Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #17

[Optics]

DBM

 

[srper2]

It's definitely unconfirmed. However, it did spark discussion about whether the firearms could have been purchased legally, and now after that discussion it seems more likely to us that Kam actually did have a gun license and they were.



That was from the original interview.

Woops! (I realised after I posted!) I expect they will have another one down the track unfortunately

 

[MistyWaters]

I hope I am not reposting but haven't seen this posted myself, apparently 60 minutes has been with BS's dad again, and there is a snip of him saying "his troubles are over" taken from an interview after he was informed BS was deceased. So our guess that 60 minutes were still hanging around and that he was signed for an exclusive seem to have been correct. CTV National News: B.C. suspects died by suicide

I think there was only the one interview. 60 minutes Australia was with him until the bodies were found however it was aired prior to the BC RCMP PC a few days later announcing the cause of death was suicide, two guns found.

"It hurts a lot": Father of BC murder suspect says he sympathizes with victims' families (VIDEO) | News

 

[Esprite]

Quote from AS -

“He said he sent the book to reporters to highlight how a “broken system” has shaped him and his son.

“My son and I have been treated like footballs. It’s time for some truth,” he said...”
B.C. murder suspect’s father reveals details of troubled life in book


Whenever anybody refers to “the system” in regard to a child being treated like “a football”, it almost always refers to child placements arranged through Child Protection Services. In the Province of B.C. The definition of a child is someone under the age of 19 although other links indicate a child does have right to choose to “leave home” if they’re financially supported.

This indicates to me there’s a good chance there was prior Family Court intervention and so the grandmother was appointed custodial guardian as the best option, as the mother reportedly was fearful of his angry outbursts and along with the father’s harassment convictions, mental health and homelessness situation. It also may be the reason why B left under the guise of seeking employment, so the grandmother agreed with his plan.

More BC family law here -
If your parents separate, can you decide who you want to live with? | LSS Family Law

Must also wonder why supervised visits with Bryer never happened. A court-appointed social worker can arrange this even if the non-custodial parent is homeless. Extenuating circumstances, such as a history of violence against the custodial parent, which would put the child's psychological well-being at risk, would have a direct impact on the decision.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Woops! (I realised after I posted!) I expect they will have another one down the track unfortunately

Maybe. I imagine the families recently got the remains and probably have to figure out what to do with them, whether to have any kind of funeral thing, what that entails in terms of various animosities, etc. so I doubt it's a priority right now.

 

[Zella]

Woops! (I realised after I posted!) I expect they will have another one down the track unfortunately

I certainly wouldn't rule out another interview eventually happening, but I strongly suspect that Bryer's father is in no mood to talk now.

I know he had issues, but I think he genuinely loved his son and was trying to process what would have been a terrible shock. I've never been in his situation, but I know the uncertainty of not knowing and the initial stages of grief can have sort of a nightmare-like quality to them. You keep waiting for when you wake up and realize none of it happened, and that never comes. Eventually, you accept it as a new normal, but it takes awhile. I think he was in that stage of still feeling like it was all unreal when he was giving interviews.

However, I think that video--the sight of his son, probably bug-bitten beyond belief and looking pretty run-down after a few days in the harsh Manitoba woods, shortly before he committed suicide, speaking from beyond the grave, saying goodbye and indicating what he wants done with his corpse--was a horrific jolt of reality that may very well have shut down any impulse he has to talk to anybody right now.

 

[NJSleuth91]

However, I think that video--the sight of his son, probably bug-bitten beyond belief and looking pretty run-down after a few days in the harsh Manitoba woods

SBM

I was morbidly wondering about this...I wonder if they brought any mosquito netting or what other equipment they had. And what sort of condition they were in prior to committing suicide. Like according to what I've read, there are bugs out there that fly off with a visible chunk of flesh after they bite you, and your eyes can swell shut from bites. Plus, apparently most of the water around there is contaminated with giardia.

 

[Zella]

SBM

I was morbidly wondering about this...I wonder if they brought any mosquito netting or what other equipment they had. And what sort of condition they were in prior to committing suicide. Like according to what I've read, there are bugs out there that fly off with a visible chunk of flesh after they bite you, and your eyes can swell shut from bites. Plus, apparently most of the water around there is contaminated with giardia.

Yeah I've not posted about it, but as soon as I heard there was a video, my first thought was "How visibly bug-bitten were they?" The footage I've seen of the bugs out there is the stuff of nightmares. I would be really surprised if they didn't look like they'd been eaten alive by the insects alone.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah I've not posted about it, but as soon as I heard there was a video, my first thought was "How visibly bug-bitten were they?" The footage I've seen of the bugs out there is the stuff of nightmares. I would be really surprised if they didn't look like they'd been eaten alive by the insects alone.

Well if they were any kind of survivalists they would have brought mosquito netting...however, it's these guys, so my guess is they didn't.

I got eaten alive by mosquitoes in Costa Rica and I had like 100 bites on each leg, half of them bleeding, it took weeks after I got home for them to stop itching, and the scars lasted for about a year (weirdly enough they didn't really bite my face though)...and even that doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as where they were, since there are also blackflies and other things.

 

[Optics]

Must also wonder why supervised visits with Bryer never happened. A court-appointed social worker can arrange this even if the non-custodial parent is homeless. Extenuating circumstances, such as a history of violence against the custodial parent, which would put the child's psychological well-being at risk, would have a direct impact on the decision.

I feel there are a few misconceptions with the general public. Dad & Mom split in 2005 when Bryer was barely 5 years. I've read mom had a drug problem, other times I've read she had an affair, and also read wife thought he was 'schitzophrenic, whatever it's a moot point now. Dad hasn't always been homeless - I think it's only been that way in the past year or 6 months. If I understand the court docs - the harassment was toward her boyfriend. So I think there were restraining orders against Alan. He was kept from seeing his only child for 8 years of his life. Then Bryer actually lived with dad for a a few months, I figure 2 months in summer. Bryer returned back to PA to his grandmother's place. However, as a dad Alan has stated he would drive up to PA to visit Bryer every two weeks. The fact is it doesn't appear that Bryer had a good relationship with his mother either who should have been the main caregiver to him in his growing years. Someone dropped the ball, and I certainly don't feel it is Alan S. singularly who did that. During the time they would have divorced, the courts as they often do will favor the mother as the custodian of a child. We all know in some cases that isn't always the best court decision either. In essence, it seems Alan only got the chance to have a relationship with his son in the past 3 or so years. Hardly any time to focus his child in a better direction.

 

[Zella]

Well if they were any kind of survivalists they would have brought mosquito netting...however, it's these guys, so my guess is they didn't.

I got eaten alive by mosquitoes in Costa Rica and I had like 100 bites on each leg, half of them bleeding, it took weeks after I got home for them to stop itching, and the scars lasted for about a year (weirdly enough they didn't really bite my face though)...and even that doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as where they were, since there are also blackflies and other things.

Maybe some of our BC folks can answer this, but I wonder if mosquito netting wouldn't be needed for camping in British Columbia? I'm assuming probably not, and I think the drive to Manitoba was pretty random, so I bet they didn't have any netting.

Hmm Maybe that's what they were looking for in the hardware store?

I live in the Ozarks, and being eaten alive by ticks and chiggers is an every summer thing. Like hundreds of bites--the chiggers are so bad, you'll scratch them til you bleed. That being said, I cannot fathom insect conditions like what I have read about in Manitoba or seen in the video footage from there.

 

[sprucetip]

Me too; I agree with you. Its a weird dynamic when everyone wants to be a little part of the picture. Reminds me of when people spend a week's vacation in NYC, where I lived for 41 years. One week of vacay there and they're an expert. Similarly, when a high-profile case like this occurs, everybody pipes up that "they were there".

It really is weird! People want to be a part of the story, but why? Their moment of ‘fame’? It’s so odd.

 

[sprucetip]

Yay! We're back! Thank You Websleuths Tricia and all Staff, Admin, Moderators et. al.

Yes! Thanks. Although I got a surprising amount of work done at work today!

 

[NJSleuth91]

Maybe some of our BC folks can answer this, but I wonder if mosquito netting wouldn't be needed for camping in British Columbia? I'm assuming probably not, and I think the drive to Manitoba was pretty random, so I bet they didn't have any netting.

Hmm Maybe that's what they were looking for in the hardware store?

I live in the Ozarks, and being eaten alive by ticks and chiggers is an every summer thing. Like hundreds of bites--the chiggers are so bad, you'll scratch them til you bleed. That being said, I cannot fathom insect conditions like what I have read about in Manitoba or seen in the video footage from there.

So I was just looking up bugs in the northern regions, and I'm just going to leave this here:

“It is the talk of the town when the Arctic mosquitoes are out,” says Lauren Culler, a postdoctoral researcher who studies insects in Greenland for Dartmouth College’s Institute of Arctic Studies. “There aren’t a lot of animals for them to eat in the Arctic, so when they finally find one, they are ferocious. They are relentless. They do not stop. They just keep going after you.”

Arctic mosquitoes typically emerge all at once in massive swarms. (That’s one reason they are jokingly called “Alaska’s state bird.”) It can be hard to overstate the scale. One of Culler’s colleagues in Greenland was assaulted by more than 100 mosquitoes at once. And the bugs in that region were mild for the Arctic. “You can be completely covered in a matter of seconds,” Culler says.

Honestly if these two actually planned this, they are the dumbest people alive (well...dead). I can't imagine actually planning to go to this area and trying to hide out long-term, without doing basic research and coming across this kind of thing and being like "nope!"

And they couldn't even build a fire or anything to keep the mosquitoes away, because it would attract searchers.

I also wondered if that's what they were looking for in the store.

Also, do you think it's possible they had no idea where they even were? If they weren't using their phones that means no GPS. I know our map-reading skills as a society have sort of fallen by the wayside (or never actually been acquired in the first place, probably, for most young people). My husband and I can't even navigate around New Jersey without GPS, LOL. It's totally possible they ended up there by accident and basically got trapped in a corner.

EDIT: OMG: Horrifying Alaskan Mosquito Swarm Engulfs Scientists Who Record 'God-Awful' Phenomenon (VIDEO) | HuffPost

The region’s “skeeters,” as they are commonly called, have been known to drive the direction of caribou herds and feed on animals as diverse as rabbits and frogs. (Krause told the Dispatch that the bugs are so ruthless, he once saw a pair of mosquitoes feeding from a horsefly.)

In videos and photos taken by Krause and his colleagues, the vast number of mosquitoes is compounded by the sheer size of each insect. On Facebook, friends of the researcher noted the images were so terrifying, they appeared photoshopped.

 

[sprucetip]

Maybe some of our BC folks can answer this, but I wonder if mosquito netting wouldn't be needed for camping in British Columbia? I'm assuming probably not, and I think the drive to Manitoba was pretty random, so I bet they didn't have any netting.

Hmm Maybe that's what they were looking for in the hardware store?

I live in the Ozarks, and being eaten alive by ticks and chiggers is an every summer thing. Like hundreds of bites--the chiggers are so bad, you'll scratch them til you bleed. That being said, I cannot fathom insect conditions like what I have read about in Manitoba or seen in the video footage from there.

I’ve experienced the northern black flies and no-seeums plenty and ticks and chiggers sound way worse!

Good point about the big nets, maybe that is what they were looking for. Or stole?

 

[sprucetip]

So I was just looking up bugs in the northern regions, and I'm just going to leave this here:
View attachment 199550

Honestly if these two actually planned this, they are the dumbest people alive (well...dead). I can't imagine actually planning to go to this area and trying to hide out long-term, without doing basic research and coming across this kind of thing and being like "nope!"

And they couldn't even build a fire or anything to keep the mosquitoes away, because it would attract searchers.

I also wondered if that's what they were looking for in the store.

Also, do you think it's possible they had no idea where they even were? If they weren't using their phones that means no GPS. I know our map-reading skills as a society have sort of fallen by the wayside (or never actually been acquired in the first place, probably, for most young people). My husband and I can't even navigate around New Jersey without GPS, LOL. It's totally possible they ended up there by accident and basically got trapped in a corner.

There’s a reason they say the bugs in the north drive animals like caribou crazy!

But yeah, it all points to zero planning. To me anyways. I can see fleeing to the north, the Yukon, NWT, I could easily see both as an ‘easy’ place to escape and hide. Not a lot of people, those in more remote rural areas are more likely to not see tv or news. But my god, to go to northern Manitoba and try to hide in the bush where there are POLAR BEARS...! Even having guns, no way. No thank you. You don’t mess around with them. Grizzlies and black bears, usually no big deal. But polar bears will stalk and try to kill you 100% of the time.

No one would plan that, no way.

I live in the woods and face bears regularly but the thought of them being out there trying to survive in polar bear land is terrifying.

 

[Zella]

Also, do you think it's possible they had no idea where they even were? If they weren't using their phones that means no GPS. I know our map-reading skills as a society have sort of fallen by the wayside (or never actually been acquired in the first place, probably, for most young people). My husband and I can't even navigate around New Jersey without GPS, LOL. It's totally possible they ended up there by accident and basically got trapped in a corner.

SBM I've seen speculation that they may have turned off on that road, not realizing it literally ended in the middle of nowhere. My guess is that they were just sort of aimlessly driving with no real destination in mind--just some general guidelines, like stay in the north, where it is more rural and remote. In the beginning, as much progress as they were making, I had wondered if they were aiming for the Atlantic Ocean as some weird goal after they'd started closed to the Pacific. But I'm not even sure they were that goal-oriented about it, frankly. It was a joyride (though judging by their facial expressions in that surveillance footage, no longer very joyful)--until it wasn't because there was nowhere else to drive.

I’ve experienced the northern black flies and no-seeums plenty and ticks and chiggers sound way worse!

Good point about the big nets, maybe that is what they were looking for. Or stole?

Wait, does Canada not have ticks? I know chiggers are more of an American Southern thing. But I just assumed everywhere had ticks. . . .

 

[NJSleuth91]

There’s a reason they say the bugs in the north drive animals like caribou crazy!

But yeah, it all points to zero planning. To me anyways. I can see fleeing to the north, the Yukon, NWT, I could easily see both as an ‘easy’ place to escape and hide. Not a lot of people, those in more remote rural areas are more likely to not see tv or news. But my god, to go to northern Manitoba and try to hide in the bush where there are POLAR BEARS...! Even having guns, no way. No thank you. You don’t mess around with them. Grizzlies and black bears, usually no big deal. But polar bears will stalk and try to kill you 100% of the time.

No one would plan that, no way.

Yeah I mean, I've mocked these guys' stupidity a lot on here, but even I don't think they were THAT stupid, that they would actually choose to hide out there, had this been planned.

 

[Esprite]

I feel there are a few misconceptions with the general public. Dad & Mom split in 2005 when Bryer was barely 5 years. I've read mom had a drug problem, other times I've read she had an affair, and also read wife thought he was 'schitzophrenic, whatever it's a moot point now. Dad hasn't always been homeless - I think it's only been that way in the past year or 6 months. If I understand the court docs - the harassment was toward her boyfriend. So I think there were restraining orders against Alan. He was kept from seeing his only child for 8 years of his life. Then Bryer actually lived with dad for a a few months, I figure 2 months in summer. Bryer returned back to PA to his grandmother's place. However, as a dad Alan has stated he would drive up to PA to visit Bryer every two weeks. The fact is it doesn't appear that Bryer had a good relationship with his mother either who should have been the main caregiver to him in his growing years. Someone dropped the ball, and I certainly don't feel it is Alan S. singularly who did that. During the time they would have divorced, the courts as they often do will favor the mother as the custodian of a child. We all know in some cases that isn't always the best court decision either. In essence, it seems Alan only got the chance to have a relationship with his son in the past 3 or so years. Hardly any time to focus his child in a better direction.

With all due respect, in my experience with child custody issues, what we think, and what is actual fact are often two completely different things. I'm not arguing that AS didn't earn the right to reconnect with his son recently; however, the family court system will usually allow supervised visits with a young child, unless there are circumstances that put the child's safety and well-being at risk, whether physical or psychological. Bryer certainly had family support from his mother and grandmother over those years. If that wasn't happening, then he would have become a ward of the court. It seems that AS cleaned up his act, and did his best for his son in recent years, and he has my deepest sympathies now. This does not mean that the past isn't coming back to haunt him.

 

[sprucetip]

SBM I've seen speculation that they may have turned off on that road, not realizing it literally ended in the middle of nowhere. My guess is that they were just sort of aimlessly driving with no real destination in mind--just some general guidelines, like stay in the north, where it is more rural and remote. In the beginning, as much progress as they were making, I had wondered if they were aiming for the Atlantic Ocean as some weird goal after they'd started closed to the Pacific. But I'm not even sure they were that goal-oriented about it, frankly. It was a joyride (though judging by their facial expressions in that surveillance footage, no longer very joyful)--until it wasn't because there was nowhere else to drive.


Wait, does Canada not have ticks? I know chiggers are more of an American Southern thing. But I just assumed everywhere had ticks. . . .

We have ticks in the south, none up north. Thank god, I’d rather deal with black flies.