of the Jewish funeral custom, so it was possible to conduct the autopsies on Wednesday and have the funeral on Thursday.


Police were seen searching the sewers on the day after their bodies were discovered (according to ctv), but who knows if they were looking for ties, or something else?

 
Prior to second autopsy, imo, speculation. rbbm.
Dec 23, 2017
''Forensic investigators are now combing through sewers looking for clues into the deaths of a billionaire Canadian couple "out of an abundance of caution," a source close to the investigation has told CBC Toronto''

''They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence.

The team plans to comb through more sewers near the Sherman's mansion on 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401 as soon as they can coordinate the operation with the city. ''

''The forensics team were assisting homicide detectives who have officially taken the lead in the case although it remains a "suspicious death investigation," rather than a homicide.''
Zip ties, for example, are made from plastic, afaik. So I wonder, for what did they search the sewers really? Which metal did they hope to find with the magnet? Which metal can be a clue in a double murder case, except ammunition? The ear clip with some metal on it was found outside in the snow: not explainable since 5 years, but after all it makes more sense than if the part had been found in the sewer, IMO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
135
Guests online
3,801
Total visitors
3,936

Forum statistics

Threads
592,632
Messages
17,972,178
Members
228,846
Latest member
therealdrreid
Back
Top