CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

[MerlinFalcon]

Just a thought: Is it possible, that HS/BS suddenly thought, their home wasn't safe for a meeting with the builders of the giant and very expensive new mansion? Is it possible, that BS was afraid, they would be bugged? Is it possible, BS felt more safe in his own office at Apotex (whether rightly or wrongly)?
IMO, the sudden change of location must have meant something, especially since the events might have started with the meeting.

Didn't they also own a condo in Toronto? If they truly felt unsafe they probably would have gone there instead.

 

[48OldColony]

KD says he hasn’t seen the CIBC video. Although in his last Q&A he also said he would withhold info from the public if he thought doing so would help his investigation.

The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

---------------
Yes. KD knows much more than us. His access to files and sources alone. He has things off the record he's mentioned and then of course we don't know all of what he hasn't told us he has off the record.

Still, I think his build up and commentary on the case is important. He believes he has the same theory/suspects that TPS has. His pod and the new Crave trailer really lead to some assumed conclusions on his part. He just can't say it because he doesn't have definitive evidence.

Again, he is on record with a theory and suspect(s). On record saying that. Look at his podcast from the 30k view - who does he spend the most time on? Who does he make comments about such as "I've thought about that email a lot" or "it still strikes me as one of the strangest comments"....,etc.

I suspect he may break some news at some point suggestive that someone we know is under investigation. But that would be court ordered if it happened - TPS is locking it all down and saying the bear minimum for perhaps obvious prosecutorial reasons?

But KDs book, pod, and the crave trailer really focus in on certain theories, it would seem...

In the pod, he also throws in some legally protective statements and quotes...

 

[newclues]

Who was a nurse?

 

[RHR]

I am not very familiar with in depth computer security, but I think I have heard that if someone has access to your computer -- no special security passwords to open the browser, and they can physically access it, or send some kind of virus by email, that a key- stroke- logger can be installed that would in effect copy your every work typed, and allow the spy to see it on their computer. Other spy ware would allow them to read all your emails, both those sent to you, and those you send. Something similar could likely be applied to a smart phone. I know too from watching some crime tv shows, that something as simple as a pen can be left in a room. This "pen" is in fact a microphone, and outsiders can listen to conversations in the same room as "the pen". These days many hidden cameras and listening devices are vert small, and can be easily hidden in houses, then retrieved before a police search. I also think computers leave trails that a cyber expert can find later if software like some kind of spyware has been installed. TPS seemed to have evidence of surveillance for one month before the murders. I think anyone with a certain amount of technical knowledge could do this, including perhaps JS or the killers. Many young people, just teenagers can today carry out such activities if they have a certain level of computer sophistication. It would be interesting to know how tech savey are people in the immediate Sherman family, and others close to them who would benefit from Barry's will at the time of his death.

We do not know what made Alexandra so afraid of JS. Was it something he said, or maybe something she found out about her own computer, her husband's, or did she see something on JS's computer or phone, when he was visiting. After the murders she divorced her husband, who was friends with JS, and went on trips with him. Is there any indication she was afraid of him too? Just speculation, and IMO.

I don’t think you would need spy equipment to monitor HS’s emails.
She didn’t have a password.
Her nephew talked at the funeral about how she would call him to help her with the computer.
Sheila Stanley her assistant Saif she didn’t have a password. I may be wrong but I’m sure I read in one of KD’s articles that she checked Honey’s emails on the Saturday.
I think she was in Cuba when she checked.

 

[48OldColony]

I don’t think you would need spy equipment to monitor HS’s emails.
She didn’t have a password.
Her nephew talked at the funeral about how she would call him to help her with the computer.
Sheila Stanley her assistant Saif she didn’t have a password. I may be wrong but I’m sure I read in one of KD’s articles that she checked Honey’s emails on the Saturday.
I think she was in Cuba when she checked.

KD Article:

Monday, Dec. 11: Sheila Stanley, Honey’s personal assistant, arrives as she always does at 10 a.m. at Old Colony. She works for Honey each weekday from 10 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. As she later tells the police she manages Honey’s schedule, makes her bill payments and even helps “dressing Honey for events.” Honey’s sister Mary handles travel plans. Honey’s schedule is accessible from her iPhone and iPad and as Stanley tells police, no password is needed. The one major change to the week is that Stanley has been given Thursday and Friday off because her family is heading to Mexico for a winter vacation.

 

[RHR]

Didn't they also own a condo in Toronto? If they truly felt unsafe they probably would have gone there instead.

I don’t know anything about them owning an apartment.
That doesn’t seem like them.
I think the meeting was at the office because
they had the phone call planed with DH at 9 pm.
If they had the meeting with Joe Brennan at 5.30 at OCR that would mean BS would have to come home super early and lose hours of work.
I think it was them accommodating each other. Honey had plans to go and buy gifts and get cash for Christmas bonuses so it was just a matter of working around BS to allow him to have those extra few hours.

 

[ldlager]

Someone who wants complete control, could very well have insisted on being present, even if he did not carry out the actual strangulation. IMO

He or she

 

[48OldColony]

KD 2020:
And, in a second indication of activity on the almost three-year-old case, detectives have recently served a search warrant somewhere in Canada.

“The results (of these searches) have yielded new evidence and have assisted investigators in corroborating existing evidence, such as witness statements, tips and video surveillance,” according to Det.-Const. Dennis Yim of the Toronto homicide unit. Yim made these statements in an affidavit filed in court as part of an ongoing proceeding where the Toronto Star is seeking access to sealed police investigative files.

The foreign country is not identified in the Yim affidavit. It is one of 35 countries that have a special treaty with Canada — Israel, the United States, Italy, Austria and Mexico are examples.

KD 2022:
First, they collected roughly 300 cellular telephone numbers from the Sherman family, friends, business associates, and people who worked for the Shermans. Those numbers and the associated names went into a spreadsheet. According to the documents, these were numbers that came from several sources. First, interviews police conducted — detectives asked people for their cellular phone number or numbers of people that the interviewee speculated could have committed the murders. Documents released reveal that the Sherman family and some friends were pointing fingers at three individuals not named in the documents (police say they have found no evidence these individuals were involved.) Police also received 18 cellphone numbers from tips the public made directly to Toronto Police; 41 numbers from tips made to a dedicated Sherman murder tip line police set up a year into the case; and 184 numbers passed on by the Sherman family’s private investigation team led by criminal lawyer Brian Greenspan.

Of additional interest in the newly-released documents is the fact that something police discovered in the tower dumps caused them to run a comparison with information police received in an international production order they obtained in 2020. Canadian police, through the federal government, can gather information overseas with 35 countries covered by what is known as a “mutual legal assistance treaty.”

The final page of police documents released to the Star as of Monday has a completely blacked-out section headed, “Relevant results from mutual legal assistance treaties.”

And a week later:

KD in 2022:

But Yim told court that police failed to come up with any relevant information when they compared the “tower dumps” to those 300 cellphone numbers. Nor did they have success in comparing it with some other information they had gathered from a production order served somewhere outside Canada. Police will not say which country was involved or what the information was. Yim said there is still a second out-of-country production order served a year ago and they still await the results.

Now, Yim told court during cross-examination, police are focusing their efforts elsewhere.

“The investigation has gone on to a different phase,” said Yim, but he did not describe what he meant. The documents show police have received two batches of information, apparently from people they had previously interviewed. The pages describing that information are completely redacted (even the headings), and police say to reveal this would hurt their probe by revealing “persons of interest.”

The Star is arguing that police are too liberally using that definition, telling the court that a person speculating that someone may have been upset with Barry and Honey does not justify sealing the documents.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

He or she

Do you believe a female may have been at the home that night and involved with the murders?

I’ve had that impression from the beginning.

 

[atomicsciencegal]

Do you believe a female may have been at the home that night and involved with the murders?

I’ve had that impression from the beginning.

Im with @48OldColony above in post #42 - referring to the strange comment and email.

 

[Sphinx]

Do you believe a female may have been at the home that night and involved with the murders?

I’ve had that impression from the beginning.

Very interesting comment, Lexi. What makes you think that a female may have been at the house that night? I tend to think it would take two men to have the strength to gain physical control over both Honey and Barry quickly, then strangle them, and move the bodies.

I have wondered all along if perhaps some household staff might have been supplying personal information to the person organizing the murders. A very large bribe could have been supplied. This person may have also acted as a lookout outside by maybe walking a dog. There was mention of a couple doing just that, in the neighbourhood that night, but it may have been innocent, and not connected with the case. Just my speculation. IMO

 

[atomicsciencegal]

Very interesting comment, Lexi. What makes you think that a female may have been at the house that night? I tend to think it would take two men to have the strength to gain physical control over both Honey and Barry quickly, then strangle them, and move the bodies.

I have wondered all along if perhaps some household staff might have been supplying personal information to the person organizing the murders. A very large bribe could have been supplied. This person may have also acted as a lookout outside by maybe walking a dog. There was mention of a couple doing just that, in the neighbourhood that night, but it may have been innocent, and not connected with the case. Just my speculation. IMO

We could also perhaps look at it from the angle that personal information may have been supplied to the organizer by the staff (no bribe) simply because the organizer had the ‘right’ to know the information and the ‘right’ to ask staff questions about it - and for the staff to not find that suspicious.

 

[RHR]

Who was a nurse?

?

 

[Window21]

?

One of the daughters is a nurse. I think it is AK?

 

[RHR]

One of the daughters is a nurse. I think it is AK?

Yes Alex.
She does not work as a nurse from what I understand.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Very interesting comment, Lexi. What makes you think that a female may have been at the house that night? I tend to think it would take two men to have the strength to gain physical control over both Honey and Barry quickly, then strangle them, and move the bodies.

I have wondered all along if perhaps some household staff might have been supplying personal information to the person organizing the murders. A very large bribe could have been supplied. This person may have also acted as a lookout outside by maybe walking a dog. There was mention of a couple doing just that, in the neighbourhood that night, but it may have been innocent, and not connected with the case. Just my speculation. IMO

I’ve had that impression based on the attention to detail in how the bodies were staged and how Honey suffered an injury to her face. Honey seemed to be treated with less respect compared to Barry during and after the crime. It seems like something a spiteful female would do to another female, imo.

I think a male was present as well. Like you said it took strength to do what they did, and it was brutal. I think the female tried to reframe the crime scene into something more gentle than it actually was, but she purposely left Honey with less care.

Just my opinion, and impression. And I’m not sure if it’s a female or an effeminate male.

 

[48OldColony]

I’ve had that impression based on the attention to detail in how the bodies were staged and how Honey suffered an injury to her face. Honey seemed to be treated with less respect compared to Barry during and after the crime. It seems like something a spiteful female would do to another female, imo.

I think a male was present as well. Like you said it took strength to do what they did, and it was brutal. I think the female tried to reframe the crime scene into something more gentle than it actually was, but she purposely left Honey with less care.

Just my opinion, and impression. And I’m not sure if it’s a female or an effeminate male.

<modsnip: Ridiculing input by others is not allowed> Nothing from forensics would suggest female over male. The aggression, violence, and tall order of the crime obviously tilts towards male. And the NW, likely the muscle, was male...

As to whether a female was present - we do not even know if anyone else was present (whether TPS has footprint evidence in the snow or other video) or if the offences themselves were done by a one man show.

 

[Sphinx]

I’ve had that impression based on the attention to detail in how the bodies were staged and how Honey suffered an injury to her face. Honey seemed to be treated with less respect compared to Barry during and after the crime. It seems like something a spiteful female would do to another female, imo.

I think a male was present as well. Like you said it took strength to do what they did, and it was brutal. I think the female tried to reframe the crime scene into something more gentle than it actually was, but she purposely left Honey with less care.

Just my opinion, and impression. And I’m not sure if it’s a female or an effeminate male.

Again, a very interesting point, Lexi, that it could have been an effeminate male as part of the probably 2 person team that did the actual killing, and staging. There may or may not have been a look out as well. Effeminate men can still be physically strong. Given the number of alternate lifestyles connected to JS, and JS himself, it is a very astute comment, about a possible scenario.
One other thought I had this morning, is that the person who finds the body, or bodies, is often connected to the actual crime, and wants to be able to "explain" any of their dna found on the bodies, or at the murder scene. I believe the female realtor saw the bodies, but sent one of the housekeepers down to verify the death. One of the housekeepers was also found mopping the floor, in I believe the front hall (where Honey may have been first attacked ?) while TPS were first called to the scene, and were investigating inside the house. They finally stopped her. Was evidence being removed deliberately, or inadvertently? Again, just speculation, and IMO.

 

[newclues]

Y

One of the daughters is a nurse. I think it is AK?

Yes, but who else was a nurse?

 

[newclues]

<modsnip: Ridiculing input by others is not allowed> Nothing from forensics would suggest female over male. The aggression, violence, and tall order of the crime obviously tilts towards male. And the NW, likely the muscle, was male...

As to whether a female was present - we do not even know if anyone else was present (whether TPS has footprint evidence in the snow or other video) or if the offences themselves were done by a one man show.

Who potentially had the strength and skill to carry it out all alone?