Discussion in '1990's Missing' started by sillybilly, Oct 21, 2015.
I take it that the mods erased those last few messages regarding the bainalive poster?
Unidentified remains found in ditch at 401 and morningside. Saw on cp24 LE pulling long bone from bullrushes and placing in a brown paper bag. Bone was brown and looked old. Just in case....
The bones at Morningside and 401 are male.
Autopsy on human remains discovered near Hwy. 401 finds they are of a male | The Star
28yrs ago tonight you were taken from the world Elizabeth Bain.
We have never forgotten and we will never forget or ever give up.
We will bring you home one day.
Was Bernardo's residence on Sir Raymond Dr, Scarborough ever searched for evidence? He was still living at this parental address at time of EB's disappearance. Receipts & witness place him in Scarborough/UT Scarb at time of EB disap. He attacked & killed a girl in his St Catharines home, so within his MO. At least one of his previous rape victims reported she believed a woman was filming the incident. (stairwell one, I believe). PB & KH had already met & KH already had access to animal clinic drugs from an employer, at time of EB's disap. If home was never searched, perhaps it still should be. Esp in light of what is now known about how he hid tapes.
Hey Track. Thanks for joining in.
1)No, his home on sir Raymond was never searched in regards to EB's disappearance. RB had already been convicted so there was no thoughts whatsoever about PB.
I'm not sure how KH's sisters death has any related MO to EB's disappearance?
KH's sister was purely an accidental death/killing. They had no intentions of killing her or her dying.
2)The reports of EB being seen with a blonde guy at the University on the day she disappeared are not true.
2)The report from the Bell employee was not on the night/day she disappeared, and was never confirmed to be EB.
3)There is no evidence that PB had anything to do with EB's disappearance.
Hope you keep on posting Track.
Thanks again for joining in.
""Receipts place him in Scarborough/UT Scarb at time of EB disap.""
Hey Track, can you elaborate on the above sentence please.
What receipts are you referring to that place PB in the UofT Scarb.
I believe there were some restaurant receipts, that PB frequented in the area, and convenience store purchases/receipts that proved he was in the area at that time
Hi everyone. Thank you Eyesonly, for your notes 1) to 4) above. Here are some futher points.
1) According to what I've read on the net, PB and KH attacked Mahaffy Sat June 15, 1991 in their St Catherines home, 57 Bayview, and video taped it, prior to murdering her. They also used that same residence to attack a rape victim who survived, known only in the public record as "Jane Doe."
2) I will have to look into where I found the info about the receipts.
3) Given that PB is a convicted serial killer, also with a very long string of violent rapes in Scarborough to which he has confessed, and that he & KH were known to have videoed at least one of their crimes, I think a search of his 21 Sir Raymond Dr former residence should be conducted. Here is more info I found on net but have no confirmation of: "December 22 1989, Deneen Chenier was raped in an underground parking garage stairwell at 1580 Sandhurst Circle. Deneen was sure someone else was with the rapist, possibly a woman, holding something in her hand like a video camera." After some time in jail, PB confessed to a number of rapes that LE had not previously connected to him. He said that one was on Sir Raymond Dr. Does anyone know if that rape was matched with a known victim?
Here are 2 other things I would like to know the answer to: Is it known if PB owned a vehicle at the time of EB's disappearance? The last reference I can find is to a gray GMC van he bought with his friends for worm picking, in Jan 1990. Then "March 30, 1990, Kerry Grey, a rape victim, spotted his van at a McDonalds." LE could presumably obtain a copy of his vehicle registratn history. Perhaps his friends the Smirnis brothers, or Paul & Joe Falzone, or PB's family, should be questioned about how long PB had the van, and any other vehicle he may have owned subsequently. The absence of vehicle ownership could possibly explain why a killer would take EB's vehicle, and leave it near a bus route that travels west (past the Sir Raymond Dr area) and then terminated at the Warden subway stn (in the 1990's that was the final east subway stn). Kingston Rd is one of only 2 bus routes that Sir Raymond Dr residents could use to leave the area. Same bus would go close to UT Scarb campus, and past the Silver Dragon Restaurant at 4640 Kingston Rd. The Scarb rapist is known to have stalked women leaving buses at night. LE should have a record of whether Kingston Rd bus was one such route. Also, did anyone ever check if PB had any connections to 3R Auto. Had he ever had a vehicle in there, as a customer? Ever bought anything there? Were his friends familiar with 3R auto? Again, following the geographic picture, it is noteable that 3r auto is very close to where one would turn off Kingston Rd to proceed to Scarb UT campus. Someone who used that route a lot might venture a little further.
you are incorrect there,
Kennedy station was around in the 80's as the final subway station,
warden is second last, and was back then also
I stand corrected. Kennedy station was opened Nov 1980. However, I believe the Kingston Rd bus may still have terminated at Warden Station. I do not know this for sure, but if anyone has that info, it would be of interest to me.
From the Hamilton Spectator newspaper, Apr 23, 2008:
"Baltovich's family hired a private investigator to gather fresh evidence for his appeal. By the time of the appeal in 2004 the defence vigorously argued that Bain was Bernardo's first murder victim..... in pre-trial arguments, McArthur argued there was a powerful body of evidence pointing to the notorious sex killer, including:
· Between March 1986 and May 26, 1990, he committed 21 sex assaults in the Scarborough area – 14 of which the Crown admits – with a pattern of escalating violence.
· He attended U of T's Scarborough campus, from which Bain disappeared, and took his girlfriends to adjoining Colonel Danforth Park. [Track note: he had already graduated at time of EB disappearance]
Receipts found in Bernardo's house in St. Catharines show he frequented various stores in, or near, the Scarborough area around the time of Bain's disappearance. [ Track's note: Would be interesting to see how close to UT campus these receipts indicated]
· An ex-Bernardo girlfriend knew Bain & introduced her to Bernardo in the mid-'80s. The ex-girlfriend had a crush on Bain's brother, caused Bernardo ...a jealous rage.
· Bain was seen at a restaurant with a blond man several weeks before her disappearance. The restaurant was one Bernardo was known to frequent. Around the same time she was seen arguing with a blond man in a red Jeep in a plaza with another Bernardo watering hole.
· At 5:30 p.m. on the day Bain went missing, a female U of T student saw a blond man on the Scarborough campus staring, frightening her as she made a phone booth call. She wrote a description of him and said he resembled a composite drawing of the Scarborough rapist.
· A package of du Maurier Light cigarettes – Bernardo's brand – was in the glove box of Bain's car. The radio was tuned to CFNY 102.1, Bernardo's favourite stn. A New Order recording, another favourite, was in the cassette deck. Together, the findings raise a "reasonable possibility" and include the "probability" Bernardo committed the crime," lawyer James Lockyer, who led the defence team, told Superior Court yesterday."
....In his reply to the defence motions, Crown prosecutor Philip Kotanen argued that the Bernardo theory is highly speculative..... There is no evidence of rape in Bain's murder."
without DNA evidence to place PB in the car all this means nothing,
EB adoptive brother PB and EB sister CB both smoked that same brand, the new order tape was the property of EB brother PB, and that radio station was very popular at the time of many people including EB's siblings and herself,
as far as LE is concerned this case is closed, they dont care what the courts say, they still believe RB committed this crime,
they arn't going to be investigating any other scenario unless there is an admission to the crime by somebody else,
I entirely agree with you, will4u, and with Eyesonly, that at present there is no reliable evidence connecting Bernardo to the Bain disappearance. I discount the items in the car for same reason. However I do think certain leads should be followed-up: i) The statement by Bernardo's ex-girlfriend that she introduced the two. ii) "female U of T student who saw a man on UT Scarb campus frightening her as she made a phone booth call. She wrote a description of him and said he resembled a composite drawing of the Scarborough rapist.". If RB wants case re-opened, these leads sb investigated, along with Sir Raymond property.
Another Q I have: The Bain vehicle in picture posted by Eyesonly shows the vehicle against a downed snowfence. Did LE ever question the locals as to whether that fence had been down prior to the arrival of the Bain car? If not, it begs the question: Did the killer purposely drive into it to gain access to area behind, perhaps to dispose of a body?. How carefully was the area around, and particularly behind, that autobody shop parking area searched?
I have been reading this thread and wonder what happened to JohnPaul? He is no longer a member. Does anyone know?
Apparently the administration banned Johnpaul because he wouldn't verify himself as an "insider".
I have been trying to find him myself with no success.
Great to see new people on here. Please keep the posts going.
From The Western Star, Published Jul 02, 2010, updated: Sep 30, 2017 Lawyer: Bernardo 'probably' murdered Elizabeth Bain | The Western Star
....."Among evidence deemed inadmissible at Baltovich's retrial was testimony from several witnesses, including one of Bernardo's ex-girlfriends. She claimed she introduced Bernardo to Bain about four or five years before her disappearance. The woman was also expected to testify that Bernardo had 'strong feelings of resentment toward a woman who looked a lot like Elizabeth Bain.' "
From reddit: Elizabeth Bain - three possible suspects? [Unresolved Disappearance] : UnresolvedMysteries
"Bernardo ....confessed to at least eight other attacks in and around the same park." [ Colonel Danforth Park, near UT Scarborough].
From Rosie Dimanno, Toronto Star Apr 24, 2008
"Bernardo told police last June he couldn't recall ever meeting Bain, though they attended the same Scarborough U of T campus. The defence, in pre-trial submissions, said it wanted to call a witness who claimed to have briefly introduced Bernardo to Bain five years before her disappearance and that he had "strong feelings" of resentment toward a woman who "looked a lot like Elizabeth Bain;" a restaurant owner who says he saw Bain with a blond man at a restaurant Bernardo had been to in the past; another witness who says he saw Bain arguing with a blond man in a red jeep at a restaurant where Bernardo had been; and a former student who came forward in 2000, telling investigators she had called the police tip line about a week after Bain vanished, reporting a man acting strangely on campus. This witness claims she recognized Bernardo's surname (and, afterwards, photos) after his 1993 arrest, and was able to identify him as the man she'd been out with once on a blind date several years earlier."
Also from same Rosie Dimanno Star article "
"Robert Baltovich was frequently in Elizabeth's car because he was her boyfriend," says defence counsel James Lockyer. "There was no DNA attributable to (Baltovich) found in the interior of the car, where Elizabeth's body had been. That helps put in perspective the lack of significance of failing to find any of Bernardo's DNA in the car." "
Hi Track and welcome to WS.
I'm surprised RD printed what I have underlined 'in the interior of the car ...' - she's a little behind by not keeping up with the RB lawsuit against TPS.
To recap - RB was convicted on the TPS theory that RB killed her in the park, left her buried there in some fashion and then returned to retrieve her body later using her own car to transport her somewhere. This was the only way TPS could possibly convict RB.
RB was later granted a new trial which the Crown declined to proceed with, making RB an innocent man. RB launched a lawsuit against TPS for wrongful prosecution and during the disclosure for this lawsuit, RB's lawyers discovered a page where the crime scene investigators told TPS from the beginning that their theory did not work - no body had ever been in EB's car, especially one that had been buried before being placed in the car.
This caused RB to amend his lawsuit - one can see how this implicates the Crown as well as TPS for wrongful prosecution. The lawsuit then dragged on due to this amendment - not sure if it has been settled yet.
The RB lawsuit details are not here, but can be found.
""RB's lawyers discovered a page where the crime scene investigators told TPS from the beginning that their theory did not work - no body had ever been in EB's car, especially one that had been buried before being placed in the car.""
Hey Woodland, just need to correct something you wrote in the above quotes.
1) there was never any theory or suggestion by the TPS or the Crown that the body had ever been buried in the valley/park prior to being moved. (Not that it was ever there in the first place but that was the theory they went on)
Their theory was that the body had been concealed somewhere in the valley/park, possibly wrapped, but never any mention of being buried.
2) the CFS told one of the lead Detectives what the forensics of the car meant in regards to their theory, which obviously did not match up.
However they never said that "no body" had ever been in the car. In fact the CFS forensics can be used to place the body in the car up to 3hrs after death and because the blood was still reddish and not more brownish, that would put the placement of the body in the car on the Tuesday night, the night she disappeared, as there has never been any suggestion by the TPS or the Crown that she was killed on any other night than the Tuesday night.
To place the body in the car for the Friday morning as per their theory to coincide with the forensics, it would have meant that she was still alive until sometime late Thursday night to early Friday a.m. which no one has suggested happened.
Hope everyone is having a Merry Christmas today.
My phrase 'left her buried there in some fashion' did reflect my uncertainty in what the original LE/Crown theory was exactly.
Left her concealed in some fashion would have been better.
Will post a link to an article outlining what has been learned since the original conviction.