BILL COSBY SENTENCED 3 TO 10 YEARS FOR SEXUAL ASSAULT
JOIN THE WEBSLEUTHS DISCUSSION

CANADA Canada - Lee Kirk, 15, & Kathy Potter, 13, Toronto, 1 Oct 1971

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by CrimeSolver, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    http://www.opp.ca/Intranetdev/groups/public/documents/investigative/opp_000947.pdf

    Sadly, very little to go on, but I wonder if these murders were committed by the same person responsible for this: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46963
    A double murder is rare in itself, but to have two double murders with victims who are the same gender and similar ages, within a two-year time period and in the same general vicinity, must be especially uncommon. The locations where the two duos were "snatched" are only about 6 km distant (Yonge/Finch and Keele/Wilson), not a significant distance in a large city. The only noticeable difference I see between the two cases, on the surface at least, is that, in this case, the killer drove the girls some distance to where he disposed of them, whereas in the later case he left their bodies in-situ. Because of its multi-jurisdictional nature, this case is being handled by the provincial police. I wonder if the OPP has compared notes with the Toronto police over these two cases. Certainly the other case seems to have more hope of ever being solved.

    Incidentally, Rochelle Crescent is misspelled in the bulletin above. "Rochell" does not exist. Rochelle Cres. is about 5 km east of where the girls were dropped off and last seen.
     
  2. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    229
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The other two victims you refer to in your post are 17 year old Donna STEARNE and 17 year old Wendy Ann TEDFORD, whose case is discussed at the link you provided.


    You are right about a "double" murder being somewhat rare, but there are quite a few such crimes discussed on these threads.


    Whether or not one could make connections just because they were a "double" is debatable. I would tend to think that rather than it being a "signature" or modus operandi (MO), abducting and killing two victims together is more likely something that a killer would do to heighten his thrill. He might see it as a challenge, or he might just decide to take a chance because he wants one of the victims and his sense of caution (taking on two) might be lowered for some reason.


    You do, however, point out some similarities which seem more than just coincidence. And the taking of two victims might tend to indicate a few things, like their killer is either very powerful, or very persuasive - or both.
     
  3. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thanks for you input, Richard. I agree a connection between the cases is uncertain. But this type of thing doesn't happen too often in Toronto. In fact, I don't think there has been a double murder of girls in this city in the 35 years since. Of course, back then carefree hitchhiking was a popular way for teen girls to get from A to B, so the pickings for perverts and killers were abundant.

    It just occurred to me that there was an unsolved disappearance of a teen girl from the Yorkdale area (a highway off-ramp I believe) in the mid to late seventies that might be related to the Tedford/Stearne case, and/or this one. I don't remember any details, but I'll see if I can scare up a link.
     
  4. KarlK

    KarlK New Member

    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Or he doesn't want to leave any witness behind.
     
  5. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I wonder if these girls were shot. If so, it's a long shot, but ballistics evidence might link the bullets to the gun in the Tedford/Stearne case.
     
  6. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I have looked at newspaper articles from the days, weeks, and years after the crime (The most comprehensive and interesting article about the case in the Toronto Star archives is from October 7th, 1976), and will post some relevant facts and theories contained therein. My editorializing comments (just brainstorming) to these facts are italicized:

    -Kirk and Potter were strangled with a ligature, so that avenue of potentially tying this crime to the other, which I postulated above, is closed. One of the girls had also been beaten. As an aside, an interesting correlation - that might mean nothing - between this and the Tedford/Stearne case is that neither set of victims was sexually assaulted, and both were found fully clothed. Perhaps more intriguing is that the girls were found in a conspicuous side-by-side position, which is how, I believe, Tedford and Stearne were discovered in 1973. Police found this careful positioning reminiscent of a motorcycle gang killing.

    -Examination of the girls' stomach contents indicate they were murdered within three hours of their last meal, which occurred between 5 and 6 pm on October 1st, 1971.

    -Police at the time believed the killer(s) picked them up hitchhiking. They suspected the girls may have used the money given them by their foster home supervisor for bus tickets for cigarettes, because found on one girl's body was a pack of Export A's with four cigarettes missing.

    -Their bodies were found in a gravel pit "3 miles north of Liverpool Rd./401", so somewhere around Taunton Rd. and Brock Rd. Looking at GoogleMaps, there is something that appears like it might be a gravel pit southwest of the Taunton/Brock intersection, but who knows?

    -"Tests conducted at the Centre for Forensic Sciences showed flecks of auto body paint in colours...(orange, yellow, red, and pale green)...most likely used by youthful hotrodders. Light engine oil and grease were also found on the girls' clothing, (hands), and on the soles of their shoes...Also found were round blobs of metal consistent with welding". These discoveries led police to theorize the girls were killed at a garage, auto body shop, or general car repair shop, or at a motorcycle or car club. Or they thought the girls might have been transported in the back of a van or truck. Police at the time appealed for the public's help in locating such a site.
    Investigators were stymied by the discovery of tiny crystals on the sole of Potter's foot. Tests determined they were composed of silicon, aluminum, iron, and titanium, but could not conclude their origin. My question is, if the girls were found fully clothed, and we assume they were not sexually assaulted, and thus never naked in the presence of their killer(s), of what importance are crystals on one of the girls' (bare?) feet? I guess they're just trying to cover all the bases.
    Further tests on the clothing showed both girls had bled, and the direction of some of the stains indicate they were standing up at the time. There were also soil stains indicating the girls may have been dragged. Blood tests "of both girls showed no signs of alcohol, carbon monoxide, barbiturates, sleeping pills, or compounds such as aspirin"

    -On the clothing of both girls were found grey, wavy hairs between 1 and 5 inches. Have these hairs been DNA tested in the meantime (I assume they're still in evidence)?

    -Police speculated the murderer would have belonged to one of four categories:
    ~Someone known to the girls.
    ~Sexual pervert, although there was no evidence of sexual attack.
    ~Someone trying to prove his mettle to his buddies.
    ~A motorcycle gang initiation ritual.


    As part of their investigation, police questioned 225 known perverts, and took over 2,000 statements from people in the area where the girls were last seen.
     
  7. KarlK

    KarlK New Member

    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would tend to think that sex murders involving two victims at once is indeed very rare even in cities the size of Toronto (over 5 million according to Wiki) but I could be wrong. However I do agree with Richard that statistically, events happening a few miles apart in a densely populated area is not in itself an indication that two such occurrences are related. In a small town or rural area a few miles can be considered the "same area" due to similar population profile and limited suspect pool but in a large city the same distance can be worlds apart.
     
  8. KarlK

    KarlK New Member

    Messages:
    1,739
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Didn't the media report autopsy results at the time?
     
  9. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    ^KarlK, it wasn't until after I wrote that single-question post that I managed to do more intensive media research on the case (read post #6). Up to that point, I was relying on only Google-cached data on the case, which is negligible. As it happens, the girls were strangled with a ligature, not shot.
     
  10. Anubis

    Anubis New Member

    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Titanium alloy (the crystals found on one of the girls feet) are a clear indicator that they were in an autobody/motorcycle workshop. Obviously at some point, she had taken her shoes off and just because they were found clothed, doesn't mean they had not undressed as they could have gotten dressed again. I hope a rape test was a the very least performed. Motor oil on their hands indicates they might have been on all fours at some point. One girl beaten, both girls strangled. Hmm, was the older one the one that was beaten?

    So what we have is the following:

    1. No evidence girls rode the bus
    2. Evidence indicating they were hitchhiking
    3. Evidence of an older killer (grey hairs)
    4. Evidence killer worked in an autobody/motorcycle shop (my money is on autobody)

    I wonder if they have gone back and done any DNA residue testing on the clothing. How far did they have to travel (from the LKP to Richmond Hill). Where were the bodies found in conjunction with the LKP?
     
  11. Lyn1001

    Lyn1001 In constant need of a nap

    Messages:
    1,593
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't post much, more of a lurker. But I did want to point out that grey hair may not mean someone older. I know a number of people who had some grey hair, or were even fully grey, by their mid-twenties. Of course, I think that would make someone stand out all the more.
     
  12. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thanks for the interest and input, Anubis and Lyn1001. It would be nice if someone privy to the investigation would stop in and answer some of our questions. After all these years, I don't see any reason to keep anything close to the vest, but what do I know?
     
  13. HisFox

    HisFox New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello, I knew Lee Kirk when she was at a foster home in Rexdale. We spent many hours together as kids and I recall her being very protective of me. She was a tough girl. If anyone one was being picked on or bullied, Lee would jump in to fight the battle! I also remember her waiting in the driveway of her foster home on saturday mornings waiting for her dad. She would tell me he was bringing her a bike but he never showed up. She left Rexdale for a new foster home not long before she was murdered. I've often wondered, in my older years, if this case would ever be solved. Thank you for keeping it alive. :)
     
  14. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Thank you for sharing your memories, HisFox.:)
     
  15. marycarney

    marycarney Inactive

    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BBM: That breaks my heart............
     
  16. CrimeSolver

    CrimeSolver Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Pictures of the victims, since the OPP page is no longer available:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Snively

    Snively Member

    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
  18. canadian57

    canadian57 New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    hi i knew Cathy we live in a home together as roommates on Huntley street...i was eventually sent to a home on broadview and she a catholic home from what i was told..i seen a newspaper by chance with both Cathy and Lee on front page, i was 12 at time..and still to this day i hope and pray they solve these murders..i still remember Cathy..i did not know Lee...but i imagine how horrible it must of been at 13 years of age and even 15...i pray one day these murder's are solved they deserve that. ....
     
  19. MMAjunkie

    MMAjunkie New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    update later
     
  20. MMAjunkie

    MMAjunkie New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    So I said I'd update this so I will. Cold Case came by my house to talk to my dad about his brother (deceased 2003) and get a dna swab from him. in regards to these murders as well as the 82 Toronto murder of Christine Prince. admittedly i was a little checked out when she explained the connection to that one but in regards to this my dad explained he would have had a job in rust proofing and also stayed in the same group home as the girls
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice