CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

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FWIW, imo.
''This expression may be used as a way of preventing attempted negotiation or argumentation – if your hands are tied, then there is no point in someone challenging the situation because there is no other option available.''
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May 19 2023
''The four children of slain billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman squabble over their new-found riches, but only two really want power. Hanging over all of this is the possibility that Honey had a will.

This is the final episode of “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman,” a “Suspicion” podcast probing the strange case of the famous Toronto couple who were found strangled in their north Toronto home in 2017. For five years, reporter Kevin Donovan has covered the case for the Star, fought court battles to access documents on the police investigation and the Sherman estate, and wrote a book about it.''
For non-subscribers, the final (for now) episode is available now.
 
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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“‎I cannot alter the past, but the future is very much in my hands.”


Keep on with the wrist ligatures. Much remains unexplained as to the hands and their relevance. They would help facilitate a controlled discussion or even a "lesson" or "lecture" before the end? How does binding blend with the assumption both were immediately ambushed? They seem to have no practical relevance to the murder-suicide staging, else why not leave them on?

Zero spent an inordinate amount of time on the wrists with KD, it would seem. Still, no answers... Keep on.
It could be a habit of the killer to use a straight jacketing technique and hand restraints in order to control people.
 
Do you mean someone who might work in a jail, a mental h. institution, or into bdsm? speculation.
Yes, the second one uses strait jackets. Someone not only subdued them and killed them but also dragged them dead to the pool area too. It requires some strength and coordination if it was done by only one person.
 
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Yes, the second one uses strait jackets. Someone not only subdued them and killed them but also dragged them dead to the pool area too. It requires some strength and coordination if it was done by only one person.
Half a twin and a quarter of four make me, but I am not one.
 
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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PART IV - The Ties

What is the most compelling answer as to what happened post ambush at the respective doors? HS upstairs. BS in the garage. They breach those doors and then bam, they are ambushed. HS maybe by one killer. BS likely by two. But what happens. Are they directly strangled? So HS has facial wounds due to the fact she may have almost overpowered the one killer? So she gets away momentarily, enough to palm the phone but is ultimately subdued in the room. Maybe gets off a call that gets lost, maybe not. She is likely then killed immediately. We know that HS wounds show she suffered them either immediately before or after asphyxiation. So she was likely either hit, subdued and strangled right away or subdued, strangled, and the wounds were from the stairs. I don't see it as conceivable that they bound her and then you know, engaged with her, and punched her, etc. This idea that they were alive together at some point (BS and HS), I don't see. Why take such care with BS body, if the intent was to torture him that way? Makes little sense.

Then to BS. He parks, none the wiser to the force awaiting him downstairs. Likely by this time a two man team. He is subdued immediately and strangled. HS is likely already strung up given the gap in time between when they got home. Killers then clean up and leave. Most likely based on everything I have reviewed is that industrial zip ties were used for the wrists and ligatures. Here, they likely had them made up, as the police do. So the need for the big baggy coat on WM. Watch the video and zoom way way way, at times it appears that its obviously an oversized jacket. The size of the legs at various angles, etc. Hard to say for sure as the quality is horrible, but a thought. So they use the ties around the neck to kill them then they snip them. Did the autopsy look for that sort of detail, where they would gave been snipped? Then the wrists. A huge mystery. Why bind them and when? One reason to bind them would be to neutralize the situation. Lots could happen if you try to strangle them directly, things could go wrong. But with the wrists bound, you impose less of a deadly threat. You could conceivably negotiate. But from the point of view of the killer, once the hands are bound they are neutralized. The hard part is over. This may also point to the fact the team was composed of one person at the time of HS attack and death. Then later joined by the accomplice. Of course, there is credence to a one man team, its just seems less likely on balance.
 
If there were listening devices: What they (killers) wanted to know, must have been something about the new mansion or/and the financial plans incl. HS/BS' Last Wills, which would have been discussed between BS and HS, I think.

What else should have been important and what else would have dictated a date, when some financial transactions would have to be stopped at last minute per double murder?
I agree. The fact that their Lawyer, who dealt with estate matters was trying to reach them by phone the evening they were murdered, after the meeting with the architects at Apotex, probably explains why Barry told one of the Architects he had to be home early, and Honey was home from shopping before Barry arrived. It looks like they both wanted to have a conversation with their lawyer about estate matters, and probably new wills for each of them. Honey said earlier that same week when she uncharacteristically canceled attending an important charity meeting, that she was"dealing with some stuff", and she told a friend that she had updated her will. Perhaps she had hand written what she wanted the lawyer to include, and would have used that in their discussion that night. The killers likely took that away if it was in plain sight, as well as any notes or copies of wills that Barry had with him. It does seem that they were murdered at "the eleventh hour" before they could make financial changes that would have had great affect on their heirs/and or close business associates.
I think the staging of the bodies was not an attempt to copy the positions of the life size statues in the next room, but an attempt to make it look like murder suicide. If Barry was posed to look like he was calmly resting, and at peace, with his legs crossed, and his glasses perched perfectly on his nose, while Honey had injuries to her face, and some blood pooled near her body, it might give the impression that Barry carried out the murder, then suicide. The problem with that is that anyone who hangs themselves would have some involuntary head, neck, and leg movements, likely moving the glasses, and the legs would unlikely be crossed. Also the killers failed to understand that the zip tie marks on the wrists would show up in an autopsy. If Honey and Barry had jackets pulled down, as a type of restraint, that could also look suspicious to TPS, although the killers may have thought that it would look like Barry did that to restrain Honey, and then managed to to do that to himself to make it easier for him to go through with it. It seems to me that for a man who had access to so many lethal drugs, and who understood them, if he were going to carry out a murder suicide, he would have used drugs. If he had killed Honey in anger, he could still have used drugs on himself. The fact that Honey's phone was left in the upstairs bathroom, and Barry's papers were left in the basement hall, where they probably fell after a struggle, also indicates killers, who were not professionals, as KD has already speculated.
More and more, it looks it seems, IMO that it is a case of" follow the money", and who was desperate to stop Barry, as well as Honey from changing their wills? Who benefited, and who had motive?
 
I agree. The fact that their Lawyer, who dealt with estate matters was trying to reach them by phone the evening they were murdered, after the meeting with the architects at Apotex, probably explains why Barry told one of the Architects he had to be home early, and Honey was home from shopping before Barry arrived. It looks like they both wanted to have a conversation with their lawyer about estate matters, and probably new wills for each of them. Honey said earlier that same week when she uncharacteristically canceled attending an important charity meeting, that she was"dealing with some stuff", and she told a friend that she had updated her will. Perhaps she had hand written what she wanted the lawyer to include, and would have used that in their discussion that night. The killers likely took that away if it was in plain sight, as well as any notes or copies of wills that Barry had with him. It does seem that they were murdered at "the eleventh hour" before they could make financial changes that would have had great affect on their heirs/and or close business associates.
I think the staging of the bodies was not an attempt to copy the positions of the life size statues in the next room, but an attempt to make it look like murder suicide. If Barry was posed to look like he was calmly resting, and at peace, with his legs crossed, and his glasses perched perfectly on his nose, while Honey had injuries to her face, and some blood pooled near her body, it might give the impression that Barry carried out the murder, then suicide. The problem with that is that anyone who hangs themselves would have some involuntary head, neck, and leg movements, likely moving the glasses, and the legs would unlikely be crossed. Also the killers failed to understand that the zip tie marks on the wrists would show up in an autopsy. If Honey and Barry had jackets pulled down, as a type of restraint, that could also look suspicious to TPS, although the killers may have thought that it would look like Barry did that to restrain Honey, and then managed to to do that to himself to make it easier for him to go through with it. It seems to me that for a man who had access to so many lethal drugs, and who understood them, if he were going to carry out a murder suicide, he would have used drugs. If he had killed Honey in anger, he could still have used drugs on himself. The fact that Honey's phone was left in the upstairs bathroom, and Barry's papers were left in the basement hall, where they probably fell after a struggle, also indicates killers, who were not professionals, as KD has already speculated.
More and more, it looks it seems, IMO that it is a case of" follow the money", and who was desperate to stop Barry, as well as Honey from changing their wills? Who benefited, and who had motive?
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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Here's a clue: focus on behavior escalation over time...
 
IMO, the killer(s) did not attempt to stage them as a M/S. No rational person would ever look at two bodies strung up loosely off the floor by belts as a M/S. How TPS ever jumped to that conclusion is beyond me. I also question if TPS ever actually believed it was M/S based on their actions of dusting HS car for prints, checking sewage drains, etc. I can't explain why they ever stated that it was M/S unless they were trying to buy themselves time or what. I don't know.

I think they took the zip ties with them so they didn't leave behind any traceable evidence or DNA. I think HS was restrained and they tried to get info out of her, most likely about her will. They also wanted info out of BS before they killed him.

Or maybe they wanted them each (especially HS) restrained so they finally had control over them after a lifetime of frustration. Maybe someone wanted the last word and the eulogy wasn't enough. All MOO, of course.

If there were two suspects, I can't figure out how one escaped completely undetected by any cameras in the neighborhood.
 
IMO, the killer(s) did not attempt to stage them as a M/S. No rational person would ever look at two bodies strung up loosely off the floor by belts as a M/S. How TPS ever jumped to that conclusion is beyond me. I also question if TPS ever actually believed it was M/S based on their actions of dusting HS car for prints, checking sewage drains, etc. I can't explain why they ever stated that it was M/S unless they were trying to buy themselves time or what. I don't know.

I think they took the zip ties with them so they didn't leave behind any traceable evidence or DNA. I think HS was restrained and they tried to get info out of her, most likely about her will. They also wanted info out of BS before they killed him.

Or maybe they wanted them each (especially HS) restrained so they finally had control over them after a lifetime of frustration. Maybe someone wanted the last word and the eulogy wasn't enough. All MOO, of course.

If there were two suspects, I can't figure out how one escaped completely undetected by any cameras in the neighborhood.
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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Wise grasshopper.

To understand your TPS theory more, ask what they stood to gain by pretending they thought it was a murder-suicide. They told you they'd been monitoring people for suspicious behaviour during the investigation. What did they stand to gain?

The interrogation scene, maybe. Its possible they asked for a will. Very possible.

On the last point, yes. This is a rationale position to hold based on the available evidence. The problem is we don't have everything. The police have been very conservative with information since locking down after the initial debacle of a rollout to the investigation. They could have tape. But it does call do mind, a comment from Detective Sgt. Brandon Price along the lines of "walking was the suspect's general mode of travel". They may have a lot of blurry tape they are not hinting at. KD hasn't wandered to comment on this specifically. Like is there a likely spot in the remaining warrant files that are sealed that has a bunch of screengrabs. If they exist, they would be in those sealed files.
 
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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Wise grasshopper.

To understand your TPS theory more, ask what they stood to gain by pretending they thought it was a murder-suicide. They told you they'd been monitoring people for suspicious behaviour during the investigation. What did they stand to gain?

The interrogation scene, maybe. Its possible they asked for a will. Very possible.

On the last point, yes. This is a rationale position to hold based on the available evidence. The problem is we don't have everything. The police have been very conservative with information since locking down after the initial debacle of a rollout to the investigation. They could have tape. But it does call do mind, a comment from Detective Sgt. Brandon Price along the lines of "walking was the suspect's general mode of travel". They may have a lot of blurry tape they are not hinting at. KD hasn't wandered to comment on this specifically. Like is there a likely spot in the remaining warrant files that are sealed that has a bunch of screengrabs. If they exist, they would be in those sealed files.

I'm thinking TPS was hoping the killer(s) would become complacent and make a mistake if they thought TPS wasn't investigating it as a double homicide.

Excellent point that we have no idea what TPS may have as far as a second suspect on surveillance, etc. God knows, they took long enough to tell us about the NW.
 
I'm thinking TPS was hoping the killer(s) would become complacent and make a mistake if they thought TPS wasn't investigating it as a double homicide.

Excellent point that we have no idea what TPS may have as far as a second suspect on surveillance, etc. God knows, they took long enough to tell us about the NW.
Correct. The main counter point being KDs entire body of work, BG and the PI team ripping them apart, and the fact that nearly the entire homicide squad was on the MacArthur case for the first month of the Sherman probe. But, its still conceivable they saw it for what it was but underestimated the family's reaction to it all and the PI team. That is still plausible to me. But the above makes it less plausible on balance.
 
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Suspicious: User Drita Rada on the Youtube comment section of the Chapter 2 of the CBC podcast...
 
If there actually were any holes in the wall? we have an un founded report of someone who said they did all of this and never gave any photo's as proof? to me it is just a story and without video or photo back up it is useless red flags to mull over for me.

But if it is true, if so at what height on the wall are the holes, how many, what size? a fist or a foot or a sledge hammer? were they cut with a saw?

Logically if holes did exist it could have been the crime scene collection and it has potential evidence on the walls like a hand print or something?
But KD did see the photos and video.
He promised not to show them or reveal the name of the person.
The urban x guy was trespassing.
 
Correct. The main counter point being KDs entire body of work, BG and the PI team ripping them apart, and the fact that nearly the entire homicide squad was on the MacArthur case for the first month of the Sherman probe. But, its still conceivable they saw it for what it was but underestimated the family's reaction to it all and the PI team. That is still plausible to me. But the above makes it less plausible on balance.

I felt like I was probably giving TPS too much credit even as I typed it.
 
The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

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“‎I cannot alter the past, but the future is very much in my hands.”


Keep on with the wrist ligatures. Much remains unexplained as to the hands and their relevance. They would help facilitate a controlled discussion or even a "lesson" or "lecture" before the end? How does binding blend with the assumption both were immediately ambushed? They seem to have no practical relevance to the murder-suicide staging, else why not leave them on?

Zero spent an inordinate amount of time on the wrists with KD, it would seem. Still, no answers... Keep on.
Keep on? Bonus? No offense, but are you the keeper of secrets? The conductor of the thread? Or do you simply have opinions like the rest of us?

Just my opinion, but the long cut and paste preamble to your posts doesn’t provide a free pass to imply that opinions - and declarative statements made but posed as questions - are facts. I respectfully request that in the future you use qualifying phrases such as: my opinion, or, I think, or moo, etc., to prevent any thread reader from wrongly concluding that an opinion is a fact. Tia
 
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